Tongue Speaker's Survey

[CS1]

I was referring to his previous testimony of wonderment in another thread when the Holy Spirit fell on him long after he had been a believer in Jesus Christ. That was when he spoke in tongue, even though he had been asking for that gift before that incident......

So I said he was following tongues as signs and wonders. That is not the same thing as following the Holy Spirit or Jesus.[/COLOR]



I had quoted scripture in how God the Father wants us to honor Him by... and those led by the Spirit will be doing that.

Address the scripture in the OP you had replied to if you believe I am applying them in the wrong way. I pray you will ear His words if not for the first time in how God the Father has shown His will in the only way to honor Him so as to call sinners away from their spirits and worship of spirits to come to Him by the only way of the Son in being reconciled to the Father by.

i'm sorry I did not see it that way you said "Those led by the Holy Spirit would not be pro Holy Spirit, but pro Jesus. He is the Bridegroom after all."

I would be very careful in speaking about the Holy Spirit and not to suggest of a lower status. There is nothing that says that in the Bible Jesus never spoke lowly of the Holy Spirit Did not Jesus says speaking ill of the Holy Spirit was a sin ? your over eagerness to try an prove tongues is of the devil or demon spirit has made you forget to be reverent to the Spirit of God.

 

[shrume]

Is that intended? The small "s" in spirit at the end of your statement in the quote?

Whether you choose to capitalize it or not, it is the gift of Holy Spirit.

Anyway, there are some contentions here.

Of course there are... I have come to expect nothing less from you...

Either the Holy Spirit is manifesting the tongues or you are. Either the Holy Spirit is praying or you are.

When YOU pray in the Spirit, YOU are manifesting the gift of Holy Spirit by speaking in tongues.

If you are confusing this reference below with what you are saying...

1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]12 [/SUP]Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.[SUP]14 [/SUP]For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.[SUP]15 [/SUP]What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

That in context is about Paul instructing those that speak in tongues that they pray while they are speaking in tongues as manifested by the Holy Spirit that someone else may interpret the tongue he is saying by the Holy Spirit.

You continue to be wrong. They ARE PRAYING while they are speaking in tongues. Speaking in tongues IS praying in the Spirit.

It is his spirit that is praying that someone else will interpret the tongue, not the Holy Spirit.

That is wrong, Enow. PLEASE READ THIS. LOOK AT THE WORDS:

1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

13) Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

Paul is praying while speaking in tongues as manifested by the Holy Spirit that someone else will interpret the tongue so that he may understand that tongue for that tongue to be fruitful even to himself.

No, Paul is edified whether he interprets or not (1 Cor 14:4). If Paul chose to interpret, then the church would be edified. And if Paul was speaking in tongues in public, he would have interpreted.

So while you took Paul praying in tongue as is, without taking all the other verses in context, I read it as Paul is praying for himself while he is speaking in tongues as manifested by the Holy Spirit that someone else may interpret the tongue.

You continue, time after time, to read it wrong.

Tongues was never meant to be inferred as a prayer language of the Holy Spirit's or yours.

That is absolutely false. Praying in the Spirit is the person speaking in tongues. In Ephesian Paul exhorts us to always be praying in the spirit (Eph 6:18).

No... Paul was not ever really teaching that.

That is precisely what Paul was teaching.

I disagree with you.

Really?

Paul prayed that someone else may interpret that tongue for that tongue to be understood and thus fruitful to himself as a tongue speaker.

Again, LOOK AT THE ACTUAL WORDS:

1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

13) Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

You have your beliefs so firmly lodged in your head that you can't read the words that are written on the pages of scripture.

Why when Paul say if any are zealous for spiritual gift, to seek the gift of prophesy. you bold that part of the verse in ignoring what Paul was saying below as I underlined it for you to see for why believers are to seek the gift of prophesy.

1 Cor 14:
4) He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

When a person prophesies, he edifies the church. When a person speaks in tongues AND INTERPRETS, he edifies the church. Speaking in tongues out loud in the church without interpretation does no one any good except for the person speaking. When a person speaks in tongues to himself, he edifies himself, he gives thanks well, he magnifies god, he is speaking the wonderful works of God, he is speaking TO GOD divine secrets ("mysteries").

Verse 2 & verse 17 is why Paul was telling people to seek the gift of prophesy when zealous for spiritual gifts but only the Lord can help you see that in context of what Paul is saying from verse 1.

I fully understand why God wants Christians to seek to excel at prophesying. I also understand that God wants all Christians to speak in tongues in prayer. You completely miss it.

1 Corinthians 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

Amen!

And don't forget these:

1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

1 Cor 14:
39) Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

Eph 6:
18) Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Jude 1:
20) But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

And here's something we have not covered before:

1 Thess 5:
17) Pray without ceasing.

You CANNOT pray without ceasing in your life if all you do is pray in your known language. But a person CAN speak in tongues in almost every situation because your "understanding is unfruitful". A person can be doing almost anything and be speaking in tongues at the same time.

 

[CherieR]

My experience is that I wanted the Holy Spirit and I was not seeking the gift of tongues but only the Holy Spirit. I had someone lay hands on me and pray for me that I might receive or be baptized with the Holy Spirit. I can't remember if he prayed for me to be baptized with the Holy Spirit or Receive the Holy Spirit or be filled with the Spirit but it really does not matter what wording he said. I began to feel super hot( as if I was on fire, but not in a bad way) and I started to fall but I caught a hold of his wife so I didn't fall all the way. I asked Jesus to baptize me with the Holy Spirit and by faith( not by a force coming over me), I spoke in tongues.

 

[Enow]

My experience is that I wanted the Holy Spirit and I was not seeking the gift of tongues but only the Holy Spirit. I had someone lay hands on me and pray for me that I might receive or be baptized with the Holy Spirit. I can't remember if he prayed for me to be baptized with the Holy Spirit or Receive the Holy Spirit or be filled with the Spirit but it really does not matter what wording he said. I began to feel super hot( as if I was on fire, but not in a bad way) and I started to fall but I caught a hold of his wife so I didn't fall all the way. I asked Jesus to baptize me with the Holy Spirit and by faith( not by a force coming over me), I spoke in tongues.

I thank you for sharing, sister, but please understand why I have to discern what has happened to you. I do not doubt that what has happened to you was real, but it cannot be the Holy Spirit.

#1. The Holy Spirit is given to believers by faith in Jesus Christ at their salvation: Galatians 3:14,26, not by a sign of tongues as Paul said tongues do not serve as a sign towards the believers for anything; not as a sign that God is calling you into the ministry and certainly not as a sign that you had received the Holy Spirit and thus you are saved.

1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]22 [/SUP]Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

#2. A lot of saved believers have been misled to believe that they have to ask for the Holy Spirit when Luke 11:9-13 is talking about those who seek Jesus Christ to be saved, thus those that seek shall find.. those that knock, the door shall be opened as Jesus is the door to salvation. Some believers thinks they are saved, but they have to ask for the Holy Spirit when Romans 8:9 says that if any one has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

Romans 8:[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his......[SUP]14 [/SUP]For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.[SUP] 15 [/SUP]For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.[SUP] 16 [/SUP]The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:[SUP]17[/SUP]And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Galatians 3:[SUP]14 [/SUP]That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.....[SUP]26 [/SUP]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

So I believe you had been saved when you first come to & believed in Jesus Christ and that was when you had received the promise of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ at your salvation.

I believe you were misled by those who taught you that you had to ask for the Holy Spirit, thus seeking to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation which was why it was not the Holy Spirit and which was why that tongue is not coming with interpretation nor understood by a foreigner but is vain and profane babbling when mediums and wizards seek familiar spirits in talking by that kind of tongue.

Isaiah 8:[SUP]19 [/SUP]And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

No way would God imitate that kind of tongue which is why the real God's gift of tongues is for speaking unto the people; not being used as a prayer language of the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]20 [/SUP]Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.[SUP]21 [/SUP]In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

Again, I thank you for sharing but there is just cause for my concern as it involves defending the faith in Jesus Christ that it is at our salvation when we are born again of the Spirit and that is when we had received the promise of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ.

Believers do not need a sensational sign in the flesh to feel the Holy Spirit coming into them. That is not receiving the Holy Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ but by a sign the way the world does in receiving other spirits.

John 14:[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

You do not need tongues to pray to God; you can use your own normal tongue to pray to God so that when Jesus answers your known prayers to God, you can give the Father thanks in Jesus's name for known answers to prayer.

John 14:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.....[SUP]13 [/SUP]And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.[SUP] 14 [/SUP]If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

1 Thessalonians 5:[SUP]17 [/SUP]Pray without ceasing.[SUP]18 [/SUP]In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

 

[Enow]

i'm sorry I did not see it that way you said "Those led by the Holy Spirit would not be pro Holy Spirit, but pro Jesus. He is the Bridegroom after all."

I would be very careful in speaking about the Holy Spirit and not to suggest of a lower status. There is nothing that says that in the Bible Jesus never spoke lowly of the Holy Spirit Did not Jesus says speaking ill of the Holy Spirit was a sin ? your over eagerness to try an prove tongues is of the devil or demon spirit has made you forget to be reverent to the Spirit of God.

Where is my reply to your post in this thread? I am not repeating my reply again. Whether it is you or another mod, deleting my post does not edify me nor correct me at all. Deleting my post is like saying it cannot be reproved nor refuted because it has no answer for it when it is the truth.

So whoever is deleting my posts.... to CS1 or to whomever I am replying to... if you cannot defend your side of the discussion, then leave it for others that may be able to. Otherwise, you are conceding indirectly that I am right and you are wrong and you have no choice but to delete my post just because you do not have an answer for it.

If I am so wrong... then prove it by the scripture, but you come across by deleting my post that you know I am right and now you wish to with hold the truth in unrighteousness from others.

Sorry, CS1. Somebody is deleting my posts, including that one I replied to you for. Not repeating it.

I know better to accuse a mod by name, and since I do not know who actually did it, but a mod, I'll leave it at that. Jesus is still Lord.... even when I get banned unfairly too.

 

[CS1]

Where is my reply to your post in this thread? I am not repeating my reply again. Whether it is you or another mod, deleting my post does not edify me nor correct me at all. Deleting my post is like saying it cannot be reproved nor refuted because it has no answer for it when it is the truth.

So whoever is deleting my posts.... to CS1 or to whomever I am replying to... if you cannot defend your side of the discussion, then leave it for others that may be able to. Otherwise, you are conceding indirectly that I am right and you are wrong and you have no choice but to delete my post just because you do not have an answer for it.

If I am so wrong... then prove it by the scripture, but you come across by deleting my post that you know I am right and now you wish to with hold the truth in unrighteousness from others.

Sorry, CS1. Somebody is deleting my posts, including that one I replied to you for. Not repeating it.

I know better to accuse a mod by name, and since I do not know who actually did it, but a mod, I'll leave it at that. Jesus is still Lord.... even when I get banned unfairly too.

many have provide scriptures from the chapter of 1 cor 12, 13, and 14 and the book of Acts. The post deleted were ones suggestion christian who speak in tongues is of the devil or from a demonic spirit that is opinionated and not true . you have no proof of that and you site pagan religious practices and try to tie that into what the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are in modern day because you do not agree with them. That is not biblical. if you have to get your disapproval of the Gifts of the Holy taught for today from 1 cor chapter 12,13 and 14 and used false pagan practices to prove biblical ones your in error. And you have spoken in away about the Holy Spirit that would concern most bible believing Christians which I warned you about in another post. you continue to say those who hold to the gifts of the Holy Spirit all of them inculding tongues and if they do not use them as you see fit they are not of God. again those here do not have to agree with you and if you are going to insult and call those Christians demonic you are wrong.

as a Mod I have banned you ? Nor am I seeking to do so. you have an issue and it is not with me it is with your speaking very loosely in context to the Spirit of the Living God.

I have added your statement and my response :

Originally Posted by Enow

You mean you follow tongues as signs & wonders rather than Jesus, right? You follow a stranger's voice. Not His voice.

Those led by the Holy Spirit would not be pro Holy Spirit, but pro Jesus. He is the Bridegroom after all.

I'm pro- Holy Spirit and so is the Lord Jesus He is the Lord after all read John chapter 14 & 16.

wow ! I would be very careful how one speaks about the Spirit of the Living God . The Holy Spirit is God and the Lord Jesus would never speak so loosely about the Holy Spirit .

Jesus in John 14 chapter and 16 speaks reverently . To be pro Holy Spirit is to be Pro God and the Lord Jesus was pro Holy Spirit . Very troubling to see such speaking about the Spirit of the Living God.

 

[Enow]

Personally I believe that, that is your opinion of my experience. However, God doesn't give us a snake when we ask for a fish. See Luke 11:11-13.Besides that, before that experience I could not call God Father and be comfortable with it. After that I could. Jesus says How much more will the Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him. See Luke 11:13.

I understand your point of view but do read that reference in context please.

Luke 11:[SUP]9[/SUP]And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.[SUP] 10 [/SUP]For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.[SUP]11 [/SUP]If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?[SUP]12 [/SUP]Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?[SUP]13 [/SUP]If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

So by seeking Jesus Christ... by knocking at the door of Jesus Christ, you will receive the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father at your salvation and when you do, you will not ask for the Holy Spirit because that would be like making the Father look evil as if He did not give you the Holy Spirit when it was promised at your salvation.

Jesus spoke of the born again of the Spirit to Nicodemus as something that happens after His ascension.

John 3:[SUP]12 [/SUP]If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?[SUP] 13 [/SUP]And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.[SUP]14 [/SUP]And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:[SUP]15 [/SUP]That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

He said this promise will come from the Father when He is no longer present with them.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.[SUP]2 [/SUP]In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.[SUP]3 [/SUP]And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.......

Here is Jesus talking about Him leaving them... but He says this about the forever abiding Holy Spirit...

John 14:[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

That is the promise of the forever abiding Holy Spirit to be given by the Father when Jesus had ascended above. He repeats this again.

John 14:[SUP]25 [/SUP]These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.[SUP]26 [/SUP]But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.[SUP] 27 [/SUP]Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

So this promise that comes at our salvation is when Jesus was no longer present with His disciples so that they can share like testimony with other future believers that they had received the promise of the Spirit from the Father by faith in Jesus Christ. That is why the disciples were officially saved at Pentecost and Pentecost is when the birth of the church began.

I am recognizing when the born again of the Spirit was to happen and that was after His ascension; not while Jesus was still physically present with them. Wat had happened in John 20:21-22 was temporary just as the giving of the Holy Spirit was temporary in Matthew 10th chapter where one of them, Judas Iscariot, was not even a believer.

John 6:[SUP]61 [/SUP]When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?[SUP]62 [/SUP]What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?[SUP]63 [/SUP]It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.[SUP]64 [/SUP]But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.[SUP]65 [/SUP]And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

That is why it is the Father that draws all men unto the Son to believe in Him to be saved and that has to happen after His ascension when Jesus was no longer physically present with them for this promise of the born again of the Spirit experience was to happen.

John 6:[SUP]68 [/SUP]Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.[SUP] 69 [/SUP]And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.[SUP]70 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?[SUP]71 [/SUP]He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

So none of His disciples were saved until Pentecost after Jesus had ascended as promised by His very words as to when the born again experience would happen by which all believers would be saved.

John 7:[SUP]8 [/SUP]He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.[SUP]39 [/SUP](But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

 

[shrume]

Since you're double-posting, I figured I would too:

Enow, you are correct that people only get saved once, that the Holy Spirit only comes one time and then permanently indwells a person. People do not need to pray for a second "anointing".

But you're dead wrong to condemn speaking in tongues without interpretation.

 

[CS1]

I understand your point of view but do read that reference in context please.

Luke 11:[SUP]9[/SUP]And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.[SUP] 10 [/SUP]For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.[SUP]11 [/SUP]If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?[SUP]12 [/SUP]Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?[SUP]13 [/SUP]If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

So by seeking Jesus Christ... by knocking at the door of Jesus Christ, you will receive the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father at your salvation and when you do, you will not ask for the Holy Spirit because that would be like making the Father look evil as if He did not give you the Holy Spirit when it was promised at your salvation.

Jesus spoke of the born again of the Spirit to Nicodemus as something that happens after His ascension.

John 3:[SUP]12 [/SUP]If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?[SUP] 13 [/SUP]And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.[SUP]14 [/SUP]And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:[SUP]15 [/SUP]That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

He said this promise will come from the Father when He is no longer present with them.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.[SUP]2 [/SUP]In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.[SUP]3 [/SUP]And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.......

Here is Jesus talking about Him leaving them... but He says this about the forever abiding Holy Spirit...

John 14:[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

That is the promise of the forever abiding Holy Spirit to be given by the Father when Jesus had ascended above. He repeats this again.

John 14:[SUP]25 [/SUP]These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.[SUP]26 [/SUP]But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.[SUP] 27 [/SUP]Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

So this promise that comes at our salvation is when Jesus was no longer present with His disciples so that they can share like testimony with other future believers that they had received the promise of the Spirit from the Father by faith in Jesus Christ. That is why the disciples were officially saved at Pentecost and Pentecost is when the birth of the church began.

I am recognizing when the born again of the Spirit was to happen and that was after His ascension; not while Jesus was still physically present with them. Wat had happened in John 20:21-22 was temporary just as the giving of the Holy Spirit was temporary in Matthew 10th chapter where one of them, Judas Iscariot, was not even a believer.

John 6:[SUP]61 [/SUP]When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?[SUP]62 [/SUP]What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?[SUP]63 [/SUP]It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.[SUP]64 [/SUP]But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.[SUP]65 [/SUP]And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

That is why it is the Father that draws all men unto the Son to believe in Him to be saved and that has to happen after His ascension when Jesus was no longer physically present with them for this promise of the born again of the Spirit experience was to happen.

John 6:[SUP]68 [/SUP]Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.[SUP] 69 [/SUP]And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.[SUP]70 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?[SUP]71 [/SUP]He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

So none of His disciples were saved until Pentecost after Jesus had ascended as promised by His very words as to when the born again experience would happen by which all believers would be saved.

John 7:[SUP]8 [/SUP]He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.[SUP]39 [/SUP](But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

so John 20:22 where is says : Jesus breathed on them " receive the Holy Spirit they were not saved then ?
and When Thomas after seeing Jesus rose from the dead and said " My Lord and My God was not saved then either until Pentecost ?

 

[Enow]

many have provide scriptures from the chapter of 1 cor 12, 13, and 14 and the book of Acts. The post deleted were ones suggestion christian who speak in tongues is of the devil or from a demonic spirit that is opinionated and not true . you have no proof of that and you site pagan religious practices and try to tie that into what the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are in modern day because you do not agree with them. That is not biblical. if you have to get your disapproval of the Gifts of the Holy taught for today from 1 cor chapter 12,13 and 14 and used false pagan practices to prove biblical ones your in error. And you have spoken in away about the Holy Spirit that would concern most bible believing Christians which I warned you about in another post. you continue to say those who hold to the gifts of the Holy Spirit all of them inculding tongues and if they do not use them as you see fit they are not of God. again those here do not have to agree with you and if you are going to insult and call those Christians demonic you are wrong.

as a Mod I have banned you ? Nor am I seeking to do so. you have an issue and it is not with me it is with your speaking very loosely in context to the Spirit of the Living God.

I have added your statement and my response :

Originally Posted by Enow

You mean you follow tongues as signs & wonders rather than Jesus, right? You follow a stranger's voice. Not His voice.

Those led by the Holy Spirit would not be pro Holy Spirit, but pro Jesus. He is the Bridegroom after all.

I'm pro- Holy Spirit and so is the Lord Jesus He is the Lord after all read John chapter 14 & 16.

wow ! I would be very careful how one speaks about the Spirit of the Living God . The Holy Spirit is God and the Lord Jesus would never speak so loosely about the Holy Spirit .

Jesus in John 14 chapter and 16 speaks reverently . To be pro Holy Spirit is to be Pro God and the Lord Jesus was pro Holy Spirit . Very troubling to see such speaking about the Spirit of the Living God.

And what happens when you come across people speaking in that same kind of babbling nonsense but are not believers in Jesus Christ? How do you tell them that they need to believe in Jesus Christ as their Saviour when they seem to think they have the Holy Spirit without believing in Him? I'm stuck there, brother, if I was to take your position that tongues can be used for prayer language when it does not come with interpretation or understood by a foreigner.

You really think God would have you impeded in that way if He used tongues that imitate the supernatural tongue that has been in the world before the real God's gift of tongues had come at Pentecost which was used for speaking unto the people?

 

[shrume]

so John 20:22 where is says : Jesus breathed on them " receive the Holy Spirit they were not saved then ?
and When Thomas after seeing Jesus rose from the dead and said " My Lord and My God was not saved then either until Pentecost ?

I don't believe anyone received the Holy Spirit until the day of Pentecost.

Acts 1:
4) And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5) For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

8) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

The day of Pentecost was the first time it was possible for anyone to be born of the Holy Spirit.

I believe that in John 20:22, Jesus was giving instructions to the disciples about what was to soon happen.

 

[Enow]

so John 20:22 where is says : Jesus breathed on them " receive the Holy Spirit they were not saved then ?
and When Thomas after seeing Jesus rose from the dead and said " My Lord and My God was not saved then either until Pentecost ?

That is what Jesus said, did He not? The Born again of the Spirit will not happen until after He had ascended.. when He was no longer physically present with His disciples as this promise was to be sent from the Father.

 

[shrume]

And what happens when you come across people speaking in that same kind of babbling nonsense but are not believers in Jesus Christ?

Then they aren't speaking in tongues. If a person is not a Christian, he cannot speak in tongues.

How do you tell them that they need to believe in Jesus Christ as their Saviour when they seem to think they have the Holy Spirit without believing in Him?

Why would they think they have the Holy Spirit?

I'm stuck there, brother,

Yes, Enow. You certainly are...

if I was to take your position that tongues can be used for prayer language when it does not come with interpretation or understood by a foreigner.

When a Christian speaks in tongues in public, it must be interpreted so people can understand it. If a Christian wants to speak in tongues but does not want to interpret, he should pray to himself (1 Cor 14:28).

You really think God would have you impeded in that way if He used tongues that imitate the supernatural tongue that has been in the world before the real God's gift of tongues had come at Pentecost which was used for speaking unto the people?

Speaking in tongues without interpreting is not being "impeded". It is prayer to God, it edifies you, you are giving thanks well, you are magnifying God, you are speaking the wonderful works of God, you are edifying yourself.

 

[Enow]

I don't believe anyone received the Holy Spirit until the day of Pentecost.

Acts 1:
4) And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5) For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

8) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

The day of Pentecost was the first time it was possible for anyone to be born of the Holy Spirit.

Thank you for confirming the word.

I believe that in John 20:22, Jesus was giving instructions to the disciples about what was to soon happen.

I can see how you may take it that way, but remember, He did give power & the Holy Spirit to His 12 disciples including Judas Iscariot whom was not a believer in Matthew 10th chapter. So the event in John 20:21-22 was also not the promise sent from the Father at the believer's salvation, but given by Jesus as a temporary indwelling because He was still present with them.

John 20:[SUP]21 [/SUP]Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.[SUP]22 [/SUP]And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: [SUP]23 [/SUP]Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

To be born again of the Spirit is to be born again from above receiving the seal of adoption and our citizenship in Heaven with Christ leading the way as the Firstfruit.

 

[MavundaB]

Amen...Amen...Glory be given to God. He is the way, the truth, and the life.You are blessed.

 

[Enow]

Then they aren't speaking in tongues. If a person is not a Christian, he cannot speak in tongues.


Why would they think they have the Holy Spirit?


Yes, Enow. You certainly are...


When a Christian speaks in tongues in public, it must be interpreted so people can understand it. If a Christian wants to speak in tongues but does not want to interpret, he should pray to himself (1 Cor 14:28).


Speaking in tongues without interpreting is not being "impeded". It is prayer to God, it edifies you, you are giving thanks well, you are magnifying God, you are speaking the wonderful works of God, you are edifying yourself.

One of these days... the Lord may reveal to you people in your congregation that were speaking in tongues that testify of feeling the "Holy Spirit" coming over them and filling them when they spoke in tongues and they would be telling the truth of that experience.. and yet also admit they are not believers in Jesus Christ.

It has happened. Is that a red flag or what?

 

[CS1]

I don't believe anyone received the Holy Spirit until the day of Pentecost.

Acts 1:
4) And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5) For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

8) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

The day of Pentecost was the first time it was possible for anyone to be born of the Holy Spirit.

I believe that in John 20:22, Jesus was giving instructions to the disciples about what was to soon happen.

well I'm not sure that is the case and let me say I could be wrong

if we look at John chapter 20 there are some very important things I would like to point out

1. the Book of John is written from an eye witness account
2. Jesus has ALREADY rose from the dead and is appearing to His disciples
3. Jesus says in verse 21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. and in verse 22 He says : And when he had said this, he breathed on them[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif], and saith unto them, [/FONT]Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]4. the word "Receive" in verse 22 is a verb [/FONT]lambanō which is "[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it" this was not to be understood as at a later time .[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]5. the confession of Thomas after HE seen Jesus was a statement of salvation in verse 28 "[/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]And Thomas answered and said unto him, [/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]My Lord and my God.

[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] note:

that statement by Thomas was one of faith which HE was able to say Jesus was Lord and God. 1cor 12:3 "[/FONT]and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost." and Rom chapter 10: 9-10

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] The Holy Spirit given to them at this time was for salvation what happen in Acts chapter 2 was empowering they were already worshiping God before the manifestation of the Power of the Holy Spirit in Acts chapter 2. 10 days after Jesus taken up and received in a cloud. [/FONT]

 

[CS1]

And what happens when you come across people speaking in that same kind of babbling nonsense but are not believers in Jesus Christ? How do you tell them that they need to believe in Jesus Christ as their Saviour when they seem to think they have the Holy Spirit without believing in Him? I'm stuck there, brother, if I was to take your position that tongues can be used for prayer language when it does not come with interpretation or understood by a foreigner.

You really think God would have you impeded in that way if He used tongues that imitate the supernatural tongue that has been in the world before the real God's gift of tongues had come at Pentecost which was used for speaking unto the people?

the only babbling non-sense is that you find in the demonic book and videos you use to support your claims about the Holy Spirit . God is able to do many thing and that are not in line with human reasoning . your pride has blind you to hate the Gifts of the Holy Spirit that you now even use books of witches to support your position very sad . and yet those who speak in tongues as the word of God teaches in Acts and 1 cor 12,13 and 14 chapter are looking at what is in the bible and God is doing it .

 

[shrume]

Thank you for confirming the word.

I can see how you may take it that way, but remember, He did give power & the Holy Spirit to His 12 disciples including Judas Iscariot whom was not a believer in Matthew 10th chapter. So the event in John 20:21-22 was also not the promise sent from the Father at the believer's salvation, but given by Jesus as a temporary indwelling because He was still present with them.

John 20:[SUP]21 [/SUP]Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.[SUP]22 [/SUP]And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: [SUP]23 [/SUP]Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

To be born again of the Spirit is to be born again from above receiving the seal of adoption and our citizenship in Heaven with Christ leading the way as the Firstfruit.

Isn't it nice to agree (mostly) on something?

 

[CS1]

One of these days... the Lord may reveal to you people in your congregation that were speaking in tongues that testify of feeling the "Holy Spirit" coming over them and filling them when they spoke in tongues and they would be telling the truth of that experience.. and yet also admit they are not believers in Jesus Christ.

It has happened. Is that a red flag or what?

wow what a claim to make about people you do not even know nobody is saved unless you say they are lol