This is the Dividing Line on BDF

[FranC]

Fran

I'm sure you know of those that think good works is what God requires of men. Being a good person rather than admitting one is a sinner and needs saved.

Some Christians get caught in this kind of thinking too. This is why we post that the foundation is built upon the words of the prophets and the cornerstone of the building is the Son of God. The prophets prophesied of Him to come. After the foundation..we build according to Kingdom law. Following the Spirit.

This I admit is even new thinking to me...concerning kingdom laws. I just realized what the law of faith is and what it means. Wish I had known before but such is our Christian life.

Now...we are bond servants in the house of God as immature Sons. We are growing up in His house, but when mature, we are Sons with our inheritance.

I posted these things in Dcons thread.

Hi Stonesoffire

I didn't read all of Dcon's thread. I cannot know what anyone thinks.
I do know that I was very much attacked for my beliefs instead of discussing them.


So now I feel we could really discuss.

Here is the problem with how Dcon thinks, and I only mention him because you yourself have said (if I understood, ifi not I aplogiize) that you were influenced by his way of thinking (and those who think like him, I don't mean to single him out).

He believes that the workers for are lost. This is wrong. I understand his zeal to get them saved --- the problem is that they ARE SAVED!

There are only two categories of persons in this world: Those who believe in God and those who don't. Those who do not believe in God cannot go to be with someone they don't even believe exists. Or they believe He does exist, but they don't care to be with Him for eternity.

The second category is lost. And THEY are the ones we are to witness to. Some of those are reading along on these threads...

The first category is all of us. We are all saved, we just have a different way of undersanding things and how we undersand them affects how we witness, how we show our faith to Others, how we live by the spirit, as you stated.

We have persons that do not know the Lord, who are trying to live good lives and are working very hard doing all sorts of things---but if they don't have belief in God and His Son, their works will amount to nothing. I would call these self-righteous works.
In the eyes of God, these persons are doing nothing for the Kingdom, because they are not IN the Kingdom.

Then there are saved people who feel they have to do a lot to please God. Maybe they volunteer for their Church, maybe the work in a soup kitchen, maybe they donate a lot of money for the poor. So, they're working their knuckles red, but these are not self-righteous works because the person is doing them for GOD. They are building on the Cornerstone, they are doing what they believe will please Jesus.

We cannot deny that Jesus left us with things to do, with ways to be, with behaviors to follow.

It is not CORRECT to put these persons with the "plentious" as Dcon says. If they want to work, let them work. Is it any skin off our backs? NO.

Then we have another category of persons who do NOTHING. They've been brainwashed into easy believism, cheap grace. I didn't make up these terms, they are used by many who preach and know the bible a lot better than any of us here. They teach that it's only necessary to know Jesus and we'll be saved. Of course, they say that good works are a RESULT of this belief, but if you read carefully what they teach, this is not true.

Anyone reading their words comes to understand that they could have a foot in the world and a foot in the Kingdom and it's OK because we're immature little chirldren who have to grow and everything is ok with God as long as we believe in Jesus.

Have you ever tried to have a foot in two different boats? What happens?

Then there is the third and the CORRECT category of persons. There is ever such a thin red line between these persons and the ones above that if one is not a mature Christian and understands their standing in God, it almost sounds the same.

These persons live their life for God. Romans 12:1. They present themselves a living sacrifice. That means that they do all they can to actually live as God would want them to live. This would include not calling persons names, treating Others gently and truly living according to the spirit.

You said that we are to do Jesus' works? Well, what's the difference between Jesus' works and every other work? What is a work anyway?

In all things you do, do them for the glory of God.
1 Corinthians 10:31

Paul is speaking about eating and drinking, doing or not doing, but whatever we do we should do it for glory to God.
So if I cook for my family, let it be to the best of my ability and to glorify God so that they can say: She''s Christian - this is how Christians are. Let us bring glory to God and not shame. Anythng we do is a work when we know the Lord. We do all for Him.

There is NO SUCH THING as a SELF-RIGHTEOUS work when we work for God.

You said that after salvation we build on the Kingdom Law. What is the Kingdom Law?
Is it not to do what the Master proclaims?

And if we tire? God does not want us to tire. Jesus said His yoke is easy and His burden light. If we tire, we slow down. We rest in the Lord.

But we make it CLEAR that we are to follow the commandments Jesus left us with. His were not suggestions, but commands.

Let us speak clearly and do cleary. Let those reading along understand that Jesus EXPECTS us to do His work for Him.
He's not coming down here to promote the Kingdom. it's our job.

Let's not argue about whether or not it's a result of our faith. OF COURSE it's a result of our faith.
For this reason it counts to us as God's righteousness. EVERYTHING WE DO is for God's righteousness and not our own.
There are NO SELF-RIGHTEOUS works after we're saved.

Now, someone may boast that they work. This is wrong. Do we not forgive our brothers their sins? Is this sin worse than lying or calling someone a drogatory name? it still does not make it a self-righteous work PRECISELY B ECAUSE we are IN Jesus and He saves us from ALL sin.

I hope this is clear. I think it's very important to understand the above and to stop calling those of us who understand this "workers for".

I work for nothing. Jesus saved me. I work because I want to show my love for Him and because He said I was to live for Him and Jesus does not make suggestions, but commands us as to what we are to do to live in the spirit according to the words He left us with.

Some here make it sound like a choice...
or I hear that it's not necessary to ask forgiveness of sins and that I should write each one down so as not to forget even one.
I mean, we could get really silly with all these NEW concepts which were not part of Christianity just a couple of hundred years ago and some even 50 years ago.

Does God not remain the same?

Is it right for Man to change Him??

 

[FranC]

You are, our foundation is christ, We build on to that foundation, Anything else is just plain dead works.

Even a christian can have dead works, when their foundation is on self. not christ.

A CHRISTIAN CANNOT have dead works.
Everything we do, counts.

James said FAITH IS DEAD WITHOUT WORKS.

All works are counted as God's righteousnss to a saved person.
All works are counted as a good witness and testimony to the glory of God.

Dead works can only be performed by NON-SAVED persons because their works will not save them.

 

[Grace777x70]

No amount of works saves anyone. Christ Himself is our only true Savior. We do not save ourselves as religion tries to teach us. My goodness - it's no wonder the minds of us Christians are a mess considering the garbage we are being fed by religion.

But our loving Father ( who does not throw His beloved children into hell or the lake of fire as religion tries to tell us ) is revealing His true works that He has already done in Christ.

The gospel is the power of God for salvation and it is all about Christ Himself and it is about the righteousness of God revealed. - Not our own nor our own attempts to be remain saved - what religious nonsense that is.

Religion always tries to achieve by what they do or don't do what Christ has already done by His finished work on the cross and resurrection.

We live by faith because we are righteous in Christ alone.

Romans 1:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

[SUP]17 [/SUP] For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A CHRISTIAN CANNOT have dead works.
Everything we do, counts.

James said FAITH IS DEAD WITHOUT WORKS.

All works are counted as God's righteousnss to a saved person.
All works are counted as a good witness and testimony to the glory of God.

Dead works can only be performed by NON-SAVED persons because their works will not save them.

No work anyone does will ever save anyone, One day you will stop trying to replace the work of Christ on the cross with your own work, because you have finally seen the light, and realized no matter how many works you do You will still fall short in the end. At lease we can pray this happens.

Yes, A christian can do dead works, It is called works not done out of love, or of service to others, but of service to self, or self gain.

 

[notuptome]

No work anyone does will ever save anyone, One day you will stop trying to replace the work of Christ on the cross with your own work, because you have finally seen the light, and realized no matter how many works you do You will still fall short in the end. At lease we can pray this happens.

Yes, A christian can do dead works, It is called works not done out of love, or of service to others, but of service to self, or self gain.

Someone who was born and raised catholic will have a difficult time separating works and grace.

Even when we are forgiven by God for our sins we have difficulty forgiving ourselves. We work to atone for sins that are already forgiven and completely atoned for by the blood of Christ.

You are correct that works done because of guilt are not worthy and only works done through love will be received.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Grace777x70]

No work anyone does will ever save anyone, One day you will stop trying to replace the work of Christ on the cross with your own work, because you have finally seen the light, and realized no matter how many works you do You will still fall short in the end. At lease we can pray this happens.

Yes, A christian can do dead works, It is called works not done out of love, or of service to others, but of service to self, or self gain.

There are most definitely works of the flesh that believers can engage in. I always like Major Ian Thomas' quote on this issue.

I also realize this is offensive to works-based believers for the obvious reasons.

Here is one from Major Ian Thomas that drives the D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness mindset crazy.

Quote:

You may have harnessed the energy of the flesh in an otherwise quite genuine desire to honor the Lord Jesus in your life. The flesh, which has its origin in Satan, will go along with you; to survive, it is quite prepared to engage in every form of Christian activity, even though this may seem to honor Christ.

The flesh will sing in the choir, teach Sunday school, preside at a deacons’ meeting, preach from the pulpit, organize an evangelistic crusade, go to Bible college, volunteer for the mission field, and a thousand other things, all of which may in themselves be otherwise legitimate, if only it can keep its neck out of the noose.

The flesh will threaten, shout, strut, domineer, sulk, plot, creep, beg, plead, or sob, whatever the situation may demand in the interests of its own survival. By any and all means it will seek to cause every Christian to live by his own strength instead of by the power and grace of the Lord Jesus, and to conclude that doing so is actually a good thing!

The characteristic of the spiritually immature is that they are unable to discern between good and evil (Hebrews 5:13-14), and the baby Christian, like the foolish Galatians, “having begun in the Spirit” still tries to be “made perfect by the flesh” (Galatians 3:3).

We must be particularly patient with those whose lack of understanding allows a genuine love for the Lord Jesus to be satisfied with, and sometimes to be quite enthusiastic about, Christian activities involving means and methods which are heavily contaminated by the flesh. These are more deserving of instruction than rebuke, for they are still in their spiritual babyhood.

.....The flesh will seek to produce the most plausible arguments in justification of its own illegitimate activities, even though these activities are only what the Bible calls “dead works” (Hebrews 6:1; 9:14) and not the “good works” which are truly the work of God.

“Good works” are those that have their origin in Jesus Christ, as Christ’s activity is released through your body because you present it to Him as a living sacrifice. You do this only by faith that expresses total dependence, as opposed to Adamic independence."



Major Ian Thomas: The Way Of The Flesh; from The Indwelling Life of Christ

 

[FranC]

There are most definitely works of the flesh that believers can engage in. I always like Major Ian Thomas' quote on this issue.

I also realize this is offensive to works-based believers for the obvious reasons.

Here is one from Major Ian Thomas that drives the D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness mindset crazy.

Quote:

You may have harnessed the energy of the flesh in an otherwise quite genuine desire to honor the Lord Jesus in your life. The flesh, which has its origin in Satan, will go along with you; to survive, it is quite prepared to engage in every form of Christian activity, even though this may seem to honor Christ.

The flesh will sing in the choir, teach Sunday school, preside at a deacons’ meeting, preach from the pulpit, organize an evangelistic crusade, go to Bible college, volunteer for the mission field, and a thousand other things, all of which may in themselves be otherwise legitimate, if only it can keep its neck out of the noose.

The flesh will threaten, shout, strut, domineer, sulk, plot, creep, beg, plead, or sob, whatever the situation may demand in the interests of its own survival. By any and all means it will seek to cause every Christian to live by his own strength instead of by the power and grace of the Lord Jesus, and to conclude that doing so is actually a good thing!

The characteristic of the spiritually immature is that they are unable to discern between good and evil (Hebrews 5:13-14), and the baby Christian, like the foolish Galatians, “having begun in the Spirit” still tries to be “made perfect by the flesh” (Galatians 3:3).

We must be particularly patient with those whose lack of understanding allows a genuine love for the Lord Jesus to be satisfied with, and sometimes to be quite enthusiastic about, Christian activities involving means and methods which are heavily contaminated by the flesh. These are more deserving of instruction than rebuke, for they are still in their spiritual babyhood.

.....The flesh will seek to produce the most plausible arguments in justification of its own illegitimate activities, even though these activities are only what the Bible calls “dead works” (Hebrews 6:1; 9:14) and not the “good works” which are truly the work of God.

“Good works” are those that have their origin in Jesus Christ, as Christ’s activity is released through your body because you present it to Him as a living sacrifice. You do this only by faith that expresses total dependence, as opposed to Adamic independence."



Major Ian Thomas: The Way Of The Flesh; from The Indwelling Life of Christ

Forget about Ian Thomas Grace.
Maybe you read too much and not enough of the bible?

WHAT ARE WORKS OF THE FLESH?

Thanks.

 

[FranC]

Someone who was born and raised catholic will have a difficult time separating works and grace.

Even when we are forgiven by God for our sins we have difficulty forgiving ourselves. We work to atone for sins that are already forgiven and completely atoned for by the blood of Christ.

You are correct that works done because of guilt are not worthy and only works done through love will be received.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I guess you just gave me the right to say that anyone born and raised a liberal, cheap grace, easy believer, will Always feel they have to do NOTHING to please God but believe in His Son.

Read the N.T. again. IT SAYS THIS NOWHERE.

In fact,

Please supply me with some verses where JESUS clearly states that ONLY belief in HIM will save you and NOT all the teachings He left us with, which included many works.

Was Jesus born and raised Catholic???

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Someone who was born and raised catholic will have a difficult time separating works and grace.

Even when we are forgiven by God for our sins we have difficulty forgiving ourselves. We work to atone for sins that are already forgiven and completely atoned for by the blood of Christ.

You are correct that works done because of guilt are not worthy and only works done through love will be received.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

It can be done, I have quite a few ex Catholics in my church that have no issue separating works from grace. Unfortunately alot of so called protestant churches are just watered down versions of the catholic church, so I am sure that is where most ex Catholics end up. It is a quite a leap to go from deep sacramental religion to grace alone, It is just as hard for a roman church member to convert than it was for the jews trying to convert from their deep religious sacrificial system.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I guess you just gave me the right to say that anyone born and raised a liberal, cheap grace, easy believer, will Always feel they have to do NOTHING to please God but believe in His Son.

Read the N.T. again. IT SAYS THIS NOWHERE.

In fact,

Please supply me with some verses where JESUS clearly states that ONLY belief in HIM will save you and NOT all the teachings He left us with, which included many works.

Was Jesus born and raised Catholic???

In jesus own words

Whoever sees and believes the son will never perish but has (present tense) eternal life (eternal is forever, it can not be lost)

Whoever eats this bread, this flesh and blood, WHoever believes in me will never hunger, never thirst, Live forever, Never die, Has eternal life and will be raised.

Again, Never means never, And eternal means eternal, it can not be lost.

Your stuck in sacramental/phariseeicle religious system of works, and think it will grant you eternal life, When it will never grant you even one second in heaven past your judgment day.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I guess you just gave me the right to say that anyone born and raised a liberal, cheap grace, easy believer, will Always feel they have to do NOTHING to please God but believe in His Son.

Well, Once again (this really gets old Fran, You really are hard of listening)

Since NO ONE HERE TEACHES THIS, You are talking to the wind..

How can you expect to try to refute someone or argue against someone when you do not even know what they believe? You and peter and Stephen and a few others who have come and gone, and I am sure will come in the future, all are so bent on proving people wrong, you will never hear what they are really saying, and continue to make yourself look bad by continually arguing against an argument that is not even there.

Again, We can just pray one day you finally wake up and see this.

 

[dcontroversal]

No work anyone does will ever save anyone, One day you will stop trying to replace the work of Christ on the cross with your own work, because you have finally seen the light, and realized no matter how many works you do You will still fall short in the end. At lease we can pray this happens.

Yes, A christian can do dead works, It is called works not done out of love, or of service to others, but of service to self, or self gain.

Maybe, maybe not......Jesus made it very clear there would be a massive group come before his throne boasting of their right to enter based upon their works done in his name and claim of knowing Jesus......as all workers for do........!

 

[dcontroversal]

I guess you just gave me the right to say that anyone born and raised a liberal, cheap grace, easy believer, will Always feel they have to do NOTHING to please God but believe in His Son.

Read the N.T. again. IT SAYS THIS NOWHERE.

In fact,

Please supply me with some verses where JESUS clearly states that ONLY belief in HIM will save you and NOT all the teachings He left us with, which included many works.

Was Jesus born and raised Catholic???

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. <---My handicapped delayed son can even understand this!

 

[dcontroversal]

It can be done, I have quite a few ex Catholics in my church that have no issue separating works from grace. Unfortunately alot of so called protestant churches are just watered down versions of the catholic church, so I am sure that is where most ex Catholics end up. It is a quite a leap to go from deep sacramental religion to grace alone, It is just as hard for a roman church member to convert than it was for the jews trying to convert from their deep religious sacrificial system.

exactly why the number cast for boasting in works is called PLENTEOUS in number (many)

 

[dcontroversal]

In jesus own words

Whoever sees and believes the son will never perish but has (present tense) eternal life (eternal is forever, it can not be lost)

Whoever eats this bread, this flesh and blood, WHoever believes in me will never hunger, never thirst, Live forever, Never die, Has eternal life and will be raised.

Again, Never means never, And eternal means eternal, it can not be lost.

Your stuck in sacramental/phariseeicle religious system of works, and think it will grant you eternal life, When it will never grant you even one second in heaven past your judgment day.

AMEN....He that believes on the SON is having everlasting life.....I mean, how simple is that......a 5 year old can understand it.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Well, Once again (this really gets old Fran, You really are hard of listening)

Since NO ONE HERE TEACHES THIS, You are talking to the wind..

How can you expect to try to refute someone or argue against someone when you do not even know what they believe? You and peter and Stephen and a few others who have come and gone, and I am sure will come in the future, all are so bent on proving people wrong, you will never hear what they are really saying, and continue to make yourself look bad by continually arguing against an argument that is not even there.

Again, We can just pray one day you finally wake up and see this.

AMEN....the same old argument and false allegations made by those who trust works over Jesus.......

 

[Stephen63]

You know what the apostles argued about? How to best follow the Lord.

I've got no problems with arguing. (I'd be a hypocrite if I did. lol) I got problems with frivolous amusement when we need the Light.

This isn't an Us and Them post. This is a reminder we all need. The war is in our members. Our members. Our bodies. We fight in ourselves between the darkness and the light. And it is also in the members, (of this site, of the church), as in if anything is something other than deepening into the relationship with the Lord, it is wasted space in this forum. The war is in us and outside of us, but it should not be between us, UNLESS it is "how best to follow the Lord."

This is a reminder to check our Light levels.

Since you have told us this is about light against darkness, Which is true, amen, this automatically make it an "us & them" thing.

I want you to know I like so far what you've said, & I hope to see more of it.

 

[FranC]

No amount of works saves anyone. Christ Himself is our only true Savior. We do not save ourselves as religion tries to teach us. My goodness - it's no wonder the minds of us Christians are a mess considering the garbage we are being fed by religion.

But our loving Father ( who does not throw His beloved children into hell or the lake of fire as religion tries to tell us ) is revealing His true works that He has already done in Christ.

The gospel is the power of God for salvation and it is all about Christ Himself and it is about the righteousness of God revealed. - Not our own nor our own attempts to be remain saved - what religious nonsense that is.

Religion always tries to achieve by what they do or don't do what Christ has already done by His finished work on the cross and resurrection.

We live by faith because we are righteous in Christ alone.

Romans 1:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

[SUP]17 [/SUP] For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

Grace,
What you preach and teach is what you term garbage.

I hope you realize that Christianity has remained the same for ALMOST 2,000 years.

Then the easy believism and cheap gracers came along and were successful in convincing everyone that NOTHING has to be done to please God...

That there are works of love and works of the flesh...
§whatever that means... a work is a work. If one loves Jesus, ALL WORKS are works of love.
Maybe I'll get an explanation of what works of the flesh are .... or dead works.

This show a total misunderstanding of Christianity.


Our loving Father throws no one into hell --- a word you cheap gracers and easy believers LOVE to use. I never hear this word coming out of the mouth of those of us who agree with me. That's because WE'RE NOT WORRIED about going to that dark place,

as many of you are and which is the reason why you have to believe that you must do nothing. Because, most probably, YOU DO NOTHING and feel guilty about it.

Also, the word RIGHTEOUSNESS is strewn about without the proper explanation of it.

What is RIGHTEOUSNESS?

And if we ARE righteous, what does that mean for us??

John 15:1-6 must really bother you a lot.

I suggest you read it many times until the meaning of it sinks in.
Garbage out
John in

John 5:28-29 must be just as disturbing.

It does NOT SAY that those who believe in Jesus will be saved, but those who did what Jesus commanded: GOOD WORKS.

Please go through the New Testament and show me ONE PLACE where Jesus said to ONLY BELIEVE IN HIM and you would be saved.

Did He waste so much breath while here on earth explaining WHAT WE MUST DO, only for it to be ignored by the modern easy believers and cheap gracers.


vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv


John 15:1-6 New International Version (NIV)

The Vine and the Branches

15 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.

2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful.

3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.

4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.





Two Resurrections

John 5:28-29 New International Version (NIV)

28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice

29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

I'd like to remind you that these are the words of JESUS.

No amount of twisting and garbage in will change what is meant by them.

We are EXPECTED to do GOOD WORKS, whatever the reason may be.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that those preaching otherwise are leading believers astray and are doing EVIL WORKS.
2 Timothy 3:17
2 Timothy 4:1-4



2 Timothy 4:1-4 New International Version (NIV)

1 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge:

2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction.

3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Following are two letters from Early Church theologians.
Ignatius KNEW JOHN THE APOSTLE.

Let's see what the Church believed RIGHT AFTER JESUS' ascension.
Let's compare THAT with the gospel being taught TODAY-- the easy believism gospel which the persons who lived at Jesus' time DID NOT AGREE WITH...

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV


Clement of Rome (? - 102 A.D.)

First Letter to the Corinthians 33:1-7

What, then shall we do brothers? Shall we slacken from doing good and abandon charity?

May the Lord never allow this to happen to us, but let us be diligent to accomplish every good work with earnestness and zeal. Fro the Creator and Lord of the universe Himself takes joy in His works.

For in His overwhelming might He has set up the heavens, and by His unsearchable wisdom He has put them in order. He has separated the earth from the surrounding water and placed it on the solid foundation of His own will;

and He has called into existence the animals that move in it by his own arrangement. Having prepared the seas and the living creatures that are in it, He enclosed them by his own power.

Over all, with His holy and pure hands He formed man, the most excellent and greatest in intelligence, with the stamp of His own image. For God spoke thus: :Let us make man according to our image and likeness; and God made man, male and female He made them.�

Having finished all these things, he praised and blessed them and said: �Increase and multiply.�

Let us consider that all the saints have been adorned with good works; and the Lord Himself, adorning Himself with good works, rejoiced. Holding to this pattern, then, let us follow out His will without hesitation; let us do the work of justice with all our strength.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

1st Letter to the Corinthians 34:1-2

The good laborer receives the bread of his labor with confidence;

the lazy and careless one does not look his employer in the face. We must, therefore, be zealous in doing good; for all things are from Him (God).

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Ignatius of Antioch (? - 102? A.D.) KNEW JOHN THE APOSTLE. ARE WE TO BELIEVE HIM OR IAN THOMAS???

Letter to Polycarp, 6

Toil and train together, run and suffer together, rest and rise at the same time, as God�s stewards, assistants and servants.

 

[FranC]

AMEN....the same old argument and false allegations made by those who trust works over Jesus.......

Amen.
The same old argument and false allegations made by those who trust their own wrong idea of what Christianity is all about...
SERVING GOD in HIS KINGDOM.

 

[FranC]

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. <---My handicapped delayed son can even understand this!

I have a handicapped too. And she understands God a Whole lot better than most here.
She understands that God EXPECTS her to act in a certain way.
She's more loving than many on these threads and would put them to shame.
Know why? She's innocent and hasn't been warped by strange ideas that have nothing to do with Christianity.

So, Dcon, what is it that WE ARE TO BELIEVE?

That Jesus DID IT ALL, and WE ARE TO DO NOTHING?

Some here have a difficult time just being NICE to people.
Is this what your preaching gets us?

How about preaching that God EXPECTS certain behavior from us?
EXPECTS us to promote HIS Kingdom and DO HIS WORK.

I don't see God coming down here to earth to do it.
Jesus said He would send A HELPER

NOT A DOER for us. A HELPER.

What do we need help for?

TO DO OUR WORK.

What are works?
What are dead works?
What are works of the flesh?

Instead of going nutty trying to explain all this,,, why don't we just say that WE SHOULD DO WORKS.

Isn't that a lot easier and better understood by new christians???