Are you RIGHTEOUS?

[dcontroversal]

Hmmm..... God..... who loves the righteous..... would strike down & kill one of His faithful? Iiiiii'm having trouble swallowing that one.

Does not God love ALL both saved and lost?

For God so loved the WORLD.....

It is not that we loved HIM, but that he loved us and gave himself for us

Even while we were yet SINNING did not JESUS die for the ungodly?

And what about the Corinthian brothers who FELL ASLEEP for corrupting the feast of the Lord.......?

 

[FranC]

People who are working very hard and think that is what makes them righteous get mad when they are told that is not the way of Righteousness.

To them, that would be "easy-believism" or "hyper-grace" or whatever other negative moniker they can think of.


Are you saying we can just break any law we want? sound familiar??? Are we just to do nothing?

Have you ever tried to do nothing? How long were you able? lol

Sigh.

Who said working hard makes us righteous?
Do you not know what makes us righteous?

Why are you not willing to ADMIT that Jesus left us with lots to do.

JESUS said...
John 15:6

IF ANYONE DOES NOT ABIDE IN ME, HE IS THROWN AWAY AS A BRANCH AND DRIES UP AND THEY GATHER THEM AND CAST THEM INTO THE FIRE AND THEY ARE BURNED.


Just before this in John 15:2

JESUS SAID...

EVERY BRANCH IN ME THAT DOES NOT BEAR FRUIT, HE TAKES AWAY...
AND EVERY BRANCH THAT BEARS FRUIT HE PRUNES IT, THAT IT MAY BEAR MORE FRUIT.
NASB

It's titled: Jesus is the Vine ---- Followers are branches.


Does this mean that Jesus said that we don't really have to do works...

or does it mean that WE MUST do works???

 

[BillG]

In Hebrews 11 it mentions every person named that believed had works to prove them.

Faith without works is dead.

The just cannot live by dead faith.

We're saved "by grace through faith". You really ought to study what "through faith" means. It's not a one-trick pony.

I love Hebrews 11.

When you look at those mentioned we know they displayed great faith but we also know that some of them had problems as well, when I say problems I think I'm saying their faith waiverd at times.

Having said that it is obvious that their faith led them to works, maybe it's better to say to be obedient to do what God has asked them to do.

Even when their works were not Godly as such they were still considered people of faith.

I think what I would like to say is that Just can waiver in their faith as such and get it wrong but when they do they come before God and hold their hands up.

Its interesting I think when you look at those in Hebrews 11. Correct me if I'm wrong but they would not have had the bible like we do and therefore no instruction manual as such.

Also the acts of faith displayed by those in Hebrews 11 are probably different from what consider today.

Abram hears God and packs his bags.
Noah hears God and builds an ark.
The harlot Rahab was saved.
The walls of Jericho fell by marching round them.

Works will and should follow faith.
I would also say we need be careful as to what we consider are good works and bad works.
I would also that we shouldn't write people off who are not walking in the way we think they should (I'm not accusing you of that)

We need to get behind the scenes to find out what's going on. This can only be done if we love them as Jesus has asked us to and as we are exhorted to in the Epistles and they know that we love them.

I would still say though that works do not keep us saved and that it's faith that keeps us saved.
You only have to look at the sheep and the goats to realise that.

To know Jesus is to want to be like him, to want to be like him, we want to walk like him and if we do a Peter on him he will restore us and make us stronger.

 

[UnderGrace]

Exactly!!!

God decided that they needed to be removed because of His will for the early church. However this does not change the standard of who is lost and who is saved.
He has very clearly set the standard (being a gift, by grace through faith).

lost---->to hell
saved--->to heaven

 

[UnderGrace]

Yes it was His perfect love at work for all His newly adopted sons and daughters, a critical time in the new covenant that God was protecting.
It was an act of His protection not punishment.

Hmmm..... God..... who loves the righteous..... would strike down & kill one of His faithful? Iiiiii'm having trouble swallowing that one.

 

[UnderGrace]

Again, are these works for salvation or not?
What is your belief?

I am unclear.

Sigh.

Who said working hard makes us righteous?
Do you not know what makes us righteous?

Why are you not willing to ADMIT that Jesus left us with lots to do.

JESUS said...
John 15:6

IF ANYONE DOES NOT ABIDE IN ME, HE IS THROWN AWAY AS A BRANCH AND DRIES UP AND THEY GATHER THEM AND CAST THEM INTO THE FIRE AND THEY ARE BURNED.


Just before this in John 15:2

JESUS SAID...

EVERY BRANCH IN ME THAT DOES NOT BEAR FRUIT, HE TAKES AWAY...
AND EVERY BRANCH THAT BEARS FRUIT HE PRUNES IT, THAT IT MAY BEAR MORE FRUIT.
NASB

It's titled: Jesus is the Vine ---- Followers are branches.


Does this mean that Jesus said that we don't really have to do works...

or does it mean that WE MUST do works???

 

[dcontroversal]

Exactly!!!

God decided that they needed to be removed because of His will for the early church. However this does not change the standard of who is lost and who is saved.
He has very clearly set the standard (being a gift, by grace through faith).

Many make such a big deal about physical death....meaning.....it is the second death that has the power......and physical death can be for God just another means of chastisement for a believer.....such as the Corinthian brothers that were SICKLY and FELL ASLEEP because of their corruption and sin concerning the Lord's Supper.....

Blessed is he that hath part in the first resurrection upon whom the second death hath no power.............

 

[dcontroversal]

Again, are these works for salvation or not?
What is your belief?

I am unclear.

MAKE no mistake.....she believes salvation can be forfeit by walking away from faith and that it must be KEPT or MAINTAINED by works.......just saying....

 

[UnderGrace]

Amen!!

Let God be God.... and we need to stop placing our human traits on Him.

Our love is weak and limited but His Love is Perfect.

Does not God love ALL both saved and lost?

For God so loved the WORLD.....

It is not that we loved HIM, but that he loved us and gave himself for us

Even while we were yet SINNING did not JESUS die for the ungodly?

And what about the Corinthian brothers who FELL ASLEEP for corrupting the feast of the Lord.......?

 

[Grace777x70]

The dynamic behind the way we are actually transformed is by beholding the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror and the Holy Spirit transforms us as we behold Christ and us in Him as one in union with Him forever. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

When we talk about transformation or the way that Christ is manifested in our life or the way we bear fruit or good works - it is really a reference to the outward manifestation of what is already true inwardly - in the new creation in Christ - the new man of the heart - cleansed, righteous and holy and in union with Christ as one spirit forever. 1 Cor. 6:17

Christ being manifested through us is the fruit of a tree that already exists within us.

I firmly believe that if we feed Christians the nutrients of the love and grace of God in Christ's finished work for us - we will walk in the good works that God has already prepared for us to walk in. Eph. 2:10

Good works do not produce life or salvation nor do they keep us saved. That is an anti-Christ belief system that nullifies the very grace of God needed for us to operate in this life by the spirit and not walk after the flesh.

Christ alone is our Savior. Through His blood we have redemption - the forgiveness of sins. Good works are simply the fruit of Him being manifested as we rely on Him alone.

It will be the Lord Himself working in and through us to show the love and grace our Father and loving Lord has for others in the world as well as our brethren that are now in Christ with us.

Let's feed Christians the love and grace of our loving Father and they will grow and in this growing - the fruit of His life will manifest and the good works that are manifested will be birthed from Him. These will be the gold, silver and precious gems that are created.

 

[FranC]

Well said!

Because we believe that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ alone and we don't live by the Old Covenant of keeping the 10 commandments or the law itself - does this mean we can murder someone now or steal from them? Does this mean we don't do any good works for others?

It's obvious that this kind of a belief system that would say these types of things has very little knowledge of the New Covenant. - very little knowledge of the life of Christ that is manifested as the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus, the law of love, the law of faith, the law of Christ Himself in us - the new creation in Christ.

It is a very little understanding of the new creation in Christ - joined as one spirit with Him in union forever.

But the Lord is changing all of this and for those with eyes to see and ears to hear - He is now in these last days speaking of His Son - and all that His Son has already done for us in His finished work.

First you said we're not under the Old Covenant of keeping the 10 commandments or the Law itself.

What is the Law itself?

Then you infer that even under the New Covenant we are not to do "these types of things", like murder.

SO, what's the difference?

If we're not to do "these types of things" and we are to do good works for Others,

then why are you fighting me on this?

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE between the O.C. and the N.C.?

Are we supposed to do good works or not?

Such an easy question.

 

[Grace777x70]

We "get to do good works" because His life is in us now - but they are not for salvation nor for maintaining being saved. That's an anti-Christ belief system that is simply a works-based self-righteousness belief system that denies the very work of Christ.

An example of "good works" are when we encourage people to actually believe what Jesus has said and what He has already done. It is a good work to encourage Christians to believe that He alone has obtained eternal redemption for us. Heb. 9:12

Right believing in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection and that we too have died with Him and rose to newness of life - will bring right thinking ( repentance ) which will manifest in His life being seen in our lives outwardly as His fruit is borne on us the branches.

This is what produces real godliness based on Christ alone by grace through faith.

Without Him - we can do nothing.

It is a "good work" to encourage people to trust that He who has begun a good work in you will perfect it. (Phil. 1:6)

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians to believe that we are new creations in Christ ( 2 Cor. 5:17 )

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians that Christ alone is our wisdom, our righteousness and our sanctification and our redemption. ( 1 Cor. 1:30 )

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians to believe that we are saved by grace through faith alone in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection and no amount of good works can save us nor "keep us saved". Christ alone is the Savior of the world - especially of believers. ( Eph. 2:8-19 & 1 Tim. 4:10 )

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians that we will walk in the good works that God has already prepare for us to walk in as His life becomes manifested in and through us to reveal the love and grace of our loving Father and our Lord has for others. ( Eph. 2:10 & Phil. 2:13 )

It is a "good work" for us to encourage Christians that we are safe in the hands of the Lord and we who truly believe have been sealed by the Holy Spirit and He will be in us forever - just like Jesus said. ( Eph. 1:13, 4:20 & John 14:16 )

It is also a "good work" to remind Christians that there is a warning for not relying on the life of Christ in us for life and living while on this earth.

All the works of the flesh will bring destruction in this life of some sort - whether living the homosexual lifestyle or the exhibiting of malice, outbursts of anger, deceitfulness or the slandering of others in the body of Christ.

Fail to rely on the grace of God that is only in Christ's finished work and trying to do things in our own flesh will not get us to experience the life of Christ that is in our inner man of the heart where Christ dwells and where we are in the kingdom of God.

The warning scriptures are needed and to be heeded - once the proper foundation of Christ and His finished work are firmly established in the hearts and minds of us Christians. From there - then the warning scriptures will have their proper place.

But the firm foundation is Christ Himself and you can no more lose the redemption that is in Christ then Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.

We are beloved children of our loving Father and He will not throw His beloved children into hell and the lake of fire because they don't do enough "good works".

Where there is "security" - there are the nutrients for "maturity". Let's believe what Christ has said and what He has already done for us and grow in the grace and knowledge of Him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So....if a lost man feeds his poor neighbor it is sin.....or if a lost man donates $100,000 to Children's hospital it is sin? yeah......I ain't buying that......

if it is not of faith, or it is to gain salvation, or anything for self. Yes it is sin. it is called a work of self righteousness. or a filthy rag.

 

[FranC]

The reality is we ARE right and they believe they are right, big difference.

I think we, those who know we are eternally saved and works are not part of salvation, become frustrated and angry too.

However, if we do, it is because we just want them to see the victory in Christ.

People working to keep salvation, gain salvation or whatever works the are espousing... in my experience.... just want to bring everyone under that same yoke to validate their own efforts.

Our teaching denies their self-efforts that is why they become so agitated.

This is what happens when a person puts self into the gospel, that is why we are told to deny self, not an easy thing to do for people with big egos (whoever they may be on this planet? ).

Yes UnderGrace,

We ARE supposed to work to keep our salvation.


2 Peter 1:10 New International Version (NIV)

10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters,[a] make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble,

Peter was speaking here about the things we're supposed to do---which are works...


2 Peter 1:5-9 New International Version (NIV)

5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge;

6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness;

7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love.

8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.


How would you explain these verses?
They plainly state that we are to do what Jesus told us to do, to BE what Jesus told us to be.
This entails OBEDIENCE.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes UnderGrace,

We ARE supposed to work to keep our salvation.


2 Peter 1:10 New International Version (NIV)

10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters,[a] make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble,

Peter was speaking here about the things we're supposed to do---which are works...


2 Peter 1:5-9 New International Version (NIV)

5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge;

6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness;

7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love.

8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.


How would you explain these verses?
They plainly state that we are to do what Jesus told us to do, to BE what Jesus told us to be.
This entails OBEDIENCE.

so you believe in works salvation.

Thanks,, I will copy this for future reference when you claim you do not believe this.

 

[FranC]

Again, are these works for salvation or not?
What is your belief?

I am unclear.

How could works possibly be for salvation? It would cause men to boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9


Ephesians 2:8-9 New International Version (NIV)

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

So, let's understand what is being said here.

WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH.
NOT BY WORKS SO THAT NO MAN MAY BOAST.

Salvation is a gift from God. Faith is a gift. Faith brings us to salvation of our souls by the Grace of God, through Faith.

I would venture to say that 99% of everyone on these threads IS SAVED.

So, when I repeatedly hear that works do not save us, I AGREE.
This is JUSTIFICATION.


The problem begins when persons say that works do NOT KEEP us saved.
This is incorrect. WORKS DO KEEP us saved.
THIS IS SANCTIFICATION.

If we don't understand these two steps in our walk with God, we will have a difficult time.
I hear that many have difficulty with salvation and sin and basically it's because they don't understand these two ideas.

If you just read Mathew 5 to 7, The Beatitudes, it would be enough for anyone to understand that Jesus had very specific ideas in mind as to how someone who calls himself a disciple is supposed to BE and supposed to ACT.

Being, is internal. This would be covered by Mathew 5:3-10. It speaks of a transformation that is to occur inside. God said He would write His Laws in our heart. (He didn't say they would be abolished).

Doing, is external. Jesus said we're to feed the poor, clothe the nakes, visit the sick, etc. These are good works.
§And, not the only ones. If you care for your family it's a good work. If you do your best at your job, it's a good work.

Good Works are not a mystery.

Once a person is living in the KINGDOM of God, ANYTHING he does is for the glory of God.

But if we're to be in the Kingdom, we MUST do our part and do our works.
Some here beat around the bush and are not willing to live up to THEIR responsibility.

They want to say that Jesus did it all. Yes. He did it all. He did what He came to earth to do.

He DID NOT come here to do what WE are supposed to do...be good citizens of the Kingdom.

What does Paul say? Did HE rest?


Philippians 3:12-14 New International Version (NIV)

12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.

13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,

14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.



We are saved by grace through faith.
To stay in the Kingdom we must be disciples of Jesus.
It means doing and being what Jesus taught His followers.
It's not a choice.

What is the difficulty when asked if we are REQUIRED to do good works in just saying...
YES !

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How could works possibly be for salvation? It would cause men to boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9


Ephesians 2:8-9 New International Version (NIV)

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

So, let's understand what is being said here.

WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH.
NOT BY WORKS SO THAT NO MAN MAY BOAST.

Salvation is a gift from God. Faith is a gift. Faith brings us to salvation of our souls by the Grace of God, through Faith.

I would venture to say that 99% of everyone on these threads IS SAVED.

So, when I repeatedly hear that works do not save us, I AGREE.
This is JUSTIFICATION.


The problem begins when persons say that works do NOT KEEP us saved.
This is incorrect. WORKS DO KEEP us saved.
THIS IS SANCTIFICATION.

If we don't understand these two steps in our walk with God, we will have a difficult time.
I hear that many have difficulty with salvation and sin and basically it's because they don't understand these two ideas.

If you just read Mathew 5 to 7, The Beatitudes, it would be enough for anyone to understand that Jesus had very specific ideas in mind as to how someone who calls himself a disciple is supposed to BE and supposed to ACT.

Being, is internal. This would be covered by Mathew 5:3-10. It speaks of a transformation that is to occur inside. God said He would write His Laws in our heart. (He didn't say they would be abolished).

Doing, is external. Jesus said we're to feed the poor, clothe the nakes, visit the sick, etc. These are good works.
§And, not the only ones. If you care for your family it's a good work. If you do your best at your job, it's a good work.

Good Works are not a mystery.

Once a person is living in the KINGDOM of God, ANYTHING he does is for the glory of God.

But if we're to be in the Kingdom, we MUST do our part and do our works.
Some here beat around the bush and are not willing to live up to THEIR responsibility.

They want to say that Jesus did it all. Yes. He did it all. He did what He came to earth to do.

He DID NOT come here to do what WE are supposed to do...be good citizens of the Kingdom.

What does Paul say? Did HE rest?


Philippians 3:12-14 New International Version (NIV)

12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.

13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,

14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.



We are saved by grace through faith.
To stay in the Kingdom we must be disciples of Jesus.
It means doing and being what Jesus taught His followers.
It's not a choice.

What is the difficulty when asked if we are REQUIRED to do good works in just saying...
YES !

But yet you preach works are required to keep salvation.

what makes you boast any less? Your still preaching works are required to be saved when it is all said and done.

 

[FranC]

We "get to do good works" because His life is in us now - but they are not for salvation nor for maintaining being saved. That's an anti-Christ belief system that is simply a works-based self-righteousness belief system that denies the very work of Christ.

An example of "good works" are when we encourage people to actually believe what Jesus has said and what He has already done. It is a good work to encourage Christians to believe that He alone has obtained eternal redemption for us. Heb. 9:12

Right believing in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection and that we too have died with Him and rose to newness of life - will bring right thinking ( repentance ) which will manifest in His life being seen in our lives outwardly as His fruit is borne on us the branches.

This is what produces real godliness based on Christ alone by grace through faith.

Without Him - we can do nothing.

It is a "good work" to encourage people to trust that He who has begun a good work in you will perfect it. (Phil. 1:6)

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians to believe that we are new creations in Christ ( 2 Cor. 5:17 )

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians that Christ alone is our wisdom, our righteousness and our sanctification and our redemption. ( 1 Cor. 1:30 )

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians to believe that we are saved by grace through faith alone in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection and no amount of good works can save us nor "keep us saved". Christ alone is the Savior of the world - especially of believers. ( Eph. 2:8-19 & 1 Tim. 4:10 )

It is a "good work" to encourage Christians that we will walk in the good works that God has already prepare for us to walk in as His life becomes manifested in and through us to reveal the love and grace of our loving Father and our Lord has for others. ( Eph. 2:10 & Phil. 2:13 )

It is a "good work" for us to encourage Christians that we are safe in the hands of the Lord and we who truly believe have been sealed by the Holy Spirit and He will be in us forever - just like Jesus said. ( Eph. 1:13, 4:20 & John 14:16 )

It is also a "good work" to remind Christians that there is a warning for not relying on the life of Christ in us for life and living while on this earth.

All the works of the flesh will bring destruction in this life of some sort - whether living the homosexual lifestyle or the exhibiting of malice, outbursts of anger, deceitfulness or the slandering of others in the body of Christ.

Fail to rely on the grace of God that is only in Christ's finished work and trying to do things in our own flesh will not get us to experience the life of Christ that is in our inner man of the heart where Christ dwells and where we are in the kingdom of God.

The warning scriptures are needed and to be heeded - once the proper foundation of Christ and His finished work are firmly established in the hearts and minds of us Christians. From there - then the warning scriptures will have their proper place.

But the firm foundation is Christ Himself and you can no more lose the redemption that is in Christ then Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.

We are beloved children of our loving Father and He will not throw His beloved children into hell and the lake of fire because they don't do enough "good works".

Where there is "security" - there are the nutrients for "maturity". Let's believe what Christ has said and what He has already done for us and grow in the grace and knowledge of Him.

YES.

Works ARE NECESSARY for maintaining salvation.

If you do NOT do the work of the Kingdom, you are NOT a disciple of Jesus.

End of story.

 

[UnderGrace]

So eternal life/salvation is a reward not a gift?

How could works possibly be for salvation? It would cause men to boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9


Ephesians 2:8-9 New International Version (NIV)

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

So, let's understand what is being said here.

WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH.
NOT BY WORKS SO THAT NO MAN MAY BOAST.

Salvation is a gift from God. Faith is a gift. Faith brings us to salvation of our souls by the Grace of God, through Faith.

I would venture to say that 99% of everyone on these threads IS SAVED.

So, when I repeatedly hear that works do not save us, I AGREE.
This is JUSTIFICATION.


The problem begins when persons say that works do NOT KEEP us saved.
This is incorrect. WORKS DO KEEP us saved.
THIS IS SANCTIFICATION.

If we don't understand these two steps in our walk with God, we will have a difficult time.
I hear that many have difficulty with salvation and sin and basically it's because they don't understand these two ideas.

If you just read Mathew 5 to 7, The Beatitudes, it would be enough for anyone to understand that Jesus had very specific ideas in mind as to how someone who calls himself a disciple is supposed to BE and supposed to ACT.

Being, is internal. This would be covered by Mathew 5:3-10. It speaks of a transformation that is to occur inside. God said He would write His Laws in our heart. (He didn't say they would be abolished).

Doing, is external. Jesus said we're to feed the poor, clothe the nakes, visit the sick, etc. These are good works.
§And, not the only ones. If you care for your family it's a good work. If you do your best at your job, it's a good work.

Good Works are not a mystery.

Once a person is living in the KINGDOM of God, ANYTHING he does is for the glory of God.

But if we're to be in the Kingdom, we MUST do our part and do our works.
Some here beat around the bush and are not willing to live up to THEIR responsibility.

They want to say that Jesus did it all. Yes. He did it all. He did what He came to earth to do.

He DID NOT come here to do what WE are supposed to do...be good citizens of the Kingdom.

What does Paul say? Did HE rest?


Philippians 3:12-14 New International Version (NIV)

12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.

13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,

14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.



We are saved by grace through faith.
To stay in the Kingdom we must be disciples of Jesus.
It means doing and being what Jesus taught His followers.
It's not a choice.

What is the difficulty when asked if we are REQUIRED to do good works in just saying...
YES !

 

[FranC]

But yet you preach works are required to keep salvation.

what makes you boast any less? Your still preaching works are required to be saved when it is all said and done.

You sure do read fast.
Do you really read what is written?
Or do you just skim through believing you know the other's position??