The Rapture

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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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It's complicated, I doubt you would understand.

But there are two unequivocal references to Revelation being post the Jerusalem apocalypse
They must not be too unequivocal if you can't find them. As far as being too complicated, I have a reasonably high IQ, go ahead and try me.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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If John was filled with the spirit from birth (which the scripture says he was) then he would know that their was only one wrath to come - did he speak of another wrath after the "wrath to come"?

So the conclusion is the wrath of revelation is the wrath John spoke of.

Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

Babylon is none other than 1st century apostate Jerusalem.


Matt 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

Mat 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

lol,bare in mind that
John was Jesus cousin and so he did know who Jesus was but he didn't know who the messiah was, see John 1:31-33 and Matthew 11;3 and Luke 7:19 it does not negate the fact that the sealed book was not unsealed until after Jesus was slain.
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
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They must not be too unequivocal if you can't find them. As far as being too complicated, I have a reasonably high IQ, go ahead and try me.
ok, what two prophetic dates does Daniel know the exact date of?
 
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who do you think the beast is/was?
Probably Rome and its leaders in those days, and equally oppressive state empires down through the years since then. Any type of government that gets us to look to it, rather than to God.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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You need to ditch this Preterist Hokum, it is upsetting the younger brothers
Why would I "ditch" it when I already "ditched" futurist/dispensational "theologies"?

I think it's you getting upset.

Discussion and questioning is a good thing - if it weren't for that we all be Roman Catholics. And I'd be a deluded "futurist".
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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lol,bare in mind that
John was Jesus cousin and so he did know who Jesus was but he didn't know who the messiah was, see John 1:31-33 and Matthew 11;3 and Luke 7:19 it does not negate the fact that the sealed book was not unsealed until after Jesus was slain.
I think yer jumping to an erroneous conclusion there:

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.

John 1:29-30

The sealed book was only sealed until he ate of it....

Are you expecting John to be resurrected so he can prophesy again?

And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. Rev 10:11
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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Probably Rome and its leaders in those days, and equally oppressive state empires down through the years since then. Any type of government that gets us to look to it, rather than to God.

That seems fair I myself think that things like D.O.J. ad70 took place as said but that from ad70 to 2017 extends from the Roman empire's rule(time's of the Gentiles).

In Daniel the 70 weeks were determined as punishment to Daniels people and the punishment would extend across their captivity in Babylon,Persia,Greece,and then Rome. In Jeremiah/Baruch they were told to Bueid ye houses and dwell in them" and that they would be under those gentiles authority from beginning to end.

They were under Babylon's authority and Persia's and Greece's but when they were under Rome's authority(the forth beast in Daniel) instead of submitting to the authority ordained by God in the things that pertained to the fourth beast they tied to break off the yoke of bondage and rebel/revolt. In Revelation 17 comparing the one from Daniel to The time frame laid out in Revelation 17 the fourth beast(Rome) has not yet divided into it's ten horns(Rev.17:12=no kingdom as yet).

So the thing about the mark, if the fourth beast had not yet fulfilled the times of it's authority over Daniels people and it still needed to divide into ten horns after the point in time that Rev, 17:12 was written then it would be proper for the apostles to say to the Christians to submit to Rome's authority Romans 13 and 1Peter 2. And since the beast had not yet evolved into the ten horns yet then the beast that was and was in the pit had not yet come and so neither had the mark. So the Christians were not receiving the mark(buy/sell Rome's money) but were submitting to the duration of the punishment and waiting for the times of the gentile rule to be fulfilled(one more head,the 8th the ten horns,little horn ect.) like as if we could set the hands on an eschatology clock it tells us where they were at in time when the Rev. was given in aspect to the times of the gentiles.

Jesus said to the Jews that they did not understand the times of their visitation and that's true in that they saw to break the yoke of bondage off their neck and revolt against the authority ordained by God and given to Rome to rule over Daniels people which is why Daniel watched it until it until the ten horns came up, and then the little one afterwards. This is why I keep pointing out that the Jews in the siege did not have the mark either it is for the same reason that the Christians did not have it it is because the times of the gentile rule was not yet full. you were honest and so I was also honest with you my friend.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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ok, what two prophetic dates does Daniel know the exact date of?
From when the command went forth to the rebuilding of the city
From the rebuilding of the city until Messiah

 
Nov 23, 2013
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From when the command went forth to the rebuilding of the city
From the rebuilding of the city until Messiah

I've out a couple of days, if you asked me someting important, ask me again lol.

As for your response to J7, the bible doesn't say to REBUILD Jerusalem, it says to BUILD Jerusalem.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Probably Rome and its leaders in those days, and equally oppressive state empires down through the years since then. Any type of government that gets us to look to it, rather than to God.

In Rev. 13:5–8, the beast was given a mouth speaking in blasphemies against God and his name. Inscriptions have been found in Ephesus in which Nero is called "Almighty God" and "Savior".[SUP][24][/SUP] In verse 4, the beast is worshiped by the world alongside the Dragon that gave it authority. Nero and Caligula "abandoned all reserve" in promoting emperor worship–they were the only two who demanded divine honors while still alive. Nero claimed to be the sun-god Apollo.

Revelation 13:7 speaks of the power given to the beast to make war with the saints. Nero was the first of the imperial authorities to persecute Christianity. Tacitus records the scene in Rome when the persecution of Christians (or Chrestians[SUP][25][/SUP]) broke out: "And their death was aggravated with mockeries, insomuch that, wrapped in the hides of wild beasts, they were torn to pieces by dogs, or fastened to crosses to be set on fire, that when the darkness fell they might be burned to illuminate the night."[SUP][26][/SUP]

Revelation 13:5 says the beast would continue for 42 months. The Neronic persecution was instituted in 64 AD and lasted until his death in June 68 AD, which is three and a half years, or 42 months. Nero was even called the beast. Apollonius of Tyana specifically states that Nero was called a beast: "In my travels, which have been wider than ever man yet accomplished, I have seen man, many wild beasts of Arabia and India; but this beast, that is commonly called a Tyrant, I know not how many heads it has, nor if it be crooked of claw, and armed with horrible fangs. ... And of wild beasts you cannot say that they were ever known to eat their own mother, but Nero has gorged himself on this diet."[SUP][26][/SUP]

The manner of Nero's death corresponds with the prophecy of Revelation 13:10: "If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if any one kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed." According to Tertullian, Nero was the first to assail the Christian sect with the imperial sword. He committed suicide by the sword at the age of 30.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Anybody but NERO, that dumb theory was debunked decades ago. NOT some DUMB calculating the NAME mumbo jumbo; an ID NUMBER for every human being on the planet. It will be much like our Social Security Numbers here in the USA, only it will more like:

123456-123456-123456, hence the 666.
And how did you count Six hundred threescore and six in that social security number?
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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I've out a couple of days, if you asked me someting important, ask me again lol.

As for your response to J7, the bible doesn't say to REBUILD Jerusalem, it says to BUILD Jerusalem.
My bad. It says to restore and build.

"to restore and to build Jerusalem"

Daniel may have known when the command went forth but wasn't alive to see the first part finished. I'm not sure where J7 is going with this.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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My bad. It says to restore and build.

"to restore and to build Jerusalem"

Daniel may have known when the command went forth but wasn't alive to see the first part finished. I'm not sure where J7 is going with this.
My point is that new Jerusalem is the Jerusalem that's being talked about, not earthly Jerusalem.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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My point is that new Jerusalem is the Jerusalem that's being talked about, not earthly Jerusalem.
I get that from here:

Acts 15:14-17 KJV
Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

[15] And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

[16] After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

[17] That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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I get that from here:

Acts 15:14-17 KJV
Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

[15] And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

[16] After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

[17] That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

In the scriptures you gave when did he say he would before,during or after?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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In the scriptures you gave when did he say he would before,during or after?
I guess it would be after earthly Jerusalem has been destroyed from off the face of the earth and Israel is scattered among all nations.

Amos 9:8-11 KJV
Behold, the eyes of the Lord God are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the Lord .

[9] For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

[10] All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.

[11] In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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I guess it would be after earthly Jerusalem has been destroyed from off the face of the earth and Israel is scattered among all nations.

Amos 9:8-11 KJV
Behold, the eyes of the Lord God are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the Lord .

[9] For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

[10] All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.

[11] In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

In the scriptures you gave from Acts, when did it say?
 
B

Burninglight

Guest
Concerning the coming of Jesus and the rapture I only see two things: Jesus came and He is coming back. I know Jesus did many things that cannot all be recorded, but I am talking about something specific to this thread.. The point of my post that you missed is there won't be three comings of Jesus.