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The verb system in Greek is much more nuanced than English.
English, for example, has only one way of expressing the past tense, but the Greek has several.
The past tense can be expressed in terms of the punctiliar (an action occurred in a point of time in the past), continuous or repetitive (but not yet complete), or complete (but with effects persisting into the present).
The use of these different tenses (aorist, imperfect, and perfect) have a lot of theological significance, yet the English will translate them all as the simple past tense with no hint of the differences.
Greek, because it is an strongly inflected language (unlike English) can be very flexible with respect to word order. The advantage of this is that the changing of the word order allows either the subject or the object of the sentence to be emphasised. This is impossible to directly mimic in English.
The use of the article. The article in Greek (the word 'the') is used very differently in Greek compared to English. It is very common to find the Greek article in a part of a sentence where the English translation (for it to make sense in English) will omit it. It will be there as an intensification to draw attention to the word to which it is associated. Again, impossible to directly translate.
This is just a a smattering of the possibilities.
A good course in intermediate Koine Greek explores these and many other aspects of the grammar.
English, for example, has only one way of expressing the past tense, but the Greek has several.
The past tense can be expressed in terms of the punctiliar (an action occurred in a point of time in the past), continuous or repetitive (but not yet complete), or complete (but with effects persisting into the present).
The use of these different tenses (aorist, imperfect, and perfect) have a lot of theological significance, yet the English will translate them all as the simple past tense with no hint of the differences.
Greek, because it is an strongly inflected language (unlike English) can be very flexible with respect to word order. The advantage of this is that the changing of the word order allows either the subject or the object of the sentence to be emphasised. This is impossible to directly mimic in English.
The use of the article. The article in Greek (the word 'the') is used very differently in Greek compared to English. It is very common to find the Greek article in a part of a sentence where the English translation (for it to make sense in English) will omit it. It will be there as an intensification to draw attention to the word to which it is associated. Again, impossible to directly translate.
This is just a a smattering of the possibilities.
A good course in intermediate Koine Greek explores these and many other aspects of the grammar.
Ok, from reading the KJV I have learned that saved and born again are not the same thing, I've learned that flesh Jews are not God's chosen people, I've learned that the rider of the first horse in Revelation is undenieably Christ, I've learned that our soul is bride of Christ.... I could go on and on.
This is what I'm asking you for, what have you learned from studying Greek and Hebrew.
This is what I'm asking you for, what have you learned from studying Greek and Hebrew.
I'd have to agree with KJV.
What a name.
BTW, the KJV did translate some words incorrectly.
Thus changing the meaning of the original.
I agree because it's nice to know koinè Greek only if you're going to read the bible in that Language. Ditto for Hebrew.
Although I understand everything you're saying,I DO believe we can trust the translators enough to translate the entire thought and original concept and not words individually --- which cannot even be done, as you state.
Could you please give an expample of the use of the article?
If it's not asking too much.
I don't understand at all what you're saying...
thanks.
What a name.
BTW, the KJV did translate some words incorrectly.
Thus changing the meaning of the original.
I agree because it's nice to know koinè Greek only if you're going to read the bible in that Language. Ditto for Hebrew.
Although I understand everything you're saying,I DO believe we can trust the translators enough to translate the entire thought and original concept and not words individually --- which cannot even be done, as you state.
Could you please give an expample of the use of the article?
If it's not asking too much.
I don't understand at all what you're saying...
thanks.
P
Allen, I am sorry, but Ellen White was a false prophetess. One strike, and you're out. Beware of every group that started at that time period, they are all very similar... Many had false prophets that failed right in front of everyone's faces. Hold fast to the Bible, become one with the Lord, don't become one with a sect.
First of all, you will learn to think and to make thoughts in a different language, the original one.
You cannot imagine how it will change your mind and style of thinking. Our brain works in our language, thats how we think. If we learn a very different language, we learn how to think differently. For example you will get a new grasp of tenses and time which can change your acceptance of certain theologies, prophecies etc.
This applies to every foreign language you will learn, but, of course, many times more when learning the biblical language.
-----
Second:
The LXX. The LXX was used by the first Church and is quoted in the NT very frequently. If you do not use Greek, your Bible is a mixture of various incompatible sources.
Only reading all in Greek will give you a compatible OT and NT.
-----
Third:
Learning the original language will return to you other options of reading that are lost in a translation. When using translation, you read what the interpreter thought it means. All other meanings are lost to you, because you cannot reconstruct them from English.
-----------
Fourth - in English, you loose the original emphasies. What is emphasised in Greek by the word order etc, is frequently lost in English translation, because English has a given word order and it cannot be changed.
-----
Fifth:
You will be more humble in teaching and understanding, because you will see how many possibilities of readings/understandings are actually in the original language, so you will not become a "one version bigot" saying all others are fanatics and idiots without faith, when they accept another possible meaning.
------
Sixth:
It will help your theology and understading of first Christian literature, because you will not only know what the interpreter said to you it is, you will know what it is by yourself.
-----
To your question: Its quite hard to list some specific example of how this or that changed some meaning, I do not have any list of it... I only know that reading in Greek has given me new insight or better insight frequently. When I will get it again, I will write it down for these discussions
You cannot imagine how it will change your mind and style of thinking. Our brain works in our language, thats how we think. If we learn a very different language, we learn how to think differently. For example you will get a new grasp of tenses and time which can change your acceptance of certain theologies, prophecies etc.
This applies to every foreign language you will learn, but, of course, many times more when learning the biblical language.
-----
Second:
The LXX. The LXX was used by the first Church and is quoted in the NT very frequently. If you do not use Greek, your Bible is a mixture of various incompatible sources.
Only reading all in Greek will give you a compatible OT and NT.
-----
Third:
Learning the original language will return to you other options of reading that are lost in a translation. When using translation, you read what the interpreter thought it means. All other meanings are lost to you, because you cannot reconstruct them from English.
-----------
Fourth - in English, you loose the original emphasies. What is emphasised in Greek by the word order etc, is frequently lost in English translation, because English has a given word order and it cannot be changed.
-----
Fifth:
You will be more humble in teaching and understanding, because you will see how many possibilities of readings/understandings are actually in the original language, so you will not become a "one version bigot" saying all others are fanatics and idiots without faith, when they accept another possible meaning.
------
Sixth:
It will help your theology and understading of first Christian literature, because you will not only know what the interpreter said to you it is, you will know what it is by yourself.
-----
To your question: Its quite hard to list some specific example of how this or that changed some meaning, I do not have any list of it... I only know that reading in Greek has given me new insight or better insight frequently. When I will get it again, I will write it down for these discussions
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First of all, you will learn to think and to make thoughts in a different language, the original one.
You cannot imagine how it will change your mind and style of thinking. Our brain works in our language, thats how we think. If we learn a very different language, we learn how to think differently. For example you will get a new grasp of tenses and time which can change your acceptance of certain theologies, prophecies etc.
This applies to every foreign language you will learn, but, of course, many times more when learning the biblical language.
-----
Second:
The LXX. The LXX was used by the first Church and is quoted in the NT very frequently. If you do not use Greek, your Bible is a mixture of various incompatible sources.
Only reading all in Greek will give you a compatible OT and NT.
-----
Third:
Learning the original language will return to you other options of reading that are lost in a translation. When using translation, you read what the interpreter thought it means. All other meanings are lost to you, because you cannot reconstruct them from English.
-----------
Fourth - in English, you loose the original emphasies. What is emphasised in Greek by the word order etc, is frequently lost in English translation, because English has a given word order and it cannot be changed.
-----
Fifth:
You will be more humble in teaching and understanding, because you will see how many possibilities of readings/understandings are actually in the original language, so you will not become a "one version bigot" saying all others are fanatics and idiots without faith, when they accept another possible meaning.
------
Sixth:
It will help your theology and understading of first Christian literature, because you will not only know what the interpreter said to you it is, you will know what it is by yourself.
-----
To your question: Its quite hard to list some specific example of how this or that changed some meaning, I do not have any list of it... I only know that reading in Greek has given me new insight or better insight frequently. When I will get it again, I will write it down for these discussions
You cannot imagine how it will change your mind and style of thinking. Our brain works in our language, thats how we think. If we learn a very different language, we learn how to think differently. For example you will get a new grasp of tenses and time which can change your acceptance of certain theologies, prophecies etc.
This applies to every foreign language you will learn, but, of course, many times more when learning the biblical language.
-----
Second:
The LXX. The LXX was used by the first Church and is quoted in the NT very frequently. If you do not use Greek, your Bible is a mixture of various incompatible sources.
Only reading all in Greek will give you a compatible OT and NT.
-----
Third:
Learning the original language will return to you other options of reading that are lost in a translation. When using translation, you read what the interpreter thought it means. All other meanings are lost to you, because you cannot reconstruct them from English.
-----------
Fourth - in English, you loose the original emphasies. What is emphasised in Greek by the word order etc, is frequently lost in English translation, because English has a given word order and it cannot be changed.
-----
Fifth:
You will be more humble in teaching and understanding, because you will see how many possibilities of readings/understandings are actually in the original language, so you will not become a "one version bigot" saying all others are fanatics and idiots without faith, when they accept another possible meaning.
------
Sixth:
It will help your theology and understading of first Christian literature, because you will not only know what the interpreter said to you it is, you will know what it is by yourself.
-----
To your question: Its quite hard to list some specific example of how this or that changed some meaning, I do not have any list of it... I only know that reading in Greek has given me new insight or better insight frequently. When I will get it again, I will write it down for these discussions
Respond to post #39 please and thank you.
The reader is always the last authority of the meaning for himself. It cannot be other way.
You can be your authority reading the English translation as much as reading in Greek original.
But reading in Greek will give you at least the points I tried to make.
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post #39:
All gospels are inspired translations of Jesus´ words. Jesus (very probably) did not use Greek when teaching in Israel. So you do not have to go so far to Daniel.
The problem for you is that, apostles or prophets were inspired when writing down the history they translated. There is no proof such inspiration was repeated in any later times. Thats why we, protestants, keep the Sola Scriptura principle and thats also why all Churches (including RCC and orthodox) hold the dogma of canon. Nothing can be added or removed.
You can be your authority reading the English translation as much as reading in Greek original.
But reading in Greek will give you at least the points I tried to make.
----
post #39:
All gospels are inspired translations of Jesus´ words. Jesus (very probably) did not use Greek when teaching in Israel. So you do not have to go so far to Daniel.
The problem for you is that, apostles or prophets were inspired when writing down the history they translated. There is no proof such inspiration was repeated in any later times. Thats why we, protestants, keep the Sola Scriptura principle and thats also why all Churches (including RCC and orthodox) hold the dogma of canon. Nothing can be added or removed.
