The Rapture

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garee

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#6,121
Mar 28, 2016
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The thing to see KJ is that apostate Israel enters the New Covenant in AD67-73 through the Baptism of fire.
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I would think the apostate Jews were under no covenant of God it’s what makes them apostate.

The born again Jew from the beginning came under the baptism of fire by which they were born again from above.

The baptism of John is a ceremonial baptism used when a person had a desire to join the ministry as a Priest. It did not mean they were born again. Experience is not the valuator of the unseen spiritual .

John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
 
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PlainWord

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#6,122
Jun 11, 2013
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I know I keep harping on the temple and 70 AD and everyone is sick of it thinking it was no big deal. Wrong. It was a huge deal. Not only did it represent the Law and heaven on earth, it was also a testimony to the whole world. The temple in Jerusalem was the most impressive building on earth and it's reputation was known throughout the world. It was known as "the House of God," the God of the Jews.

Along comes Christ who starts talking about a new temple He's building not made with hands. Christ starts doing some things in a way that appears to violate the Law (because they had corrupted it). Even the Romans respected the Law of the Jews and allowed them to practice it pretty much undeterred. For Christ to build a new spiritual temple and for his sacrifice to be fully recognized by the world, the old way had to pass away. For the rest of the world to see that they can share equally now in all the blessings of salvation which comes from believing on Christ as the Son of God who as the prefect sacrifice died for our sins, then rose again, the old ways had to go.

No longer did people need priests to mediate when Christ became our Mediator. Can you imagine how confused the world would be if both sets of atonement kept operating in parallel? But a transition phase was necessary. Israel had turned so wicked and evil that even the Romans were ashamed of them and felt duty bound to punish her. The destruction of Israel and the temple was an example to the world for what happens to evil doers just as much as Christ was an example of love and perfection.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#6,123
Nov 23, 2013
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PlainWord said:
It's not just about when the Law ended or didn't end. I agree, for Christians, it ended at the Cross. However, God also made a covenant with Abraham and with the nation of Israel. Part of that covenant dealt with them keeping His commandments (Law). Yes Christ made a new covenant but not with Israel but rather for all who believed. But the old covenant with Israel which they broke due to sin and disobedience and rejection of Christ, the new covenant, was still active and being practiced (although very badly) by national Israel.

The temple was a mirror of the temple in heaven. It was a copy. The new covenant makes the old one obsolete but it didn't immediately pass away, rather it began to pass away. See Heb 8:

[SUP]13 [/SUP]In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

But it had not vanished away yet, right? The discussion goes well into Heb 9. The point is, the temple (which represented heaven on earth) had to go to finish the process of obsoleting the law. This is why the last age ended in 70 AD although the new age (the age to come) began at the Cross after 40 years of instruction just as they had 40 years of instruction of the Law given by Moses.
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I don't see how the temple had anything to do with Gods agreement between himself and Israel. There are 2 covenants in the Bible, DO and DONE. The WORKS were done at the cross, there was no need to DO after that.

Do you really believe God required sacrifices for 40 years after the true sacrifice came and covered everyone's sins forever?
 
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PlainWord

Senior Member
#6,124
Jun 11, 2013
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#6,124
KJV1611 said:
I don't see how the temple had anything to do with Gods agreement between himself and Israel. There are 2 covenants in the Bible, DO and DONE. The WORKS were done at the cross, there was no need to DO after that.

Do you really believe God required sacrifices for 40 years after the true sacrifice came and covered everyone's sins forever?
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Of course not. It isn't about what God required of those wicked Jews. It's about the message He wanted to send to the whole world. Just as you can't serve two masters, you can't worship at two temples.
 
J

J7

Banned
#6,126
Apr 2, 2017
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#6,126
God dwelt in the tabernacle and then the Temple

Why do you think the temple curtain tore in two? That was God leaving the Temple!!

KJV1611 said:
I don't see how the temple had anything to do with Gods agreement between himself and Israel. There are 2 covenants in the Bible, DO and DONE. The WORKS were done at the cross, there was no need to DO after that.

Do you really believe God required sacrifices for 40 years after the true sacrifice came and covered everyone's sins forever?
Click to expand...
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#6,128
Nov 23, 2013
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#6,128
J7 said:
Then what is the Baptism of Fire?
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I'm not disagreeing with the baptism of fire I'm disagreeing with Isreal entering the new covenant in ad 66-70. The baptism of the spirit was the baptism the wheat got while the baptism of fire was the burning of the chaff in ad 70.
 
J

J7

Banned
#6,129
Apr 2, 2017
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#6,129
KJV1611 said:
I'm not disagreeing with the baptism of fire I'm disagreeing with Isreal entering the new covenant in ad 66-70. The baptism of the spirit was the baptism the wheat got while the baptism of fire was the burning of the chaff in ad 70.
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Israel had 40 years to repent. From AD26-66. Hence Peter's words.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

If you were an unsaved Jew in AD66 was God still reaching out to you? Yes. Therefore you were still under the promise of the Old Covenant.
 
tanakh

tanakh

Senior Member
#6,130
Dec 1, 2015
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#6,130
PlainWord said:
It's not just about when the Law ended or didn't end. I agree, for Christians, it ended at the Cross. However, God also made a covenant with Abraham and with the nation of Israel. Part of that covenant dealt with them keeping His commandments (Law). Yes Christ made a new covenant but not with Israel but rather for all who believed. But the old covenant with Israel which they broke due to sin and disobedience and rejection of Christ, the new covenant, was still active and being practiced (although very badly) by national Israel.

The temple was a mirror of the temple in heaven. It was a copy. The new covenant makes the old one obsolete but it didn't immediately pass away, rather it began to pass away. See Heb 8:

[SUP]13 [/SUP]In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

But it had not vanished away yet, right? The discussion goes well into Heb 9. The point is, the temple (which represented heaven on earth) had to go to finish the process of obsoleting the law. This is why the last age ended in 70 AD although the new age (the age to come) began at the Cross after 40 years of instruction just as they had 40 years of instruction of the Law given by Moses.
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There was an overlap to allow the Church to be established, and the Gospel to be preached in Israel. Because the Temple
remained until AD70 doesnt mean that the sacrifices were still acceptable to God. Immediately after the crucifixion the Temple curtain was ripped in two opening the Holy of Holies to all people
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#6,131
Nov 23, 2013
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#6,131
PlainWord said:
They were bound AT the Euphrates, not BY the Euphrates. Nothing says they were IN the river either. The 4 angels represented the Roman army (4 legions). In other words, the Roman army was bound at the Euphrates until it was time to go attack Israel.

If you can explain the spiritual meaning of the 6th trumpet, I'm all ears. Titus' army came from there and it was real.
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Revelation 9:14 KJV
Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

PW the book of Revelation is the revelation of Jesus Christ, the book is about him and all the things he would do at his first coming.

The third part of men is the flesh... throughout the bible the number represents the flesh, carnality and things of this world. The 6th trumpet is all about men having their flesh put to death.
 
J

J7

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#6,132
Apr 2, 2017
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#6,132
The Law was simply a schoolmaster; if the Law brought people to Christ then it was good. It was extant until AD67. Simple
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#6,133
Nov 23, 2013
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#6,133
PlainWord said:
Of course not. It isn't about what God required of those wicked Jews. It's about the message He wanted to send to the whole world. Just as you can't serve two masters, you can't worship at two temples.
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People still to do this day try to please God through the works of the law and the temple has been gone for 2000 years... the message wasn't recieved lol.

Seriously the temple has nothing to do with the end of the old covenant.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#6,134
Nov 23, 2013
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#6,134
J7 said:
God dwelt in the tabernacle and then the Temple

Why do you think the temple curtain tore in two? That was God leaving the Temple!!
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No it wasn't God leaving the temple, the curtain in the temple represented Christ... his torn body allowed access to the most holy place.

Hebrews 10:20 KJV
By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#6,135
Nov 23, 2013
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#6,135
J7 said:
Israel had 40 years to repent. From AD26-66. Hence Peter's words.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

If you were an unsaved Jew in AD66 was God still reaching out to you? Yes. Therefore you were still under the promise of the Old Covenant.
Click to expand...
Yes God was reaching out to them to come to Christ, not by keeping the old covenant.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#6,136
Nov 23, 2013
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#6,136
J7 said:
The Law was simply a schoolmaster; if the Law brought people to Christ then it was good. It was extant until AD67. Simple
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The law still brings people to Christ today. :)
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#6,137
Nov 23, 2013
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@ PW and J7

Jeremiah 31:31-34 KJV
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord , that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

[32] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord :

[33] But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord , I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

[34] And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord : for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord : for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


The new covenant started when God forgave their iniquity and remembered their sin no more. When did that happen, at the death and resurrection of Christ or at the destruction of the temple?
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#6,139
Nov 23, 2013
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#6,139
J7 said:
Yes. Covenanted. God did not leave the Church in Jerusalem for fun.
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So what about somebody like Paul, was he still under the old covenant after his conversion?
 
Bogadile

Bogadile

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#6,140
May 11, 2014
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#6,140
I got a theory for when the restitution of all things occurs that is mentioned in Acts 3:21.

It happens when our Lord Jesus Christ returns. I know it is quite an orthodox idea.
 
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