The Rapture
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As my Irish ancestors would say: "MALARKEY!"
Zechariah 14:3-4 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations as He fights on a day of battle.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. The Mount of Olives will be split in half from east to west, forming a huge valley, so that half the mountain will move to the north and half to the south.
Watch the first minute or two of this Video, and you will see a photo 28 seconds into this video taken from the Near the EASTERN GATE, looking EAST at the Mount of Olives. In fact this video link may have that PHOTO on screen below before you even start it.
THERE IS NO HUGE VALLEY SPLITTING THE MOUNT OF OLIVES EAST TO WEST.
[video=youtube;5fZ87REuynk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fZ87REuynk[/video]
IT HAS NOT HAPPENED YET, that is the MOUNT OF OLIVES LOOKING DIRECTLY EAST AT IT.
AND YAHWEH IS JESUS, and JESUS IS YAHWEH. You do not believe in the DEITY OF JESUS CHRIST do you?
Revelation 6:4 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Then another horse went out, a fiery red one, and its horseman was empowered to take peace from the earth, so that people would slaughter one another. And a large sword was given to him.
THAT IS WWIII.
Revelation 6:4 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Then another horse went out, a fiery red one, and its horseman was empowered to take peace from the earth, so that people would slaughter one another. And a large sword was given to him.
THAT IS WWIII.
FIRST PARAGRAPH ABOVE:
We pretty much agree, but if you think I thought he went to the so-called good side of hades, I NEVER BOUGHT THAT IDEA, even before I was born again. THAT SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE WHAT THE CATHOLICS CALL PURGATORY, which is NOTHING more than a pourly thought out mis-translation and mis-understanding. He wrote our names in the book of life BEFORE THE FOUNDATION (CREATION) OF THE EARTH, BECAUSE HE KNEW HE WOULD KEEP HIS WORD AND BECOME THE MESSIAH WHO WOULD PAY FOR THE SINS PAST, PRESENT, and FUTER. IT WAS A DONE DEAL BEFORE HIS FLESH WAS BORN. THEREFORE Adam's human spirit went straight to heaven to be with the LORD. HE WENT TO THE LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH TO PROCLAIM HIS VICTORY DIRECTLY TO THE DEMONS WHO TRIED TO POLUTE THE HUMAN RACE SO THAT MESSIAH COULD NOT BE BORN OF A VIRGIN. The expression LED CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE, comes from a ROMAN VICTORY PARADE where some of the Enemy is LED behind the CONQUEROR, as He celebrated His Victory over the Grave.
Lazarus and the Richman was a Biographical TRUE STORY, and it is NORM for everyone. Lazarus was in Heaven walking with Abraham arm in arm as BEST BUDS, which is what "IN ABRAHAMS BOSSUM" refers to. AND that is still a Mideast Custom today.
THEY ARE WALKING IN EACH OTHERS BOSSOM, as BEST FRIENDS, that is all it means.
Paragraph three, we agree on, surprisingly.
OH YES IT IS ABOUT CHANGING THE MORTAL BODY INTO AN IMMORTAL BODY and it will be TOTALLY CONTROLLED BY THE SPIRIT, that is what HE means by a Spiritual Body. READ IT AGAIN. Those alive when He comes for his Bride, will not die, but will be changed in the twinkling of an eye. It will STILL BE A PHYSICAL BODY, but it will be glorified, unable to even think sin.
We pretty much agree, but if you think I thought he went to the so-called good side of hades, I NEVER BOUGHT THAT IDEA, even before I was born again. THAT SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE WHAT THE CATHOLICS CALL PURGATORY, which is NOTHING more than a pourly thought out mis-translation and mis-understanding. He wrote our names in the book of life BEFORE THE FOUNDATION (CREATION) OF THE EARTH, BECAUSE HE KNEW HE WOULD KEEP HIS WORD AND BECOME THE MESSIAH WHO WOULD PAY FOR THE SINS PAST, PRESENT, and FUTER. IT WAS A DONE DEAL BEFORE HIS FLESH WAS BORN. THEREFORE Adam's human spirit went straight to heaven to be with the LORD. HE WENT TO THE LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH TO PROCLAIM HIS VICTORY DIRECTLY TO THE DEMONS WHO TRIED TO POLUTE THE HUMAN RACE SO THAT MESSIAH COULD NOT BE BORN OF A VIRGIN. The expression LED CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE, comes from a ROMAN VICTORY PARADE where some of the Enemy is LED behind the CONQUEROR, as He celebrated His Victory over the Grave.
Lazarus and the Richman was a Biographical TRUE STORY, and it is NORM for everyone. Lazarus was in Heaven walking with Abraham arm in arm as BEST BUDS, which is what "IN ABRAHAMS BOSSUM" refers to. AND that is still a Mideast Custom today.
THEY ARE WALKING IN EACH OTHERS BOSSOM, as BEST FRIENDS, that is all it means.
Paragraph three, we agree on, surprisingly.
OH YES IT IS ABOUT CHANGING THE MORTAL BODY INTO AN IMMORTAL BODY and it will be TOTALLY CONTROLLED BY THE SPIRIT, that is what HE means by a Spiritual Body. READ IT AGAIN. Those alive when He comes for his Bride, will not die, but will be changed in the twinkling of an eye. It will STILL BE A PHYSICAL BODY, but it will be glorified, unable to even think sin.
This is exactly right. This is the point I have been making all along. Every creed that was formulated way past 70AD concludes that we are looking forward to the resurrection. This is fundamental to Christian orthodoxy, and full-preterism is outside of it, due to saying that the second coming is already past, and that the resurrection has already occured.
To get around this they spiritualize the resurrection.
Full-preterism is heresy make no mistake about it. There is a reason why they are a minority of christendom and were practically unheard of for a long time.
Once the resurrection and the second coming happens everyone will notice, it will not be something you have to find from the history books.
To get around this they spiritualize the resurrection.
Full-preterism is heresy make no mistake about it. There is a reason why they are a minority of christendom and were practically unheard of for a long time.
Once the resurrection and the second coming happens everyone will notice, it will not be something you have to find from the history books.
VCO,
But prior to 70 AD, this is exactly what happened to the souls of the saved. They first slept in Hades on the good side waiting for the Cross and Christ to free them in 70 AD. Jesus taught this. I'm saying that not only do the souls of today's believer not go to Hades first anymore, they also don't need to wait for the resurrection. They immediately go to heaven and receive their rewards which includes their new body. "All things were restored" in 70 AD with the passing of the Law.
Agreed.
Correct, the spirit returned to God. Glad you see the Roman significance.
This story speaks of a gulf in Hades, not between heaven and Hades. The word, "heaven" does not appear in that story. If you look at Acts 2:34-35, David wasn't in Heaven either and would not be until the Lord made the Lord's enemies (the Jewish leaders who killed Him), His footstool. This happened in 70 AD.
They were in Paradise, not heaven. Paradise is the good side of the gulf in Hades. Remember, Christ went to Paradise when He died, He did NOT go to heaven. He even tells us this in John 20: [SUP]17 [/SUP]Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father. Jesus descended to Hades to minister to the souls there. He then unlocked Hades when He returned ~ 70 AD and freed them. Their resurrection was invisible because they were no longer flesh, which returned to dust, but were spiritual beings in the spiritual realm.
I've read it a million times, suggest you read it again. "We shall not all sleep," meaning we all won't have to go to Hades first anymore. "Sleep" is the term for the dead in Hades awaiting judgment and return of Christ. "but we shall all be changed— [SUP]52 [/SUP]in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. The change deals with the soul. It is the soul that is in Hades, not the body. The body returns to dust. Paul is telling us what is happening to the soul. The souls in Hades "awaken" and go to Heaven clothed in their new bodies. Those who were alive when this happened, their souls were altered allowing them to go to heaven when their earthly body dies. "For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible..." Again, the dead souls (separated from God) will raise into new incorruptible bodies with not one molecule coming from their flesh and blood bodies since that cannot enter Heaven. "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God..." The changing then relates to the soul "...and we shall be changed." Again, the souls of the living changed. But they don't go to heaven until physical death.
But prior to 70 AD, this is exactly what happened to the souls of the saved. They first slept in Hades on the good side waiting for the Cross and Christ to free them in 70 AD. Jesus taught this. I'm saying that not only do the souls of today's believer not go to Hades first anymore, they also don't need to wait for the resurrection. They immediately go to heaven and receive their rewards which includes their new body. "All things were restored" in 70 AD with the passing of the Law.
Agreed.
Correct, the spirit returned to God. Glad you see the Roman significance.
This story speaks of a gulf in Hades, not between heaven and Hades. The word, "heaven" does not appear in that story. If you look at Acts 2:34-35, David wasn't in Heaven either and would not be until the Lord made the Lord's enemies (the Jewish leaders who killed Him), His footstool. This happened in 70 AD.
They were in Paradise, not heaven. Paradise is the good side of the gulf in Hades. Remember, Christ went to Paradise when He died, He did NOT go to heaven. He even tells us this in John 20: [SUP]17 [/SUP]Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father. Jesus descended to Hades to minister to the souls there. He then unlocked Hades when He returned ~ 70 AD and freed them. Their resurrection was invisible because they were no longer flesh, which returned to dust, but were spiritual beings in the spiritual realm.
I've read it a million times, suggest you read it again. "We shall not all sleep," meaning we all won't have to go to Hades first anymore. "Sleep" is the term for the dead in Hades awaiting judgment and return of Christ. "but we shall all be changed— [SUP]52 [/SUP]in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. The change deals with the soul. It is the soul that is in Hades, not the body. The body returns to dust. Paul is telling us what is happening to the soul. The souls in Hades "awaken" and go to Heaven clothed in their new bodies. Those who were alive when this happened, their souls were altered allowing them to go to heaven when their earthly body dies. "For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible..." Again, the dead souls (separated from God) will raise into new incorruptible bodies with not one molecule coming from their flesh and blood bodies since that cannot enter Heaven. "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God..." The changing then relates to the soul "...and we shall be changed." Again, the souls of the living changed. But they don't go to heaven until physical death.
horrible false teaching how do u come up with this garbage? just twisting everything to fit da 70 jerusalem's destruction that no gentile christian could care less about. why would anyone in galatia care one bit about jerusalems destruction? them galatians wasnt jews. they were christian gentiles.
why are u so blind that u teach this garbage is beyond me. only in this forum have i ever read this no one knows about ur beliefs. are u part of some cult or whats wrong? stop teaching this and robbing people their blessed hope!
why are u so blind that u teach this garbage is beyond me. only in this forum have i ever read this no one knows about ur beliefs. are u part of some cult or whats wrong? stop teaching this and robbing people their blessed hope!
Originally Posted by PlainWord
I've read it a million times, suggest you read it again. "We shall not all sleep," meaning we all won't have to go to Hades first anymore. "Sleep" is the term for the dead in Hades awaiting judgment and return of Christ. "but we shall all be changed— [SUP]52 [/SUP]in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. The change deals with the soul. It is the soul that is in Hades, not the body. The body returns to dust. Paul is telling us what is happening to the soul. The souls in Hades "awaken" and go to Heaven clothed in their new bodies. Those who were alive when this happened, their souls were altered allowing them to go to heaven when their earthly body dies. "For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible..." Again, the dead souls (separated from God) will raise into new incorruptible bodies with not one molecule coming from their flesh and blood bodies since that cannot enter Heaven. "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God..." The changing then relates to the soul "...and we shall be changed." Again, the souls of the living changed. But they don't go to heaven until physical death.
I've read it a million times, suggest you read it again. "We shall not all sleep," meaning we all won't have to go to Hades first anymore. "Sleep" is the term for the dead in Hades awaiting judgment and return of Christ. "but we shall all be changed— [SUP]52 [/SUP]in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. The change deals with the soul. It is the soul that is in Hades, not the body. The body returns to dust. Paul is telling us what is happening to the soul. The souls in Hades "awaken" and go to Heaven clothed in their new bodies. Those who were alive when this happened, their souls were altered allowing them to go to heaven when their earthly body dies. "For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible..." Again, the dead souls (separated from God) will raise into new incorruptible bodies with not one molecule coming from their flesh and blood bodies since that cannot enter Heaven. "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God..." The changing then relates to the soul "...and we shall be changed." Again, the souls of the living changed. But they don't go to heaven until physical death.
Hello Snoozy! Then PW needs to read it a million more times until he gets it right! I didn't think anyone could be so screwed up in their interpretation of scripture!
Once the church has been completed, the Lord will descend from heaven with the souls/spirits of those who will have died from the beginning of the church up to the resurrection and will be reunited with their resurrected bodies.
Their bodies will rise from the dust of the earth, being reanimated into those immortal and glorified bodies, which will be like Jesus' resurrected body of flesh and bone (Luke 24:39), yet with heavenly qualities, which is referred to as a spiritual body. Immediately after the resurrection of the dead takes place, because there will still be believers in Christ who still alive, they will be changed wherever they are, into those immortal and glorified bodies.
At that time the entire church, from beginning to end, will be gathered in the air to meet the Lord. From there he will take the entire group back to the Father's house in fulfillment of John 14:1-3 and 1 Thes.4:13-18. Therefore comfort each other with these words.
The word resurrection, translated from the Greek "anastasis" always refers to the physical body standing up again.
The phrase "spiritual body" does not mean "invisible." Jesus is our example of a resurrected body. He told his disciples, who though he was a spirit, to touch him and to look at his hands and feet, drawing their attention to the nail marks, which he retained. The other proof is that the Lord's body was not in the tomb when the women went to bring their spices that they had prepared. For regarding the Lord's bodily resurrection the angel said, "He is not here. He has risen just as he said. Come and see the place where he (his body) was laying."
Jesus rose in the same body that he was crucified in and those who have died in him from the beginning of the church, they will also rise in their original bodies by the power of God, although with heavenly upgrades.
You really need to watch your manners young man. I've been studying this stuff longer than you've been alive. I once held your view until I learned it was false. You can speak to me and give positive criticism but I will not engage with you again if you continue your disrespect!! I've never put someone on ignore, but you could be the first.
FYI, the reason why it was so important that the gentiles learn what was going to happen to Jerusalem was because they were about to gain the inheritance and were receiving the new covenant. Don't you think it would be wise for them to know why the Jews were losing it???? This is so they would know very personally what would happen to them if they fell from the faith and sinned the way those Jews were doing. If you read Romans 11, perhaps you would learn something.
Now back to my point. What was sleeping in 1 Cor 15:50? Was it the body or the soul?? The body decays and returns to dust. Think about that for a minute before you shoot off your mouth again. If you blindly follow the blind, you will remain blind.
FYI, the reason why it was so important that the gentiles learn what was going to happen to Jerusalem was because they were about to gain the inheritance and were receiving the new covenant. Don't you think it would be wise for them to know why the Jews were losing it???? This is so they would know very personally what would happen to them if they fell from the faith and sinned the way those Jews were doing. If you read Romans 11, perhaps you would learn something.
Now back to my point. What was sleeping in 1 Cor 15:50? Was it the body or the soul?? The body decays and returns to dust. Think about that for a minute before you shoot off your mouth again. If you blindly follow the blind, you will remain blind.
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