The Real Biblical Replacement Theology

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J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
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#21
Well stated Snoozy. God has indeed dealt with different people differently at different times. So the term dispensationalism is a bit misleading I agree.Crux is:

Hebrews 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
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#22
"Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands—12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near.18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord.22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit."

Ephesians 2:11-21

There has always been the elect of God. Romans 9:11 "
though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls—" He called Abraham as a Gentile and the promise was made to him as a Gentile.

Genesis 12:1-3 "
Now the Lord said to Abram, “Go from your country and your kindred and your father's house to the land that I will show you.2 And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing.3 I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in
you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#23
A. Father
B. Son
C. Holy Spirit
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#24
Well stated Snoozy. God has indeed dealt with different people differently at different times. So the term dispensationalism is a bit misleading I agree.Crux is:

Hebrews 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
God does not work in the affairs of men any differently today than he did the first time . By a work of His faith, in respect to His labor of Love he had mercy and grace on Abel .

The same way of a imputed righteousness that he works in us to both will and do His good pleasure today. For what does any man have that they have not received? If we have received it freely with no cost on our behalf why would we boast we have not? Would not such boasting be considered an evil and not a blessing?
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#25
D. Dwells
E. Eternally
F. Forever

Anyone else like to join in on the alpha,
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,593
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#26
Tripe.

God promised Abraham to make him a people, (tribal Israel), and a congregation of people, (the Church).
There was never any prohibition on non DNA Israelites joining Israel.

Refute me, or be silent and stop peddling lies from the gutter.
Your nasty comment indicates that you are more interested in hurling insults and picking a fight than discussing the truth. The issue under discussion was the Church, and if you believe that the Church does NOT consist of Jews and Gentiles in one Body without distinction, then you are opposing the Scriptures and also opposing God. And since I said nothing about DNA, that is just a nonsensical statement to create animosity.

For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (1 Cor 12:13)

As to "tribal Israel", Dispensationalists are quite clear in believing that after the Second Coming of Christ, God will gather all Jews from around the world and bring them to repentance and conversion, following which Christ will establish the kingdom of Israel on earth extending from the Nile to the Euphrates. That is clearly stated in the Abrahamic Covenant.

So now that I have clearly refuted you, step up and be a man, and extend a public apology for your nasty remarks.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,593
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#27
God does not work in the affairs of men any differently today than he did the first time
If what you say is true, we would not have this verse in Scripture, so after reading it you should think about this matter a little more carefully.

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: (Acts 17:30 KJV).

Just so there is no misunderstanding, here is the verse from the KJV 2000

King James 2000 Bible
And the times of this ignorance God overlooked; but now commands all men everywhere to repent:

So it should be clear that there was a time when God did not command the Gentiles to repent but left them to their own devices, but now He commands ALL MEN everywhere to repent. Why? Because that is what the Gospel teaches, and the Gospel must be preached to every creature.
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
1,915
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#28
It is not nasty Nehemiah. It is putting an end to the heresy which runs rampant.
Your nasty comment indicates that you are more interested in hurling insults and picking a fight than discussing the truth. The issue under discussion was the Church, and if you believe that the Church does NOT consist of Jews and Gentiles in one Body without distinction, then you are opposing the Scriptures and also opposing God. And since I said nothing about DNA, that is just a nonsensical statement to create animosity.

For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (1 Cor 12:13)

As to "tribal Israel", Dispensationalists are quite clear in believing that after the Second Coming of Christ, God will gather all Jews from around the world and bring them to repentance and conversion, following which Christ will establish the kingdom of Israel on earth extending from the Nile to the Euphrates. That is clearly stated in the Abrahamic Covenant.

So now that I have clearly refuted you, step up and be a man, and extend a public apology for your nasty remarks.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,593
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#29
But they were!!!! They called it circumcised at heart.
But no one had received the gift of the Holy Spirit to dwell permanently and eternally within until the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:38). Which also means that the New Birth (John 3:1-8) goes with the New Covenant, and that too is clear from Scripture (Hebrews 8:6-12).

6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

7
For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.


8
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:


9
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.


10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


11
And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.


12
For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
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#30
Your nasty comment indicates that you are more interested in hurling insults and picking a fight than discussing the truth. The issue under discussion was the Church, and if you believe that the Church does NOT consist of Jews and Gentiles in one Body without distinction, then you are opposing the Scriptures and also opposing God. And since I said nothing about DNA, that is just a nonsensical statement to create animosity.

For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (1 Cor 12:13)

As to "tribal Israel", Dispensationalists are quite clear in believing that after the Second Coming of Christ, God will gather all Jews from around the world and bring them to repentance and conversion, following which Christ will establish the kingdom of Israel on earth extending from the Nile to the Euphrates. That is clearly stated in the Abrahamic Covenant.

So now that I have clearly refuted you, step up and be a man, and extend a public apology for your nasty remarks.
I would offer.

As to "tribal Israel", Dispensationalists are quite clear in believing that after the Second Coming of Christ, God will gather all Jews from around the world and bring them to repentance and conversion, following which Christ will establish the kingdom of Israel on earth extending from the Nile to the Euphrates. That is clearly stated in the Abrahamic Covenant.


Christ has already fulfilled His promise as to coming in flesh typified as sinful for a one time outward demonstration of the invisible Spirit of Christ, not seen pouring out His Spirit (unseen )on flesh, as that seen .

Tribes as gates, and Apostles, as walls. Twelve of one, a dozen of the other . Both are terms that describe the one bride of Christ the church made of many lively stones typified the a metaphor “1444,000” that do represent his chaste virgin bride that do make up the spiritual house of God…the new Jerusalem coming down on the last day prepared as the one bride.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#31
Christ has already fulfilled His promise as to coming in flesh typified as sinful for a one time outward demonstration of the invisible Spirit of Christ, not seen pouring out His Spirit (unseen )on flesh, as that seen.
If everything was fulfilled at the first coming of Christ, there would be no need for His second coming. So what you can do is study the prophecies pertaining to Israel AFTER Christ's second coming. The Church has not replaced the kingdom of Israel which God has promised and which He will establish on earth.
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
1,915
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#32
My comments in green.

While there are prophecies in the Old Testament concerning the salvation of the Gentiles (and even stated in the Abrahamic Covenant), they are such that even the OT prophets did not speak of all redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body,

Isaiah 11 10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Isaiah 42 6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

(And lots of other prophets also prophesied this)


and the word "church" will not be found in the OT.

!! What? Ekklesia and Eklectos preponderate in The Septuagint....please.


As a matter of fact, the apostle Paul explicitly states that in former times the Church was indeed a "mystery" and it was only revealed to him by Christ (Eph 3:1-6):

1
For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

No. This is not what Paul is saying. He is explaining how the Northern Kingdom was scattered into the world, thus making the whole world to be in effect Israel.



The gift of the Holy Spirit could only be given when the New Covenant come into existence, and the New Covenant could not come into existence until the Lamb of God has shed His blood for our redemption. That was the day when the temple veil was torn in two, indicating that the way had been opened into the Holy of Holies in Heaven through the blood of Christ. Following that it would be fifty days until the Holy Spirit was poured down upon the earth, and those who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ would receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. That is when the Church came into existence.
The Gentiles entered into this Body shortly thereafter.

However, there were those who had been saved by grace from Abel until the crucifixion of Christ. These were the OT saints, called "the spirits of just men made perfect", since they could only be taken up to Heaven from Sheol/Hades after the resurrection. Therefore the Holy Spirit -- speaking through Paul in Hebrews, makes a distinction between the OT saints and the NT saints in Heaven. After the Resurrection/Rapture, all the saints will be perfected and glorified and receive immortal bodies. Please note (Heb 12:22-24)

22But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and [1] to an innumerable company of angels,
23[2] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and [3] to God the Judge of all, and [4] to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24And [5] to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and [6] to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,687
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#33
The OT saints were "looking forward to the cross" as we are informed by the scriptures.
Scripture please showing that one OT saint was looking forward and put his faith and hope in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for sin.

The Lord's disciples didn't even know about the cross. It was hid from man from the beginning of the world.

Luke 18:31-34
Romans 16:25-26
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,687
3,545
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#34
Receiving the end of your faith, even "the salvation of your souls". Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of "time" the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1 Peter1:11
Let's finish the thought...[SUP]12 [/SUP]Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

The OT prophets wrote about the Lord, but had no understanding. We can now look back at those OT passages and see Christ in them. It has now been revealed.
 
Jul 23, 2017
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#35
Scripture please showing that one OT saint was looking forward and put his faith and hope in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for sin.

The Lord's disciples didn't even know about the cross. It was hid from man from the beginning of the world.

Luke 18:31-34
Romans 16:25-26
nobody was looking forward to the cross in the old testament. this is true my friend. not a single verse they got to prove it. they just repeat it bcuz it sounds great.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#36
Scripture please showing that one OT saint was looking forward and put his faith and hope in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for sin.

The Lord's disciples didn't even know about the cross. It was hid from man from the beginning of the world.

Luke 18:31-34
Romans 16:25-26
But revealed in Isaiah 52.13-53.12
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
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#37
The NT church is justified by the faith of Jesus Christ. Galatians 2:16, 20; Romans 3:21-23; Philippians 3:9
So were the OT saints Romans 3.25

When the NT believer dies, he or she goes to be with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:6-9
So do the OT saints eccles 12.7

Don't care about Greek, I've got the real deal in English.
More fool you!
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#38
It is not nasty Nehemiah. It is putting an end to the heresy which runs rampant.
So now, instead of apologizing, you are adding insult to injury by calling me a heretic. What next?

I notice, however, that you could not respond with Scripture and reason in your claim about "heresy". So just remember that false witness against Christian brethren is a grave sin, and you have to face the consequences.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
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#39
Well, frankly I have no problem identifying myself as a Dispensationalist, and a proper understanding of Dispensationalism will show you that attempting to foist a "Plan A" and a "Plan B" on Dispensationalists is pure propaganda and nonsense.
Maybe you don't fully understand what the full implications are from promoters of that "theology".

This is from
"Things to Come - A Study in Biblical Eschatology" written by J.D Pentecost:

“The church itself was the mystery. The fact that God was going to form Jews and Gentiles alike in one body was never revealed in the Old Testament and forms the mystery of which Paul speaks in Ephesians 3:1-7; Romans 16:25-27; Colossians 1:26-29. This whole mystery program was not revealed until after the rejection of Christ by Israel.”

The church is manifestly an interruption of God’s program for Israel, which was not brought into being until Israel’s rejection of the offer of the kingdom. It must logically follow that his mystery program must itself be brought to conclusion before God can resume His dealing with the nation of Israel.

The mystery program, which was so distinct in its inception, will certainly be separate at its conclusion. This program must be concluded before God resumes and culminates His program for Israel. This mystery concept of the church makes a pre-tribulational rapture a necessity.”


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There was only one program for Israel and that was and is the church.



 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
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#40
I would not call you an heretic. I said this is a heresy. I am not the Pope.

False witness is a sin, full stop.


So now, instead of apologizing, you are adding insult to injury by calling me a heretic. What next?

I notice, however, that you could not respond with Scripture and reason in your claim about "heresy". So just remember that false witness against Christian brethren is a grave sin, and you have to face the consequences.