ISRAEL: GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE - YES OR NO?

[valiant]

Romans 11:22-28English Standard Version (ESV)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

Yes they will be grafted back into true Israel as believers in the Messiah.

The Mystery of Israel's Salvation

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers:[SUP][a][/SUP] a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,
“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
[SUP]27 [/SUP]“and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
.

But earlier we are told only remnant will be saved.(Rom 9.27), Thus the Israel that will be saved is true Israel, i.e. the remnant. They are not all Israel which are of Israel (9.6)

[SUP]28 [/SUP]As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers

And it is only the election who will be saved, ie believers in Messiah.

Romans 11:22-28English Standard Version (ESV)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again

.

They will be grafted in again if they believe in Messiah.

The Mystery of Israel's Salvation

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers:[SUP][a][/SUP] a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,
“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
[SUP]27 [/SUP]“and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
[SUP]28 [/SUP]As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.

But what is the 'ALL Israel'. It is the true Israel, the election of Israel.

 

[J7]

You are talking like a cult. Stop making foolish allegations and address scripture please.

Now you are muddling up the covenant and the promises....

Nope The church was never promised land. God said he gave it to him forever. If you do not believe this, then you call God a liar.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

The church (assembly or body) was around before Abraham and is around after him.

 

[unobtrusive]

Just FYI for clarification as we continue. Hebrew is actually a language, and the sect of people that can speak and read it such as Abraham. Israel is actually a nation. There are many of Israelite heritage (not pure-bred) that have no idea how to speak Hebrew, and probably never studied it either. Being more definitive might help those of us reading the posts.

 

[Locutus]

Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers[a] a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,“The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;27 “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”

Paul has only quoted part of this prophecy from Isaiah, it was a practice to give the hearer readers attention to the full context:

Isa 59:18 According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompense to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompense.

Isa 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.

Isa 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.

Isa 59:21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

The corollary prophecy:

Isa 27:9 By this therefore shall the iniquity of Jacob be purged; and this is all the fruit to take away his sin; when he maketh all the stones of the altar as chalkstones that are beaten in sunder, the groves and images shall not stand up.

Isa 27:10 Yet the defenced city shall be desolate, and the habitation forsaken, and left like a wilderness: there shall the calf feed, and there shall he lie down, and consume the branches thereof.

Isa 27:11 When the boughs thereof are withered, they shall be broken off: the women come, and set them on fire: for it is a people of no understanding: therefore he that made them will not have mercy on them, and he that formed them will show them no favour.

There are two motifs in regards to Jacob, one of salvation for those that turn from transgression and judgement when he "defenced city shall be desolate"

This occurred during the 1st century AD with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.

It's a good news/bad news situation. Good news for them that turned from transgression, bad news for those that didn't.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are talking like a cult. Stop making foolish allegations and address scripture please.

Now you are muddling up the covenant and the promises....

I adressed scripture, and have stated God will continue to keep what he said he will do,

that's not a cult, that's taking God at his word,

your the one not addressing scripture,

 

[Bladerunner]

No, as professing Jews who are actually against our Christ, and deny that He is the Messiah, they CANNOT possibly, in any way, claim to be followers of Jesus.

WIllie T what has gotten in to you.......There are Jewish people that have accepted Christ as their savior... They are called Messianic Jews but in reality they are the 'Church' just as others in Christ are the 'Church'.

Having said that, there are many Orthadox, Talmudic Judaizers that do not consider Jesus to be the messiah they are waiting on. Thus, Daniel's 70th week is more for them than it is to punish sinners.

I hope you reconsider that there are many Jews that are part of God's Church.

 

[Bladerunner]

those that are circumcised of the heart and not the flesh, whose praise is of God and not men are the spiritual Jews, of such are the Israel of God , Romans 2-28,29, Galatians 6: 12-16.............be blessed

No, WillieBob,,,,they are part of Jesus' Church.....plain and simple.

Let me ask a question? If you are an American can you be part of Jesus' CHurch... If so are you still an American?

So by extrapolation, If a Jewish person from Israel accepts Christ then they become part of HIS Church. Are they Still a part of the Israeli nation?

Yes, their Bodies are a part of the Israeli Nation, Their Soul (spirit) is in Jesus' Church.

****************

There is another part to this story.. The Talmudic Judaism part of Israel that does not believe in Jesus Christ as their Messiah. They are still waiting which is why they want to rebuild the temple as prophesied by Daniel the Prophet and Jesus the Prophet.

Why would they want to rebuild the temple????In order to get rid of their sins by ritualistic sacrifices as the LAW of MOSES required of them. One might ask why do they not see that Jesus is the Messiah.... It was self ordained when they did not Know of the Coming of Jesus Christ to Jerusalem that faithful April 6th 32 AD, thus the crucifixion followed by the Blindness of the Nation of Israel until the "Fullness of HIS Church"..

These are the Jews that do not believe in Jesus as the Messiah and will not see anything spiritually until the Restrainer (Holy Spirit) is removed.

Hope this help.

 

[Bladerunner]

Physical Israel was dispersed and never to be again some 2000 years ago. All of the temple records were destroyed, none can prove their linage without it.. There is probably no one left with more that 15% Jewish blood today, and most of those are Palestinians...... Jesus said I leave unto you your house DESOLATE. Do you know what desolate means? When Jesus says desolate He means desolate...Never to be again


The church/ecclesia IS Israel...In fact, its always been Israel by faith, for all Israel, is not of Israel, and ONLY All Israel is saved said Paul...ALL Israel is the remnant believers by faith, of Israel is of the flesh.....be blessed

WIllyBob.....Please sit back and listen to yourself.... "All of the temple records were destroyed, none can prove their linage without it.. "

Do you Believe God Sovereignty is everything. If so how can you doubt that He would not tell you something in the Bible (His WORD) without an explanation. In other words, their lineage for Priest have already been proved!

Me thinks you need to read upon Paul instead of spreading around talking points.

 

[Bladerunner]

All the promises to Abraham were made to Christ, not the flesh nation of Israel:

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

why do you spew such false religion in here..... God was talking to Abraham directly in Gen 12:1-4. The same God that wrote/inspired the Holy Bible, The same God that was and is; The God of Abraham, The GOD of Isaac and the God of Jacob.

All the covenants between the three and GOD were made to the FLESH (Nation of Israel) and are still in effect.

If you would like to discuss this further, please press GO

 

[Locutus]

Take it up with Paul, that's what he stated when writing to the Galatians.

 

[Gabriel2020]

Abraham's seed is not Jesus. Jesus stands alone as the only begotten son of God. no one else was worthy to do what it did. only a sinless person could accomplish what Jesus did.

 

[Locutus]

You can try and rewrite Paul's words if you like, good luck with that.

 

[Gabriel2020]

God was telling Abraham about his seed, which was the seed of faith of everyone in their own generation.They would have faith as he had,and believe and be counted unto them as righteousness. that is why scripture says that Abraham is the father of our faith.

 

[Bladerunner]

You can try and rewrite Paul's words if you like, good luck with that.

No it is your translation of those words that is the problem......

Nevermind,,,,,,it is not worth it..... because most people on this forum have you pegged out and pay no attention to your ramblings.

 

[Locutus]

John 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?

Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh.

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.


Nuff said, unless you goys want to argue further with the scripture.

 

[Locutus]

Nevermind,,,,,,it is not worth it..... because most people on this forum have you pegged out and pay no attention to your ramblings.

Their loss not mine....

 

[Gabriel2020]

Sure, that is what scripture say, but it is talking about faith, the faith David had, a man after God's own heart. one seed only, and not seeds, because there can be only one faith, and one kind of faith. It started with Abraham, then Isaac got that same faith, that same seed, and then came Jacob. that same seed of faith that started with Abraham.

 

[Bladerunner]

I thought you started out saying the Jews have a right to that land forever, and are totally justified in kicking out anyone trying to live there.

Did I miss something?

That is what ultimately will happen in the near future...

I know you do not pay attention to the scripture of Revelation except that its prophecies are fulfilled in the past.....WELLL here is one that has not been fulfilled in the past.

Damascus is the oldest city that has been continuously populated cities in History, some say all the way back to Abraham.

Isaiah 17:1...."The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap"

As I said, the near future seems to be pretty close these days. But then Revelation is simply symbolic and its prophecies fulfilled in or before 70AD.

 

[Locutus]

That prophecy of Isaiah has nothing to do with what's happening now:

Adam Clarke's commentary:

The burden of Damascus - Which is, according to the common version, The cities of Aroer are forsaken. It has already been observed by the learned prelate that the prophecy, as it relates to Damascus, was executed in the beginning of the reign of Ahaz, probably about the third year. If we credit Midrash, the Damascenes were the most extensive and flagrant of all idolaters. "There were in Damascus three hundred and sixty-five streets, in each of these was an idol, and each idol had his peculiar day of worship; so that the whole were worshipped in the course of the year." This, or any thing like this, was a sufficient reason for this city's destruction.

Neither does the prophecy say it would remain that way.

 

[Bladerunner]

So according to you YHWH is Jesus? Jesus means "YHWH is salvation", so its quite a complicated idea.

Also, why did you not continue the citation, the very next verse says the condition.

And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”
Then God said to Abraham, "As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come.

Also, here you have the word translated as "everlasting":
Strong's Hebrew: 5769. עוֹלָם (olam) -- long duration, antiquity, futurity

And I ask of you TroFimus,,,why not continue the context. Go back to Gen 12 where the "Abrahamic Covenant" is spoke of for the first time. Here you have 7 "I wills" (you can pull them out).

The go to Gen 15:6-21 where God places Abraham under a deep sleep while GOD performs a ritual that would bring about a solemn oath. Because God was performing this ritual by himself, it is considered to be unconditional.

In otherwords, Abraham was required to do nothing (he was asleep), Unilateral or it was all by Grace of GOD...With GOD declaring that it was eternal and unconditional... BY FAITH ALONE

One other thing to remember and remember well.... two of the 7 "I Wills": "I will Bless them that Bless thee" and "I will Curse them that Curse thee"



There are four covenants in the OT and NT. The Abrahamic Covenant, the Land Covenant, the Davidic Covenant, and the New Covenant and God will keep his word in everyone of them...... It is to his Glory, Amen.