Not By Works

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loveme1

Senior Member
#28,761
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
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#28,761
The saints Keep the Commandments of GOD and Have the Testimony of the Messiah.

But for those of you who wish people good luck for making His Word our Foundation or those that can't fathom the idea we are to be perfect like our Father and have exceeding Righteousness.. you believe not.

You preach not the Everlasting Gospel and you would do well to refrain and fear GOD.

May you Repent and believe and be set free.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#28,762
#28,762
Well sadly people keep redefining scripture away from the truth, so I have to check for understanding, I thought you were a teacher you should know this...always looking to trip me up...so funny:D

FranC said:
UG
Why do you ask this of everyone?????

You can't tell by how person's act if they're born again?
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L

loveme1

Senior Member
#28,763
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
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#28,763
UnderGrace said:
Well sadly people keep redefining scripture away from the truth, so I have to check for understanding, I thought you were a teacher you should know this...always looking to trip me up...so funny:D
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Honestly you trip yourself up.. but may the Good Shepherd come and gather you.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#28,764
#28,764
So Jesus died on the cross to leave his testimony?

To be born again one must believe in the work of Christ on the cross by having a change of mind (repentance) that one's own works will never be sufficient to save and Jesus provides the propitiation for our sins.

Repentance is not only about feeling contrition for one's sins.

loveme1 said:
The saints Keep the Commandments of GOD and Have the Testimony of the Messiah.

But for those of you who wish people good luck for making His Word our Foundation or those that can't fathom the idea we are to be perfect like our Father and have exceeding Righteousness.. you believe not.

You preach not the Everlasting Gospel and you would do well to refrain and fear GOD.

May you Repent and believe and be set free.
Click to expand...
 
Seohce

Seohce

Senior Member
#28,765
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
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#28,765
Grace777x70 said:
Legalism - in the biblical sense of the word - is any attitude or belief that human merit can produce, prove, or preserve for one-self an acceptable standing before God.

Whenever our assurance of salvation rests upon our "performance" rather then upon the "promises" of God that are Yes and Amen in Christ - we are in big trouble - we have fallen from grace to rely on our own self-effort so grace does not flow to us.

Obedience in the New Covenant:

In loving God and others as Jesus says is the greatest commandment in the law in relation to obedience.

Obedience to me is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man. It is not the root. It's the love of God and the life of Christ manifesting Himself in and through us to a hurt and dying world and to our fellow brethren.

It is not necessarily something "we do to be" but stems from something we "already are now" in Him and so we "do love" as we grow in our awareness of His love for us.

We obey our Lord and Father because we know Him and trust in His character and obedience is not a set of rules that we follow, but a natural flow of the life of God in us built on a love-trust relationship. When you know the love of God for us we will obey Him naturally and effortlessly.

 When our minds are renewed to the truth that is in Christ - we obey from our hearts effortlessly. It's a fruit of being in Christ.

I maintain that obedience is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man that is created in Christ. When we teach the grace of God this enables us to bear His fruit in and through us to reflect the true kingdom of the love and grace of God to a hurt and dying world.

Teach and preach who believers are in Christ because we are in union in one spirit with the Lord Jesus and they will "awake to righteousness" that is in them because they are a new creation in Him and sin not and walk in the good works that God has prepared for them.
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If obedience is the fruit of the life of Christ in you then it would manifest outwardly as a result, evidence or proof, then why do you ignore or reject the law which even Christ himself commanded the rich young man in mat 19:16-30, to obey. If you are rich, wouldn't you obey Christ's command to sell your possessions and to give to the poor in all honesty and out of love and compassion? Jesus was seeking for genuine obedience and not just superficial and hypocritical type of obedience as the pharisees do. So if obedience is the fruit then you can obey God's law with the help of the Holy Spirit dwelling in you and you won't be ashamed to prove it.

REMEMBER;

DISOBEDIENCE SEPARATED US FROM GOD.

Romans 5:19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Ephesians 4:18 They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the IGNORANCE that is in them due to the HARDENING OF THEIR HEARTS.
 
TruthTalk

TruthTalk

Senior Member
#28,766
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
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#28,766
loveme1 said:
mmmm... I'm not making this up...

Is there something wrong with being rewarded a gift for our works..

if it is the Master Himself who requires such work?
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If I give you a "gift", and you pay me for that "gift", it no longer a gift, it is a "work"
simple Sunday school theology.

"And if by grace (a gift), then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." Romans11:6

"You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have 'fallen away from grace." Gal.5:22

Again, this is basic Sunday School theology - wouldn't you agree.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#28,767
#28,767
So true, we have discussed this so many times with those who keep wanting to add in works somewhere in the gift.

Yes they frustrate grace which is the saddest part of their whole schema.

I have learned that if someone does not have a correct understanding of being born again and the gospel, the rest of their dogma so to speak, usually has works/law as part of salvation somewhere, it pains me to say it this way but it is true.


TruthTalk said:
If I give you a "gift", and you pay me for that "gift", it no longer a gift, it is a "work"
simple Sunday school theology.

"And if by grace (a gift), then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." Romans11:6

"You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have 'fallen away from grace." Gal.5:22

Again, this is basic Sunday School theology - wouldn't you agree.
Click to expand...
 
L

loveme1

Senior Member
#28,768
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
#28,768
UnderGrace said:
So Jesus died on the cross to leave his testimony?

To be born again one must believe in the work of Christ on the cross by having a change of mind (repentance) that one's own works will never be sufficient to save and Jesus provides the propitiation for our sins.

Repentance is not only about feeling contrition for one's sins.
Click to expand...

Hebrews 9

11But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. 13For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 18Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. 19For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. 21Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. 22And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#28,769
Nov 24, 2013
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#28,769
AllenW said:
You start with judgment and you finish with guilt.
It seems you are the one in need of a better relationship with the Holy Spirit.
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It is not judgement to point out obvious error which study or just plain reading should correct Allen.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#28,770
#28,770
Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
Romans 4:4

:(

TruthTalk said:
If I give you a "gift", and you pay me for that "gift", it no longer a gift, it is a "work"
simple Sunday school theology.

"And if by grace (a gift), then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." Romans11:6

"You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have 'fallen away from grace." Gal.5:22

Again, this is basic Sunday School theology - wouldn't you agree.
Click to expand...
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#28,771
#28,771
Yes I have that in my bible too!!:D


loveme1 said:
Hebrews 9

11But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. 13For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 18Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. 19For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. 21Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. 22And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Click to expand...
 
L

loveme1

Senior Member
#28,772
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
#28,772
TruthTalk said:
If I give you a "gift", and you pay me for that "gift", it no longer a gift, it is a "work"
simple Sunday school theology.

"And if by grace (a gift), then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." Romans11:6

"You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have 'fallen away from grace." Gal.5:22

Again, this is basic Sunday School theology - wouldn't you agree.
Click to expand...

I won't keep copying and pasting but you need to read the Bible. Your heart is not circumcised and you wrestle with scripture..
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#28,774
Nov 24, 2013
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#28,774
The kingdom of God lives within us. We live out of that kingdom. Being led by His Voice as He speaks. Whether in scripture or just revelation truth, He makes His will and understanding of truth known by His Voice. If we ask.

Our victory is out of being seated in the heavenly places with Him. This is our rest. He sat down, we sit down with Him ending our working to please Him by fleshly ways, and do the things of Spirit.

We are saved by blood, and kept by blood. Blood is our Passover and we pass from death to His life.
Pentecost is the power to live but it is Power of Holy Spirit not our own.

That is what we are saying. We rest in His work. We work out of our rest. It's just that simple.
 
AllenW

AllenW

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#28,775
Apr 20, 2016
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#28,775
stonesoffire said:
It is not judgement to point out obvious error which study or just plain reading should correct Allen.
Click to expand...
Maybe you just don't understand English very well.
It's never too late to go back to school.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#28,776
#28,776
Not really

The saints Keep the Commandments of GOD and Have the Testimony of the Messiah.
Click to expand...
A testimony can mean a formal or written statement, or evidence or proof of something.

So perhaps you are saying we have the Law (613) and we have Jesus in which case I would say that in the language of scripture

But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
Romans 11:6

Paul taught very clearly the law and Jesus do not mix and I might add that is also what the book of Hebrews is also teaching.


loveme1 said:
It answers your question does it not?
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UnderGrace

Guest
#28,777
#28,777
Beautiful and Amen!!

We rest in His work. We work out of our rest. It's just that simple.
Click to expand...

stonesoffire said:
The kingdom of God lives within us. We live out of that kingdom. Being led by His Voice as He speaks. Whether in scripture or just revelation truth, He makes His will and understanding of truth known by His Voice. If we ask.

Our victory is out of being seated in the heavenly places with Him. This is our rest. He sat down, we sit down with Him ending our working to please Him by fleshly ways, and do the things of Spirit.

We are saved by blood, and kept by blood. Blood is our Passover and we pass from death to His life.
Pentecost is the power to live but it is Power of Holy Spirit not our own.

That is what we are saying. We rest in His work. We work out of our rest. It's just that simple.
Click to expand...
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#28,778
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#28,778
FranC said:
UG
Why do you ask this of everyone?????

You can't tell by how person's act if they're born again?
Click to expand...
You don't know?

It's quite deceptive, actually.

Some of the "other side" has a few people whose specialty is to post little random "almost related" things to those who are making headway into the thread to merely "sidetrack" them, to pull them off course.

First, one starts it, then others come in with secondary questions to divide your attention from the first one, & so on, & so forth

It divides your time, your focus, & your purpose.

It's tactic designed to wear you down & make you leave.

I've seen it for a few years..... and it works.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#28,779
#28,779
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to stonesoffire again.


stonesoffire said:
The kingdom of God lives within us. We live out of that kingdom. Being led by His Voice as He speaks. Whether in scripture or just revelation truth, He makes His will and understanding of truth known by His Voice. If we ask.

Our victory is out of being seated in the heavenly places with Him. This is our rest. He sat down, we sit down with Him ending our working to please Him by fleshly ways, and do the things of Spirit.

We are saved by blood, and kept by blood. Blood is our Passover and we pass from death to His life.
Pentecost is the power to live but it is Power of Holy Spirit not our own.

That is what we are saying. We rest in His work. We work out of our rest. It's just that simple.
Click to expand...
 
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