Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Again I will state....those who teach that they must REMAIN to keep salvation take the emphasis off of Christ and put it squarely upon self and what one does or does not do...This is a false dogma...death has been swallowed up in VICTORY over sin and death....the victory is in JESUS and the fact that he has overcome and that is what we acknowledge in FAITH....for one to LOSE or FORFEIT salvation JESUS must fail....HE MUST fail in his work, his promises, his power over sin and death......to believe one can walk away and lose it denies verb tense, the promises of JESUS, the power of GOD, the very verbiage of salvation, eternal, uttermost, kept, sealed, everlasting etc....it is satanic at it's core and false......
People who hold to a belief of Grace plus works to keep you saved, like Phart, and use the false acronym, OSAS, are not shinning the light of the true gospel. They are using their human wisdom to try and formulate a gospel that fits into there small theological belief's. Its like this; If Noah said to Phart come inside the Ark and God will save you, Phart would say okay but what do I have to do once I'm in the Ark to keep me saved, foolish human thinking.
This idea is not enlightening and only leads to despair and fearful thoughts that you will lose you eternal salvation. Phart's gospel is not standing on a firm foundation which is Christ Jesus. He is laying a different foundation called, pride/works. Surrendering your whole life to God and then trusting and obeying Him, because we love our Heavenly Father, true gospel.
Good post Decon.....
"For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness, is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ." 2Corinthians4:6
"For with you is the fountain of life; in your light we see light." Psalm36:9
This idea is not enlightening and only leads to despair and fearful thoughts that you will lose you eternal salvation. Phart's gospel is not standing on a firm foundation which is Christ Jesus. He is laying a different foundation called, pride/works. Surrendering your whole life to God and then trusting and obeying Him, because we love our Heavenly Father, true gospel.
Good post Decon.....
"For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness, is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ." 2Corinthians4:6
"For with you is the fountain of life; in your light we see light." Psalm36:9
People who hold to a belief of Grace plus works to keep you saved, like Phart, and use the false acronym, OSAS, are not shinning the light of the true gospel. They are using their human wisdom to try and formulate a gospel that fits into there small theological belief's. Its like this; If Noah said to Phart come inside the Ark and God will save you, Phart would say okay but what do I have to do once I'm in the Ark to keep me saved, foolish human thinking.
This idea is not enlightening and only leads to despair and fearful thoughts that you will lose you eternal salvation. Phart's gospel is not standing on a firm foundation which is Christ Jesus. He is laying a different foundation called, pride/works. Surrendering your whole life to God and then trusting and obeying Him, because we love our Heavenly Father, true gospel.
Good post Decon.....
"For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness, is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ." 2Corinthians4:6
"For with you is the fountain of life; in your light we see light." Psalm36:9
This idea is not enlightening and only leads to despair and fearful thoughts that you will lose you eternal salvation. Phart's gospel is not standing on a firm foundation which is Christ Jesus. He is laying a different foundation called, pride/works. Surrendering your whole life to God and then trusting and obeying Him, because we love our Heavenly Father, true gospel.
Good post Decon.....
"For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness, is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ." 2Corinthians4:6
"For with you is the fountain of life; in your light we see light." Psalm36:9
Those who believe in eternal salvation based upon faith thru grace place the emphasis and light upon JESUS and only JESUS...he gets the glory.
Those who teach it can be lost or maintained by what they do will take the emphasis and light off of JESUS and in so doing place it square on their shoulders....THEY get the glory....
It is all his work and ALL glory goes unto JESUS...he saves to the uttermost and keeps us saved by his POWER.....if I can lose it by what I DO or do not do...he is not that much of a God, weak and cannot keep his promises.
FOR THE RECORD...I believe he ALWAYS keeps his promises, is ALL powerful and is the ONE true GOD of heaven and earth.......HE will finish and complete that work of faith he began in us while saving to the uttermost and keeping us by his power.........!
Amen Decon, it has aways been, God is Mighty to save, from Genesis to revelation and God's Son is front and center of all that God does for His people. Thanks for keeping God's light shinning. I alway's think after reading Phart's post's that he is trying to disprove the true gospel and lead people down a bind path to nowhere. You almost have to stand on your head and read the bible upside down and backwards to get his meaning.
Matthew 11:28-30 Jesus said [FONT="]“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”...This is wonderful for those who believe they have to work for their salvation...I came to realize that all my self effort left me drained and defeated, every time I was working in my own strength I failed , I realized that I was hearing the Word of God but not doing, I only found this out when God drew me back to these words and only then I wrote them on my heart...Yes we are to do good works unto the Lord, but not in our own strength, it`s tiring and stunts our growth, I still have so much to learn, but thank God for He is leading me away from what I thought was right in my own doing, I am weak but strong in Him, I fall but He lifts me,I sin and He washes me continually in His Living water...If we go about drawing from our own strength, is that not being disobedient Christ died so we could live abundantly in Him, I have no righteousness of my own, only if I rely on myself, this displeases God, we are to walk in Gods righteousness that Christ has given us, and when things get tough like they have been these past two days for me, I hold on to Matthew 11:28-30 and rest in Jesus and not struggle to do it my way...Sorry for post, but this is where I am at from working to resting...xox...All the Glory to God...[/FONT]
Christ died so we could live abundantly in Him, I have no righteousness of my own, only if I rely on myself, this displeases God, we are to walk in Gods righteousness that Christ has given us, and when things get tough like they have been these past two days for me, I hold on to Matthew 11:28-30 and rest in Jesus and not struggle to do it my way...Sorry for post, but this is where I am at from working to resting...xox...All the Glory to God...[/FONT]
People who hold to a belief of Grace plus works to keep you saved, like Phart, and use the false acronym, OSAS, are not shinning the light of the true gospel. They are using their human wisdom to try and formulate a gospel that fits into there small theological belief's. Its like this; If Noah said to Phart come inside the Ark and God will save you, Phart would say okay but what do I have to do once I'm in the Ark to keep me saved, foolish human thinking.
This idea is not enlightening and only leads to despair and fearful thoughts that you will lose you eternal salvation. Phart's gospel is not standing on a firm foundation which is Christ Jesus. He is laying a different foundation called, pride/works. Surrendering your whole life to God and then trusting and obeying Him, because we love our Heavenly Father, true gospel.
Good post Decon.....
"For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness, is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ." 2Corinthians4:6
"For with you is the fountain of life; in your light we see light." Psalm36:9
This idea is not enlightening and only leads to despair and fearful thoughts that you will lose you eternal salvation. Phart's gospel is not standing on a firm foundation which is Christ Jesus. He is laying a different foundation called, pride/works. Surrendering your whole life to God and then trusting and obeying Him, because we love our Heavenly Father, true gospel.
Good post Decon.....
"For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness, is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ." 2Corinthians4:6
"For with you is the fountain of life; in your light we see light." Psalm36:9
When I say works I'm talking about the type of works that has been discussed on this thread, i.e. Don't drink don't smoke what do you do (lyrics from a song)
Yes If I know Phart he is not a OSAS person.
He believes that a believer can struggle with sin for their whole life and that sin is forgiven on account of Jesus for those who believe in Jesus and have accepted his offer of salvation. Even though they struggle yet still call out to God.
My understanding is that the only sin that is not forgiven is unbelief in Jesus and to reject him and therefore atonement for this sin cannot and is not covered.
If memory serves me his view on wilful sin as mentioned in Hebrews is the deliberate sin to totally reject Jesus.
Which I think he believes can happen to a believer, go from belief to total rejection of Jesus, hence why he is not a OSAS proponent.
I have known him for a while now and we do disagree on OSAS doctrine but one thing I do know is that if I went to him and was really struggling with a sin issue he would walk and talk with me and help.
He would do this because he would know by the very fact that I am seeking help is because I want it, because I haven't totally rejected Jesus
We are all brothers and sisters in Christ despite our doctrinal differences.
Yet at the end of the day what we build on will be tested, some of it will be precious and some of it will be crap.
The crap is burned up yet we are still saved.
Mr Phart please correct me if I am wrong concerning what I have posted concerning my understanding of what you believe and are saying.
Anyone willfully claiming and letting others believe they are a gift of God in ministry and then recants, repents and asks forgiveness for lying about, obtains that forgiveness, really has no business throwing rocks.
Proverbs 25.14
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Whoso boasteth himself of a false gift is like clouds and wind without rain.
If a person willfully lies about being a Gift in the kingdom in such a precious role as missionary and they never were. Then they willfully continue to let other brothers and sisters believe they were, even though they finally repent and ask forgiveness.
Well, two things come to mind. One I cannot be fully convinced they are a Vet and are sick. There are many posing as military vets in efforts to get their medical bills paid or just fraud people out of money. Two, they have no business acting so self-righteous and pious and then outright attack others and intentionally seek to destroy others.
Posers in the kingdom are often posers in other areas of their life. Kingdom posers hide under religion and suggest they engage in truth talk and act like you do, all in the effort to hide who they really are or be bigger than who they are because of deep seated jealousy and envy of others.Military posers do it to steal honor and glory for themselves, because they were never what, where or who they claim to be. This again, is because of deep seated jealousy and envy because they could never be content with who they were and what they did to serve their country. People should forgive you and the Bible is clear concerning you, you are clouds and winds without rain.
Proverbs 25.14
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Whoso boasteth himself of a false gift is like clouds and wind without rain.
If a person willfully lies about being a Gift in the kingdom in such a precious role as missionary and they never were. Then they willfully continue to let other brothers and sisters believe they were, even though they finally repent and ask forgiveness.
Well, two things come to mind. One I cannot be fully convinced they are a Vet and are sick. There are many posing as military vets in efforts to get their medical bills paid or just fraud people out of money. Two, they have no business acting so self-righteous and pious and then outright attack others and intentionally seek to destroy others.
Posers in the kingdom are often posers in other areas of their life. Kingdom posers hide under religion and suggest they engage in truth talk and act like you do, all in the effort to hide who they really are or be bigger than who they are because of deep seated jealousy and envy of others.Military posers do it to steal honor and glory for themselves, because they were never what, where or who they claim to be. This again, is because of deep seated jealousy and envy because they could never be content with who they were and what they did to serve their country. People should forgive you and the Bible is clear concerning you, you are clouds and winds without rain.
Last edited:
I was thinking the same thing....especially since TruthTalk publically called himself out and apologized.......it is one thing to stand against dogma, doctrine or perceived false teaching....and an entirely different thing to point the fingers at one who sinned and then got right....his last line was used to describe a lost man....
When it comes to sin....He that is without sin cast the first stone.......
When it comes to sin....He that is without sin cast the first stone.......