Let's kill the anti-rhetoric concerning missions
- Thread starter SovereignGrace
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
D
Love isn't salvation. Love isn't election. Love isn't sanctification. When did this get into choice = love/election/salivation on Man's part? And yet, you just said Joshua chose to love God. We were never talking about Man's choice to love. We were talking about God choosing whom he would save.
And you're right. We do not divide wheat from tare. Jesus does. AND Jesus did! He did it often in Gospel of John. I thought you just said you read the Bible.
You're changing words to fit what you want, instead of sticking to what has been said.
And you're right. We do not divide wheat from tare. Jesus does. AND Jesus did! He did it often in Gospel of John. I thought you just said you read the Bible.
You're changing words to fit what you want, instead of sticking to what has been said.
D
Then back to how did you decide? Surely, you spent time thinking it out. What were the pros and what were the cons?
BTW, you're the one bringing "love" into this. This whole thread is about God's choice and what "Calvinists" do about mission work, but somehow you slipped off those things and turned it into Man choosing love.
BTW, you're the one bringing "love" into this. This whole thread is about God's choice and what "Calvinists" do about mission work, but somehow you slipped off those things and turned it into Man choosing love.
D
I sure hope you chose some day reason over fly-fishing. Just because suddenly you start playing "man chooses love" to avoid "God chooses who he elects," doesn't really mean anyone believes you're being reasonable, or even logical.
I can choose liver or pizza too, but it has nothing to do with God's election.
Bait and switch might fool some people, but when they go into a store to buy an air-conditioner but only see tires? It no one will buy the tires instead.
And you think I can't reason?
I can choose liver or pizza too, but it has nothing to do with God's election.
Bait and switch might fool some people, but when they go into a store to buy an air-conditioner but only see tires? It no one will buy the tires instead.
And you think I can't reason?
Did he also say that no one comes to the Father but by (dia) me?
And there is something that needs to be considered in the context of John 6:44 - Is the context regarding the resurrection, i.e. eternal life? I am the bread of life: he that comes to me shall never hunger; and he that believes on me shall never thirst. All that the Father gives me shall come to me; and him that comes to me I will in no wise cast out. . . . how do we come to Christ? Through belief in him How do we come to the Father? through belief in the Son (no one comes to the Father but by (dia) me). Who does the Father give to the Son? Those that believe in the Son. So this is it: he that comes to me, he that believes on me shall never hunger or thirst . . . this is the will of Him that sent me that every one which sees the Son, and believes on him, may have eternal life and I will raise him up at the last day . . . No man can come to me unless the Father draws (the subjunctive mood which is the mood of possibility and potentiality. The action described may or may not occur, depending upon circumstances) him and I will raise him up on the last day. . . those that the Father gives him - those that believe are those that the Father draws and those that believe are the ones who will be raised to eternal life on the last day. . . . Just thinking out loud
There is a condition set forth in order for one to be raised to eternal life . . . belief in the only begotten Son of God.
It says "Many" are called (to the wedding feast) - but few are chosen . . . MANY (great, much, large) are called but only those who believe are chosen.
And there is something that needs to be considered in the context of John 6:44 - Is the context regarding the resurrection, i.e. eternal life? I am the bread of life: he that comes to me shall never hunger; and he that believes on me shall never thirst. All that the Father gives me shall come to me; and him that comes to me I will in no wise cast out. . . . how do we come to Christ? Through belief in him How do we come to the Father? through belief in the Son (no one comes to the Father but by (dia) me). Who does the Father give to the Son? Those that believe in the Son. So this is it: he that comes to me, he that believes on me shall never hunger or thirst . . . this is the will of Him that sent me that every one which sees the Son, and believes on him, may have eternal life and I will raise him up at the last day . . . No man can come to me unless the Father draws (the subjunctive mood which is the mood of possibility and potentiality. The action described may or may not occur, depending upon circumstances) him and I will raise him up on the last day. . . those that the Father gives him - those that believe are those that the Father draws and those that believe are the ones who will be raised to eternal life on the last day. . . . Just thinking out loud
There is a condition set forth in order for one to be raised to eternal life . . . belief in the only begotten Son of God.It says "Many" are called (to the wedding feast) - but few are chosen . . . MANY (great, much, large) are called but only those who believe are chosen.
Last edited:
D
There's the problem -- sticking to topic is "vague" to you, while snide works for you. Every time I answer you directly, you skip right over that to find something else in the thread that's quicker and easier to mock. I've been clear to you for over a month now, and every time you do not question or even react to it. Instead you wait to make some kind of snide comment to someone, anyone, but me. Until, I'm less specific, and then you can go snide there.
As I've said you neither walk the walk, nor talk the talk.
It's not me, Babe!
As I've said you neither walk the walk, nor talk the talk.
It's not me, Babe!
First and for most I know you understand that ........ means that is not the end of the story.
Second....no matter how one slices and dices the command to Love God and our neighbor is given in the O.T. and reiterated in the NEW by both JESUS and JOHN.....
Having said that.......the beginning point is any man's walk with God is the fear of GOD and LOVE is commanded......it is to be supplanted with LOVE given freely as the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts due to maturity and spiritual growth.........not because we loved him, but because he loved us and gave himself for us.....
Willy, I like you man....sometimes you jump to conclusions about the belief of some before all of the facts have been given and or are presented........
A new commandment that I give you...That you love one another as I have loved you.
Second....no matter how one slices and dices the command to Love God and our neighbor is given in the O.T. and reiterated in the NEW by both JESUS and JOHN.....
Having said that.......the beginning point is any man's walk with God is the fear of GOD and LOVE is commanded......it is to be supplanted with LOVE given freely as the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts due to maturity and spiritual growth.........not because we loved him, but because he loved us and gave himself for us.....
Willy, I like you man....sometimes you jump to conclusions about the belief of some before all of the facts have been given and or are presented........
A new commandment that I give you...That you love one another as I have loved you.
You are right love isn't salvation - but salvation has been offered to us through God's love for us - so love must play a part somewhere in the equation especially since it is the first and great commandment. Anyway sticking to the subject - plain and simple - Joshua made a choice NOT to serve idols but to serve God.
Jesus did discern spiritual matters all the time . . . but he will not separate the wheat from the tares until the time of harvest when he sends in his reapers - there are still "tares" growing in the midst of the "wheat"!
Jesus did discern spiritual matters all the time . . . but he will not separate the wheat from the tares until the time of harvest when he sends in his reapers - there are still "tares" growing in the midst of the "wheat"!
Get with the program willie! Play the grace lottery today, ya never know.
Heres one dime from the great reformer luther:
"This error of free will is a special doctrine of the Antichrist."
What a character, all this coming from the same guy who brought us anti-semitic writings (used during WWII, he was a hero in germany), approved of getting drunk and even adviced another guy to do so, used words like "sin boldly" (of course its outta context, i already know). Yeah. The europeans switched one evil (indulgences etc) to another.
Luther was a complete weirdo, dont know why people wanna join a church with his name on it, even today the most liberal of the liberal churches dont dare say what Luther did.
I think the sin boldly comment came from the idea that salvation is purely positional, and not actually visible in anyway, this is what happens when ya let lawyers invent doctrines.
And Willie-T we rarely agree, but this time you are spot on, if it aint voluntarily love for God, it aint real love.
Heres one dime from the great reformer luther:
"This error of free will is a special doctrine of the Antichrist."
What a character, all this coming from the same guy who brought us anti-semitic writings (used during WWII, he was a hero in germany), approved of getting drunk and even adviced another guy to do so, used words like "sin boldly" (of course its outta context, i already know). Yeah. The europeans switched one evil (indulgences etc) to another.
Luther was a complete weirdo, dont know why people wanna join a church with his name on it, even today the most liberal of the liberal churches dont dare say what Luther did.
I think the sin boldly comment came from the idea that salvation is purely positional, and not actually visible in anyway, this is what happens when ya let lawyers invent doctrines.
And Willie-T we rarely agree, but this time you are spot on, if it aint voluntarily love for God, it aint real love.
How did I decide? What part of it did you not understand? Love and salvation are not defined the same but IMHO love has a lot to do with salvation . . . . You are only given salvation through God's grace and God's love and it is achieved only through faith (belief, trust) in Jesus Christ. . . . . but I will try not to mention it again.
LOL - the thread was derailed a few times before I came along!
LOL - the thread was derailed a few times before I came along!
Let me get this straight so that I don't jump to any conclusions. ☺
Are you saying you love the crotchety old SOB across the street who yells at your children and calls the cops on you? And this love you feel for him is generated from you being told to love him? That is what you think "If you love me, you will keep my commandments" means?
I'll hold up there so you can work slowly through answering only this small amount, helping me see what you believe, a little at a time.
But, I WILL say this much. I don't think that verse means: "It proves you love me if you keep those commandments."
I see it saying: "The degree and depth of the actual love you have for me will be shown in how you treat others through the manner of you making my commandments an active part of your daily interactions with even your obnoxious neighbors there on Earth."
Are you saying you love the crotchety old SOB across the street who yells at your children and calls the cops on you? And this love you feel for him is generated from you being told to love him? That is what you think "If you love me, you will keep my commandments" means?
I'll hold up there so you can work slowly through answering only this small amount, helping me see what you believe, a little at a time.
But, I WILL say this much. I don't think that verse means: "It proves you love me if you keep those commandments."
I see it saying: "The degree and depth of the actual love you have for me will be shown in how you treat others through the manner of you making my commandments an active part of your daily interactions with even your obnoxious neighbors there on Earth."
Last edited:
Love is an action not a wishy, washy feel good emotion.....it works no ill toward your neighbor and covers a multitude of sin....and I agree with your last line......all I am saying is that love as a commandment starts as a commandment and over time, growth and maturity is supplanted with a way of life and lifestyle of love that is seen in what you do and how you treat the others around you......
My biggest problem with most of Christiandom today is the simple fact that it has been reduced to a religion and or a religious exercise......biblical Christianity is a way of life not a religion and I view our approach to service the same way I view how a child is brought up....at first they are told what to do, whipped, kept in line, disciplined and rewarded based upon their actions and deeds....as they mature and see the benefit and or possible outcome of their actions (reward, praise or punishment) their attitudes, characteristics and actions are change, molded and fine tuned....eventually they mature and go on to lead productive lives (or not) based up how they were raised UP......
To me this mirrors our spiritual walk and or level of biblical Christianity........we as children on milk are commanded and instructed how to walk, talk, live etc.......as we progress in maturity and seeing God work in our lives in blessing and or an occasional butt whipping, our walk, life and actions change, grow and mature.....the same in my mind is true with love.....
As a kid my brother and I fought like cats and dogs and had to constantly be told to love each other and how to treat each other...I bet we wrote the Cain and Abel story 1000 times as kids.....and as we matured as brothers, our love for each other began to grow and mature and now we no longer need to be told....it is evident based upon how we treat each other.......
That is how I view it
My biggest problem with most of Christiandom today is the simple fact that it has been reduced to a religion and or a religious exercise......biblical Christianity is a way of life not a religion and I view our approach to service the same way I view how a child is brought up....at first they are told what to do, whipped, kept in line, disciplined and rewarded based upon their actions and deeds....as they mature and see the benefit and or possible outcome of their actions (reward, praise or punishment) their attitudes, characteristics and actions are change, molded and fine tuned....eventually they mature and go on to lead productive lives (or not) based up how they were raised UP......
To me this mirrors our spiritual walk and or level of biblical Christianity........we as children on milk are commanded and instructed how to walk, talk, live etc.......as we progress in maturity and seeing God work in our lives in blessing and or an occasional butt whipping, our walk, life and actions change, grow and mature.....the same in my mind is true with love.....
As a kid my brother and I fought like cats and dogs and had to constantly be told to love each other and how to treat each other...I bet we wrote the Cain and Abel story 1000 times as kids.....and as we matured as brothers, our love for each other began to grow and mature and now we no longer need to be told....it is evident based upon how we treat each other.......
That is how I view it