The two witnesses

[nddreamer]

I'm with gdyloves.
"John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." Jesus means the word of God.
"Deut. 31:24-26 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a "witness" against thee."
This is the Old Testament.
"Matt. 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a "witness" unto all nations; and then shall the end come."
This is the New Testament.
"Rev. 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days (1260 days)."
This is called the times of the Gentiles (1260 days).
"Rev. 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half."
The 3 days and a half are 3 1/2 years of the Jewish sacred calendar. Each year is 360 days. So 360 times 3 = 1080 plus 1/2 year or 180 days = 1260 days or the times of the Gentiles.
The two witnesses couldn't be much deader in our streets. In some areas of our country, those who practice and keep the faith are mocked and scorned. This is what it means when it's written, "Rev. 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified."
Sodom means a place where people practice all kinds of perversions. Egypt means a place where people lust for all things worldly. Sounds a lot like our world today.
People who have the faith should cling to it no matter what because of this verse. "Rev. 11:12 And they (the faithful) heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud."
This is the rapture. After this, great judgments fall on the earth.
The two witnesses are the two covenants of the Bible - the Old and New Testaments.

 

[gdyloves]

Have you read the whole bible before? Beginning to End?

Yes, although there are certain books in the bible that I have read about 10 times and then there are a few I've only read about 2 times..

SO what are you trying to say I don't know the bible?

 

[kaijo]

Yes, although there are certain books in the bible that I have read about 10 times and then there are a few I've only read about 2 times..

SO what are you trying to say I don't know the bible?

I am just wondering what parts you read, so i can see the logic that came from those parts.....which lead you to the possibility that satan would be one of the 2 witnesses. Thats all.

Im All For hearing alternate interpretations. As long as the logic can be seen in the verses that you can provide.

 

[gdyloves]

I am just wondering what parts you read, so i can see the logic that came from those parts.....which lead you to the possibility that satan would be one of the 2 witnesses. Thats all.

Im All For hearing alternate interpretations. As long as the logic can be seen in the verses that you can provide.

Well i just dont think they are Elijah and Moses.
And besides not everything that goes up to heaven from the beginning until now was always good. Lucifer was allowed to go back and forth to heaven after adam and Eve's fall. I know that the anti christ will trick Gods people into thinking he is the christ its gonna come down to whom do I belong to.

But either way these are just thoughts and thats why I asked for others thoughts.

 

[Ellsworth1943]

Well i just dont think they are Elijah and Moses.
And besides not everything that goes up to heaven from the beginning until now was always good. Lucifer was allowed to go back and forth to heaven after adam and Eve's fall. I know that the anti christ will trick Gods people into thinking he is the christ its gonna come down to whom do I belong to.

But either way these are just thoughts and thats why I asked for others thoughts.

I believe you are mistaken that the anti-Christ will trick God's people into thinking he is the Christ.
We will know if we are truly saved.

 

[Johnny_B]

Could it be possible that the two witnesses could be 1 man? You know how a lot of times in the bible people have two names like say Paul for instance (this is just an example) could the 2 witnesses refer to Saul and Paul?
Saul when he was bad and Paul when he was good? One mans testimony as saul and again as paul?

No because the two witnesses are present at the same time. Saul was the unsaved Paul.

We need to look to Scripture to know what this means. Hebrews 9:27-28 “And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.”

There are many that say the two witnesses are Moses and Elijah to prepresent the Law and the Prophets, and because of what Revelation 11:4-6 say it sounds like what Elijiah and Moses did.

“These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.5 And if anyone would harm them, fire pours from their mouth and consumes their foes. If anyone would harm them, this is how he is doomed to be killed.6 They have the power to shut the sky, that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague, as often as they desire.”


But with Hebrews 9:27 we need to look to Scripture to see if there are any men that have not died and we see two men.

Genesis 5:24 “Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him.”

II Kings 2:9-12a-d “When they had crossed, Elijah said to Elisha, “Ask what I shall do for you, before I am taken from you.” And Elisha said, “Please let there be a double portion of your spirit on me.”10 And he said, “You have asked a hard thing; yet, if you see me as I am being taken from you, it shall be so for you, but if you do not see me, it shall not be so.”11 And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.12 And Elisha saw it and he cried, “My father, my father! The chariots of Israel and its horsemen!” And he saw him no more.”

So by looking at the Scriptures we see that two men have not died, so to fulfill the Scripture the two witnesses that are killed with two men not passing through death it would seem that for the Scripture to be fulfilled they have to expirience death.

Revelation 11:7-8 “And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them,8 and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.”

 

[dcontroversal]

Nothing said about "the entire world", it's not even implied as the majority of revelation is centered on the city of the whore Jerusalem and judgment for killing the prophets:

Rev 18:20 “Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you saints and apostles and prophets, because God has pronounced judgment for you against her.”

The above judgment was carried out on 1st century Jerusalem just as Jesus stated:

Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Your futurist "theology" is totally out of sync with both Jesus and John's Revelation.



I do honour the truth, not your out of context musings such as on Isaiah 14:26 - traditions of men you keep promulgating.

Not hardly.......all you push is another man's regurgitated ignorance......context alone concerning the two witnesses and the verbiage used discredits your view.

 

[dcontroversal]

I believe you are mistaken that the anti-Christ will trick God's people into thinking he is the Christ.
We will know if we are truly saved.

AMEN.........and I agree!

 

[John146]

Revelation 11:6 "These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will."

They have the power to shut heaven so that it will not rain upon the earth. This tells us who one of the witnesses are for sure when we look at the book of James.

James 5:17 "Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months."

One of the witnesses is the Prophet Elijah who has the power to shut the heaven to cease rain for 3 1/2 years. Elijah stood before the Lord and was present on the Mount of Transfiguration in Matthew 17 on the right side of the candlestick. The next witness was the person who was on the left side of the candlestick, which was Moses.

Look back up at Revelation 11:6 and notice the colon in the middle of the verse after the word "prophecy". The second clause applies to the other witness, which is Moses who has the power to turn water into blood and smite the earth with plagues. Sound familiar? It does if you have read the passages about Moses in the Old Testament.

Both Moses and Elijah stood before the Lord of the whole earth in both the New and Old Testament. Not only that, but both of them were anointed.

 

[Dino246]

...
One of the witnesses is the Prophet Elijah who has the power to shut the heaven to cease rain for 3 1/2 years. Elijah stood before the Lord and was present on the Mount of Transfiguration in Matthew 17 on the right side of the candlestick. The next witness was the person who was on the left side of the candlestick, which was Moses.

...

Psst... there aren't any "candlesticks" mentioned in Matthew 17. Not even in the KJV.

 

[Ellsworth1943]

The truth is that we just do not know who the two are. We know the facts that will easily identify them.
I see no point in speculating who they are or are not.

 

[joefizz]

The truth is that we just do not know who the two are. We know the facts that will easily identify them.
I see no point in speculating who they are or are not.

Well there is a "point" in speculating who they are for perhaps God may teach us the answer as we search for an answer together,and Elijah and Moses are very good candidates,just as Elijah and Enoch so as we all search for answers and we gather with "one mind and one accord" we may just learn the answer through the holy spirit,For God did not have these two witnesses written in the bible without naming outright who they are for nothing,it is another "test of faith" for the point is not "what are their names"!?
But rather do we believe that these two whom ever they are will propecy as written?
For surely we shall know them by their fruits,perhaps they shall come from heaven,perhaps from a multitude of people after growing older,but the point is that when we "know" they have come then we shall "know" how much closer the time of the beast is come and judgement day thereafter,what we do know of these two is that they shall propecy for about 3 and a half years,they shall be overcome and killed by satan,and they shall revive after a time that wicked people shall believe that they have been slain, no longer to speak against their wickedness but when they revive the wicked people shall be frightened and troubled once more.

 

[gdyloves]

Thank you all who replied for allowing me to see things from your point of view.
Christina

 

[joefizz]

The issue with this view is it is incorrect...

a. The entre world did not rejoice at their death
b. The did not go around calling down fire from heaven and stopping the rain for 3.5 years
c. The entire world did not give gifts to each other at their death
d. The entire world did not see them rise from the dead and fear
e. The entire world did not see them rise into the clouds
f. The beast out of the pit did not make war on them and kill them in Jerusalem
g. They did not lay dead for three days in the street
etc.

Face it and be honest....your view totally disregards scripture and is contrary to the truth..........when you can start admitting the error of your view you will then be on the path to actually knowing and honoring the truth.

must spread rep to give dcontroversal rep again,good post!

 

[joefizz]

Ok this might be out there but what about christ and the anti christ.
We know the anti christ will come and decieve many. And since God is in control of everything that means he allowed the
anti-christ to decieve . Could the two witnesses be the Christ and the anti-christ,
The righteous path and the sinful path?

No I appreciate that you are thinking on this but the problem with that idea is that it is written"the whole world rejoiced at their deaths for they had grieved them sore" you see Jesus brought Salvation which is good the anti christ shall bring death,lies,and blasphemy,which is bad,so the two witnesses are prophets of a well favoured sort by God because it is written well of them,in that whom ever hurts them,they shall be hurt in like manner,and out from the their mouths shall come fire.(words that will hurt the wicked for they shall be words speaking well of God and bringing to light how wrong their wicked works are through their words as if fire scorching them)

 

[John146]

Psst... there aren't any "candlesticks" mentioned in Matthew 17. Not even in the KJV.

Zechariah 4:11 "Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? 12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? 13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth."

 

[Ellsworth1943]

Well there is a "point" in speculating who they are for perhaps God may teach us the answer as we search for an answer together,and Elijah and Moses are very good candidates,just as Elijah and Enoch so as we all search for answers and we gather with "one mind and one accord" we may just learn the answer through the holy spirit,For God did not have these two witnesses written in the bible without naming outright who they are for nothing,it is another "test of faith" for the point is not "what are their names"!?
But rather do we believe that these two whom ever they are will propecy as written?
For surely we shall know them by their fruits,perhaps they shall come from heaven,perhaps from a multitude of people after growing older,but the point is that when we "know" they have come then we shall "know" how much closer the time of the beast is come and judgement day thereafter,what we do know of these two is that they shall propecy for about 3 and a half years,they shall be overcome and killed by satan,and they shall revive after a time that wicked people shall believe that they have been slain, no longer to speak against their wickedness but when they revive the wicked people shall be frightened and troubled once more.

Why would one doubt? The Bible states they will come, they will prophesy, they will be killed, they will lay in the street 3 1/2 days, they will stand up alive and be call up into Heaven.
I believe it will happen just as stated. I still see no need to speculate on who they are. We will know when they appear.
What confuses me are those who will argue and speculate when they believe in a pre-trip rapture. Why?

 

[joefizz]

Why would one doubt? The Bible states they will come, they will prophesy, they will be killed, they will lay in the street 3 1/2 days, they will stand up alive and be call up into Heaven.
I believe it will happen just as stated. I still see no need to speculate on who they are. We will know when they appear.
What confuses me are those who will argue and speculate when they believe in a pre-trip rapture. Why?

I don't doubt they will come to prophecy and have not a clue what pretrib is so I don't know an answer for that question.

 

[tourist]

One of the witnesses has to be Elijah as it has already been prophesied that he is coming back. I don't think that the other is Moses because he has already died and if he came back would have to die again.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello Ellsworh1943,

"Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near."

"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches."

"The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life."

We, the church, are to be proclaiming the words in Revelation and using it in our witnessing regarding the events contained in the book of Revelation and warning people of the wrath that is coming upon this earth which they will face without Christ as their Lord and savior.

The book of Revelation for the most part, is a detailed account of the day of the Lord, which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. Anyone who is in Christ will be removed prior to that time of wrath. As those in Christ, we should be watching for every opportunity that the Spirit gives us in conversation to tell people about Christ and to warn them of the coming wrath contained in Revelation. That said, a pre-trib gathering of the church has nothing to do with knowing and understanding the book of Revelation.