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I believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ and the tradition taught of us that we had received the sanctification of the Spirit and the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel.
If any one wants to depart from faith in Jesus Christ in seeking to receive what they claim is the Holy Spirit apart from salvation by a sign of tongues, you do so in dishonoring the Lord Jesus Christ.
If any one wants to depart from faith in Jesus Christ in seeking to receive what they claim is the Holy Spirit apart from salvation by a sign of tongues, you do so in dishonoring the Lord Jesus Christ.
My pennies worth. Start at: Ask and it will be given you (Matt 7:7.), it's really open to anything so if you asked for tongues during prayer You probably received the gift of tongues. And with use you got better at it.
All I know is that Jesus said without Love even tongues are pointless.
Mother tongue. A description of one's home language. So to me in my experience found a lot of wisdom in having the ability to speak more than one language.
As in London UK most speak English though many are not English. Do in Rome as the Romans do, would best show this need that in a given land the language of choice would be the local language.
So the apostles spoke the common language in Jerusalem as well as their own mother tongue. Within the English language alone there are many colloquial accents. Other languages have dialects. And as such even the common named language could be misunderstood by a fellow citizen.
Lastly. An emotional verbal expression without understandable vocabulary is called: To Abriaat (possibly misspelled). And is understood to be a release of deep emotion. After the Be attitudes, to those poor in spirit, Jesus say to John the Baptist : Accept It for now. As part of the healing process, acceptance is key. During acceptance there is the need to let go and in letting go of emotion, a person may abriaat or cry without verbal expression.
Make of this what you may. Given my story this works for me. My life has changed completely from 7 yrs ago.
Psalm 24:1 clearly states as below All and Everything on this planet belongs to God. The notion that bad things are not from God just is so contradictory to the Words in Psalm 24:1
The writing on Angels clearly states the Good v Bad was an Angel thing. All this also part of what belongs to God.
So each reference that It's either from God or is evil is actually inaccurate. This story is printed on paper and as such made possible here on Earth
And experienced in Life by the living. All teaching is that you only get opportunity to correct your relationship with God during Life and at death it's too late kinda cements this point.
Within this some seperate the daily life, from the spiritual But Psalm 24:1 alone cements Everything is due to God.
All I know is that Jesus said without Love even tongues are pointless.
Mother tongue. A description of one's home language. So to me in my experience found a lot of wisdom in having the ability to speak more than one language.
As in London UK most speak English though many are not English. Do in Rome as the Romans do, would best show this need that in a given land the language of choice would be the local language.
So the apostles spoke the common language in Jerusalem as well as their own mother tongue. Within the English language alone there are many colloquial accents. Other languages have dialects. And as such even the common named language could be misunderstood by a fellow citizen.
Lastly. An emotional verbal expression without understandable vocabulary is called: To Abriaat (possibly misspelled). And is understood to be a release of deep emotion. After the Be attitudes, to those poor in spirit, Jesus say to John the Baptist : Accept It for now. As part of the healing process, acceptance is key. During acceptance there is the need to let go and in letting go of emotion, a person may abriaat or cry without verbal expression.
Make of this what you may. Given my story this works for me. My life has changed completely from 7 yrs ago.
Psalm 24:1 clearly states as below All and Everything on this planet belongs to God. The notion that bad things are not from God just is so contradictory to the Words in Psalm 24:1
The writing on Angels clearly states the Good v Bad was an Angel thing. All this also part of what belongs to God.
So each reference that It's either from God or is evil is actually inaccurate. This story is printed on paper and as such made possible here on Earth
And experienced in Life by the living. All teaching is that you only get opportunity to correct your relationship with God during Life and at death it's too late kinda cements this point.
Within this some seperate the daily life, from the spiritual But Psalm 24:1 alone cements Everything is due to God.
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While Enow is correct in that there is no -separate- giving of the gift of the Holy Spirit that enables a Christian to operate the manifestations, he is dead wrong in stating Christians should not seek to speak in tongues, that in doing so we are dishonoring Jesus Christ.
The Bible says not to forbid speaking in tongues ( 1 Cor 14:39), and that all Christians can, and should, speak in tongues (1 Cor 12:7; 1 Cor 14:5) and that when a person speaks in tongues he is speaking the wonderful works of God, and magnifying God (Acts 2:11; 10:46), that he is giving thanks well (1 Cor 14:17), that he is edifying himself (1 Cor 14:4), and that when tongues is interpreted in the church, the church is edified (1 Cor 14:5).
The Bible says not to forbid speaking in tongues ( 1 Cor 14:39), and that all Christians can, and should, speak in tongues (1 Cor 12:7; 1 Cor 14:5) and that when a person speaks in tongues he is speaking the wonderful works of God, and magnifying God (Acts 2:11; 10:46), that he is giving thanks well (1 Cor 14:17), that he is edifying himself (1 Cor 14:4), and that when tongues is interpreted in the church, the church is edified (1 Cor 14:5).
I've given Three answers.
My asking as a 12yr old was for wisdom over money. To me I seem wiser than wealthy but I'm nowhere near dead.
What I experience now is a pain free existence. Reasonable social acceptance and my children stand by me once more.
All this against being a test tube for the medical industry.
Wisdom comes to those who understand the most words. It's easy to see how the upper classes speak verses the labour force.
Biblical wisdom comes to those that study language and it's origin. In it's origin there was utterance. Now it's education.
In Luke, wisdom is given the little one's. Clearly not the university professor.
Given there are books that use this undersanding of language origin to defend their judgement of the Bible for both historical and geographic error, there is great cause to use it to defend the Bible for it's Power.
My asking as a 12yr old was for wisdom over money. To me I seem wiser than wealthy but I'm nowhere near dead.
What I experience now is a pain free existence. Reasonable social acceptance and my children stand by me once more.
All this against being a test tube for the medical industry.
Wisdom comes to those who understand the most words. It's easy to see how the upper classes speak verses the labour force.
Biblical wisdom comes to those that study language and it's origin. In it's origin there was utterance. Now it's education.
In Luke, wisdom is given the little one's. Clearly not the university professor.
Given there are books that use this undersanding of language origin to defend their judgement of the Bible for both historical and geographic error, there is great cause to use it to defend the Bible for it's Power.
Jesus said: I am the alpha and the omega.
Those are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet.
So Jesus was Greek??? No he was educated in the temple.
The then only place of formal education.
In today's language, Jesus may have said I am the A and the Z.
As I live pain free I know this view works and find your view equal to the teaching of every church still. Still following the theology that feeds the priesthood at the parishioners expense.
Those are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet.
So Jesus was Greek??? No he was educated in the temple.
The then only place of formal education.
In today's language, Jesus may have said I am the A and the Z.
As I live pain free I know this view works and find your view equal to the teaching of every church still. Still following the theology that feeds the priesthood at the parishioners expense.
I have never been involved in it. I did some research on the topic. When someone speaks in tongues there must be a person who understands what is being said. Without that it is not Biblical. Whether that person tells what is being said depends on whether it is a private message or not. With the desciples they spoke the language of the persons they were speaking to. This probably should apply today.
Many people only pray in tongues at times. This comes from the heart and bypasses the conscious mind. I had a pastor who did that privately.
Many people only pray in tongues at times. This comes from the heart and bypasses the conscious mind. I had a pastor who did that privately.
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When the Bible text states this word: Will, then it means Will for those who Believe.
It is Doubt of this word: Will that fails many. It's not the word that is incorrect. It is the Doubt.
Doubt blokes prayer. Doubt breaks the confidence any human has.
And when someone says they believe no matter what and those around claim Doubt the lack of belief then manifests within the believer for the sake of social acceptance.
Fear of the pain association of rejection is our greatest fear, Yet, Jesus instructed and often enough, walked away. He experienced rejection, a ton of rejection and was, on a boat,
or at his family, when they found him. His greatest comment on this was walk once you remove even the dust from your sandals. That means reject those that reject you. Yes pretty harsh.
It is Doubt of this word: Will that fails many. It's not the word that is incorrect. It is the Doubt.
Doubt blokes prayer. Doubt breaks the confidence any human has.
And when someone says they believe no matter what and those around claim Doubt the lack of belief then manifests within the believer for the sake of social acceptance.
Fear of the pain association of rejection is our greatest fear, Yet, Jesus instructed and often enough, walked away. He experienced rejection, a ton of rejection and was, on a boat,
or at his family, when they found him. His greatest comment on this was walk once you remove even the dust from your sandals. That means reject those that reject you. Yes pretty harsh.
Tongues is the language of the Spirit man/woman.
It can be with our new birth or it can be a separate experience. It is seen in scripture as two experiences with the disciples and I don't agree with Shrume on his ideas about this. But, I love Shrume. Know him from another forum and consider him a close brother. We have the same Spirit which is unity.
It is for all who have been born from above.
It can be with our new birth or it can be a separate experience. It is seen in scripture as two experiences with the disciples and I don't agree with Shrume on his ideas about this. But, I love Shrume. Know him from another forum and consider him a close brother. We have the same Spirit which is unity.
It is for all who have been born from above.
To clarify to the readers per shrume; as you see that shrume agrees with me that there is no separate receiving of the Holy Spirit apart from salvation, yet I call to his mind and everybody that reads this that some tongue speakers has gained tongues without interpretation to be used privately that way.
Now some will say I am throwing the baby out with the bathwater by that guilt by association, but I believe God's gift of tongues is for ONLY speaking unto the people; not for route of some prayer language for the Holy Spirit and not for some means of self edification when it does not comes with interpretation because Paul himself did not understood it and had prayed for another to interpret that tongue so that he, himself, can be edified. That means tongues are not fruitful until interpreted for the tongue speaker to be truly edified by that tongue.
That is why I draw the line, not only by saying it is not of Him when that kind of tongue is gained by apostasy, but the real God's gift of tongues is for speaking unto the people to be understood by the people as the tongue speaker should pray for that interpretation so that he may understand what was said for that tongue to edify him by and be really fruitful to himself.
See what shrume has written? Now how is that not confusion which God is not the author of? How can any tongue speaker can claim that tongues can come without interpretation when they do not know what that tongue is actually doing for them to "benefit" from that tongue?
That is what they get for pulling verses out of context of that chapter when Paul was comparing tongues against prophesy to show why prophesy is better because tongues is not a stand alone gift to be used privately.
It's like they use verse 2 as proof text that the tongue speaker is self edified, but ignore how Paul was comparing it against prophesy to show why prophesy is the better gift and you read onward, that same tongue in verse 2 has to be interpreted for the tongue speaker or else it is unfruitful being how the tongue speaker does not understand it; and Paul said that.
But they ignore those verses in favor of pulling verse 2 out of context of chapter 14.
If you read 1 Corinthians 12th chapter, the manifestations of the Spirit was to profit the body withal; not individually: vs 7.
Paul confirmed that by using the metaphor of the eye as a member of the body that cannot say to other members of the body that he has no need of others, and that is exactly what shrume is saying by listing all those "benefits" that they can have their own private worship service and have no need of others, albeit, they do not know what that tongue is doing at that moment. That is the epitome of confusion which God is not the author of.
1 Corinthians 12:[SUP]7 [/SUP]But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal......[SUP]19 [/SUP]And if they were all one member, where were the body?[SUP] 20 [/SUP]But now are they many members, yet but one body.[SUP] 21 [/SUP]And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
So tongue speakers will take verses out of context of 1 Corinthians 14th chapter to try to infer that tongues can be used without interpretation which is not the message Paul was giving in context of that chapter and also going against the precedent set in 1 Corinthians 12:7,19-21 on why tongues would never be for individual use.
So do not take your eyes off of Christ to seek the gift of tongues just because of all the supposed claims of the benefits of tongues without interpretation when Paul was exhorting believers to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gifts.
You really have to wonder why the spotlight is on tongues without interpretation, when that spotlight should be on the Lord Jesus Christ as tongues would come with interpretation to serve towards that end.
Now some will say I am throwing the baby out with the bathwater by that guilt by association, but I believe God's gift of tongues is for ONLY speaking unto the people; not for route of some prayer language for the Holy Spirit and not for some means of self edification when it does not comes with interpretation because Paul himself did not understood it and had prayed for another to interpret that tongue so that he, himself, can be edified. That means tongues are not fruitful until interpreted for the tongue speaker to be truly edified by that tongue.
That is why I draw the line, not only by saying it is not of Him when that kind of tongue is gained by apostasy, but the real God's gift of tongues is for speaking unto the people to be understood by the people as the tongue speaker should pray for that interpretation so that he may understand what was said for that tongue to edify him by and be really fruitful to himself.
See what shrume has written? Now how is that not confusion which God is not the author of? How can any tongue speaker can claim that tongues can come without interpretation when they do not know what that tongue is actually doing for them to "benefit" from that tongue?
That is what they get for pulling verses out of context of that chapter when Paul was comparing tongues against prophesy to show why prophesy is better because tongues is not a stand alone gift to be used privately.
It's like they use verse 2 as proof text that the tongue speaker is self edified, but ignore how Paul was comparing it against prophesy to show why prophesy is the better gift and you read onward, that same tongue in verse 2 has to be interpreted for the tongue speaker or else it is unfruitful being how the tongue speaker does not understand it; and Paul said that.
But they ignore those verses in favor of pulling verse 2 out of context of chapter 14.
If you read 1 Corinthians 12th chapter, the manifestations of the Spirit was to profit the body withal; not individually: vs 7.
Paul confirmed that by using the metaphor of the eye as a member of the body that cannot say to other members of the body that he has no need of others, and that is exactly what shrume is saying by listing all those "benefits" that they can have their own private worship service and have no need of others, albeit, they do not know what that tongue is doing at that moment. That is the epitome of confusion which God is not the author of.
1 Corinthians 12:[SUP]7 [/SUP]But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal......[SUP]19 [/SUP]And if they were all one member, where were the body?[SUP] 20 [/SUP]But now are they many members, yet but one body.[SUP] 21 [/SUP]And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
So tongue speakers will take verses out of context of 1 Corinthians 14th chapter to try to infer that tongues can be used without interpretation which is not the message Paul was giving in context of that chapter and also going against the precedent set in 1 Corinthians 12:7,19-21 on why tongues would never be for individual use.
So do not take your eyes off of Christ to seek the gift of tongues just because of all the supposed claims of the benefits of tongues without interpretation when Paul was exhorting believers to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gifts.
You really have to wonder why the spotlight is on tongues without interpretation, when that spotlight should be on the Lord Jesus Christ as tongues would come with interpretation to serve towards that end.
Regarding the bolded part: please post your source for this. It looks like you are conflating edification with fruitfulness. If Paul had meant they were one and the same, he probably would have used the same word.
Incorrect; the "out of context" issue is bogus, as I have addressed in another post. 1 Corinthians 12 does not state "why tongues would never be for individual use." This is eisegesis on your part. It does say for the building up of the body; that is not at issue. You are inferring that edification of the tongue-speaker is therefore excluded, when it is not specifically excluded.
Does the healing of one person directly benefit the whole body? Does the giving of a specific word of knowledge or wisdom directly benefit the whole body? Your reasoning is flawed on this point.
What makes you think anyone is taking their eyes off of Christ? In my observation, the ones who speak in tongues are more focused on Christ, not less.
For the answer, you only need to consider how often you post on this topic. You are putting the spotlight on it, repeatedly.
Incorrect; the "out of context" issue is bogus, as I have addressed in another post. 1 Corinthians 12 does not state "why tongues would never be for individual use." This is eisegesis on your part. It does say for the building up of the body; that is not at issue. You are inferring that edification of the tongue-speaker is therefore excluded, when it is not specifically excluded.
Does the healing of one person directly benefit the whole body? Does the giving of a specific word of knowledge or wisdom directly benefit the whole body? Your reasoning is flawed on this point.
What makes you think anyone is taking their eyes off of Christ? In my observation, the ones who speak in tongues are more focused on Christ, not less.
For the answer, you only need to consider how often you post on this topic. You are putting the spotlight on it, repeatedly.
Please continue researching by reading 1 Corinthians 14 very carefully. Verse 28 says clearly, "but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak privately to himself and to God." (NASB)
Paul does not forbid or decry speaking in tongues without an interpreter. He says that in order for the church to be edified, there must be an interpretation; only speaking tongues aloud in the assembly is conditional. Without one, what is the tongue-speaker to do? He is to keep it between himself and God - privately.
If speaking in tongues without an interpreter were "not Biblical" as you put it, there would need to be a direct admonition not to speak in tongues at all rather than an admonition to keep it to oneself, and the direction to "pray that he might interpret" would be meaningless.
Paul does not forbid or decry speaking in tongues without an interpreter. He says that in order for the church to be edified, there must be an interpretation; only speaking tongues aloud in the assembly is conditional. Without one, what is the tongue-speaker to do? He is to keep it between himself and God - privately.
If speaking in tongues without an interpreter were "not Biblical" as you put it, there would need to be a direct admonition not to speak in tongues at all rather than an admonition to keep it to oneself, and the direction to "pray that he might interpret" would be meaningless.
The Lord is helping me to trust in the His word that His sheep will follow His voice; they will not follow a stranger's voice which I believe is what tongues without interpretation gained by climbing up another way around the Son is, in getting that tongue.
That is not to say that those who follow the stranger's voice are not His, because He acknowledges other sheep that are not of the fold that follows His voice as they will be made to hear His voice, and be of the one fold & one shepherd. Of course, He will get them apart from the fold that follow His voice as those who follow His voice will be pre trib raptured and those saints left behind will be made to hear His voice because they will see Him as the King of kings after the great tribulation.
Read John 10:1-16 to see where He helped me to see that truth at this link to Bible Gateway.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+10:1-16&version=KJV
That is not to say that those who follow the stranger's voice are not His, because He acknowledges other sheep that are not of the fold that follows His voice as they will be made to hear His voice, and be of the one fold & one shepherd. Of course, He will get them apart from the fold that follow His voice as those who follow His voice will be pre trib raptured and those saints left behind will be made to hear His voice because they will see Him as the King of kings after the great tribulation.
Read John 10:1-16 to see where He helped me to see that truth at this link to Bible Gateway.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+10:1-16&version=KJV
1 Corinthians 13New International Version (NIV)
13 If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Matthew 10, 8 (NIV)
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a] drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.
So where does it say the rich or well among you??? Where???
The added commandment: Love the Lord your God with All your heart and mind And your neighbour as Your Self.
Well I'll assert this, when you are sick or dying or filled with demons and no neighbour gives you back some of the Love you willingly gave to the empty self is no empty, this is where Love then is found. God's unconditional Love. Kindness, care concern for the Self, till you can once again live in a way that allows for loving others.
If you can imagine having lost all and no one want to know you. Imagine the rejection. This is the typically homeless persons in today's view. Yes, some turn to those that lead them down the wrong road, with only those that turn to these words simply put. Apply self Love.
What's it mean. Apply 1 Corinthians 13.4. No one teaches this. It's always put as an outward thing. Given to others, yes empty yourself to others till you have nothing. Empty go wonder what's left. That's what's being taught.
Only those that know love can share it or it is empty. A duty. Pointless and unrewarding. Love is for sharing and sharing means give some. It does not mean Carry or Hold onto. When you know Love
As defined in 1 Corinthians, the Relationship within All the body, The body will work as one body. Word for word correct as written above. The language may be difficult. But it's word for word correct. Your hands would not work if the brain is missing. The brain could not get a missing hand to work. Goodness, if you not marvelling at this amazing physical function we have, yes, God will Take it away. It was given and can be taken away.
This extreme over complicated view was designed to blind us from the truth. Blind us that God dwells in each of us Yet it's printed in the Bible with these words: your body is God's Temple.
So that's all anyone need accept. If you truly accept God dwells within Without Doubt and Love the Presence of God within, whatever you ask, will happen for you. You body healed, your needs met. What you want however is not included. Needs are met for the birds of the sky, the leaves of the trees.
Needs. Food, shelter, and in time more and more. For the sick or broken. Where does it say we'll compete with Trillionaire status.
Where??? You entitled under your right to free will. That's where. Not in Jesus teaching though. Your Divine right to Life is maintained thru Love of God.
13 If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Matthew 10, 8 (NIV)
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a] drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.
So where does it say the rich or well among you??? Where???
The added commandment: Love the Lord your God with All your heart and mind And your neighbour as Your Self.
Well I'll assert this, when you are sick or dying or filled with demons and no neighbour gives you back some of the Love you willingly gave to the empty self is no empty, this is where Love then is found. God's unconditional Love. Kindness, care concern for the Self, till you can once again live in a way that allows for loving others.
If you can imagine having lost all and no one want to know you. Imagine the rejection. This is the typically homeless persons in today's view. Yes, some turn to those that lead them down the wrong road, with only those that turn to these words simply put. Apply self Love.
What's it mean. Apply 1 Corinthians 13.4. No one teaches this. It's always put as an outward thing. Given to others, yes empty yourself to others till you have nothing. Empty go wonder what's left. That's what's being taught.
Only those that know love can share it or it is empty. A duty. Pointless and unrewarding. Love is for sharing and sharing means give some. It does not mean Carry or Hold onto. When you know Love
As defined in 1 Corinthians, the Relationship within All the body, The body will work as one body. Word for word correct as written above. The language may be difficult. But it's word for word correct. Your hands would not work if the brain is missing. The brain could not get a missing hand to work. Goodness, if you not marvelling at this amazing physical function we have, yes, God will Take it away. It was given and can be taken away.
This extreme over complicated view was designed to blind us from the truth. Blind us that God dwells in each of us Yet it's printed in the Bible with these words: your body is God's Temple.
So that's all anyone need accept. If you truly accept God dwells within Without Doubt and Love the Presence of God within, whatever you ask, will happen for you. You body healed, your needs met. What you want however is not included. Needs are met for the birds of the sky, the leaves of the trees.
Needs. Food, shelter, and in time more and more. For the sick or broken. Where does it say we'll compete with Trillionaire status.
Where??? You entitled under your right to free will. That's where. Not in Jesus teaching though. Your Divine right to Life is maintained thru Love of God.
Since the tongue speaker cannot prove what he was doing the last time he or she spoke in tongues privately, given the variety of benefits that they claim tongues without interpretation does, I fail to see what the appeal is for any new believer other than glorifying in themselves of having an extra supernatural phenomenon to separate themselves from the average believers and to being able to babble privately with pride.
And some of those tongue speakers go on from there to glory in themselves for having yet another supernatural phenomenon where people fall down and lose self control by other ways too, again and again and again, and the tongue speakers that oppose those extra phenomenons where those wild encounters takes place, are actually opposing the same rudiment for which they had gained tongues by.
So hopefully, new believers will not fall for the hype to get tongues without interpretation to only be used privately by receiving the Holy spirit separate from salvation, because there really isn't anything to stop them from heeding another calling to receive the Holy Spirit after other signs too.
That is why there is no other calling but the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ for that is when we had received the sanctification of the Spirit and the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel. That is the tradition taught of us, as the majority of vain tongue speakers are departing from that tradition.
2 Thessalonians 2:[SUP]13 [/SUP]But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:[SUP] 14 [/SUP]Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.[SUP] 15 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
So may the Lord continue to keep the both of us in holding fast what we had been taught in serving the Lord Jesus Christ in seeking His glory rather than depart from faith in Him in seeking "vain glory" thereby, serving something else in His name.
And some of those tongue speakers go on from there to glory in themselves for having yet another supernatural phenomenon where people fall down and lose self control by other ways too, again and again and again, and the tongue speakers that oppose those extra phenomenons where those wild encounters takes place, are actually opposing the same rudiment for which they had gained tongues by.
So hopefully, new believers will not fall for the hype to get tongues without interpretation to only be used privately by receiving the Holy spirit separate from salvation, because there really isn't anything to stop them from heeding another calling to receive the Holy Spirit after other signs too.
That is why there is no other calling but the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ for that is when we had received the sanctification of the Spirit and the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel. That is the tradition taught of us, as the majority of vain tongue speakers are departing from that tradition.
2 Thessalonians 2:[SUP]13 [/SUP]But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:[SUP] 14 [/SUP]Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.[SUP] 15 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
So may the Lord continue to keep the both of us in holding fast what we had been taught in serving the Lord Jesus Christ in seeking His glory rather than depart from faith in Him in seeking "vain glory" thereby, serving something else in His name.
That's right. People receive the gift of the Holy Spirit one time, and that is when they hear the gospel and believe it (Eph 1:13).
Some people believe that they receive the ability to speak in tongues from a separate outpouring of the Holy Spirit, but it is not true. Any Christian has the ability to speak in tongues any time they want to, whether in public (a meeting) or in private. In a meeting, when spoken out loud, tongues must be interpreted.
You are. You insist that speaking in tongues must always be interpreted, and that if it's not interpreted, it is not of God, and people are not to do it. IOW, you are forbidding people to speak in tongues, something the Bible says you are not to do.
Your belief is wrong. When a person speaks in tongues, he is not speaking to men, but to God (1 Cor 14:2).
The Bible explicitly states that when a Christian speaks in tongues he is edifying himself (1 Cor 14:4).
When tongues is spoken out loud, generally speaking NOBODY understands unless it is interpreted (1 Cor 14:2).
When a person speaks in tongues in public, THAT PERSON is to be the one that interprets.
1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
That is not true, Enow. The Bible explicitly states that when a person speaks in tongues, he is edifying himself (1 Cor 14:4), he is speaking the wonderful works of God and magnifying God (Acts 2:11; 10:46), he is giving thanks well (1 Cor 14:17).
Speaking in tongues is never gained by apostasy.
This belief of yours that you have stated so many times directly contradicts 1 Cor 14:2. When a person speaks in tongues, he is speaking to God.
When done in public, tongues is to be interpreted so the church can be edified.
I am sorry that you are confused by my statements and the scriptures which back them up.
A person could decide to accept what the Bible says. It specifically states what tongues is good for, the things that it does.
Please explain what verses I have taken out of context.
You misunderstand what Paul is saying. In meetings, prophesy is better than tongues unless tongues is interpreted (1 Cor 14:5). If a person does not want to interpret, he should speak in tongues silently to himself and to God (1 Cor 14:28).
Verse 2 says nothing about the person speaking in tongues being edified. 1 Cor 14:4 specifically states that when a person speaks in tongues, he is edifying himself.
Neither speaking in tongues nor prophesy are gifts. They are manifestations of the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Again you misunderstand what Paul was saying. In meetings, when a person speaks in tongues he is to interpret, so the church can be edified.
Enow, you are the one who ignores what 1 Cor 14:2 is saying. You continually insist that tongues is God speaking to people. It's not. When a person speaks in tongues, he is speaking to God. Read the verse.
That's right. That's why when speaking in tongues is done in public, it must always be interpreted. But Paul specifically states in 1 Cor 14:28 that if a person does not want to interpret, he should speak in tongues to himself, and to God. Also, we are always to be praying in the spirit, which is speaking in tongues (1 Cor 14:15; Eph 6:18; Jude 20).
You are constructing a straw man. I have never stated that any Christian has no need of others. ALL Christians are members of the body of Christ, and we all need each other.
And people DO know what speaking in tongues is doing. It is magnifying God, it is speaking the wonderful works of God, it is giving thanks well, and GOD WANTS US TO DO IT.
You are not understanding what Paul is teaching, and you are completely ignoring 1 Cor 14:28.
1 Cor 14:
28) But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
Paul was not exhorting believers to seek the "gift" of prophesy over all the other "gifts". The context of 1 Cor 14 is Christian meetings. In Christian meetings, people should desire to prophesy (do you do that, Enow?) Read 1 Cor 14:1-5 together. 1 Cor 14:5 states:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
It is because of the Lord Jesus Christ pouring out the gift of the Holy Spirit that anyone can operate the manifestations.
When tongues is spoken in public, it must always be interpreted. A person can speak in tongues without interpreting as much as he likes in his private prayer life.
Some people believe that they receive the ability to speak in tongues from a separate outpouring of the Holy Spirit, but it is not true. Any Christian has the ability to speak in tongues any time they want to, whether in public (a meeting) or in private. In a meeting, when spoken out loud, tongues must be interpreted.
You are. You insist that speaking in tongues must always be interpreted, and that if it's not interpreted, it is not of God, and people are not to do it. IOW, you are forbidding people to speak in tongues, something the Bible says you are not to do.
Your belief is wrong. When a person speaks in tongues, he is not speaking to men, but to God (1 Cor 14:2).
The Bible explicitly states that when a Christian speaks in tongues he is edifying himself (1 Cor 14:4).
When tongues is spoken out loud, generally speaking NOBODY understands unless it is interpreted (1 Cor 14:2).
When a person speaks in tongues in public, THAT PERSON is to be the one that interprets.
1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
That is not true, Enow. The Bible explicitly states that when a person speaks in tongues, he is edifying himself (1 Cor 14:4), he is speaking the wonderful works of God and magnifying God (Acts 2:11; 10:46), he is giving thanks well (1 Cor 14:17).
Speaking in tongues is never gained by apostasy.
This belief of yours that you have stated so many times directly contradicts 1 Cor 14:2. When a person speaks in tongues, he is speaking to God.
When done in public, tongues is to be interpreted so the church can be edified.
I am sorry that you are confused by my statements and the scriptures which back them up.
A person could decide to accept what the Bible says. It specifically states what tongues is good for, the things that it does.
Please explain what verses I have taken out of context.
You misunderstand what Paul is saying. In meetings, prophesy is better than tongues unless tongues is interpreted (1 Cor 14:5). If a person does not want to interpret, he should speak in tongues silently to himself and to God (1 Cor 14:28).
Verse 2 says nothing about the person speaking in tongues being edified. 1 Cor 14:4 specifically states that when a person speaks in tongues, he is edifying himself.
Neither speaking in tongues nor prophesy are gifts. They are manifestations of the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Again you misunderstand what Paul was saying. In meetings, when a person speaks in tongues he is to interpret, so the church can be edified.
Enow, you are the one who ignores what 1 Cor 14:2 is saying. You continually insist that tongues is God speaking to people. It's not. When a person speaks in tongues, he is speaking to God. Read the verse.
That's right. That's why when speaking in tongues is done in public, it must always be interpreted. But Paul specifically states in 1 Cor 14:28 that if a person does not want to interpret, he should speak in tongues to himself, and to God. Also, we are always to be praying in the spirit, which is speaking in tongues (1 Cor 14:15; Eph 6:18; Jude 20).
You are constructing a straw man. I have never stated that any Christian has no need of others. ALL Christians are members of the body of Christ, and we all need each other.
And people DO know what speaking in tongues is doing. It is magnifying God, it is speaking the wonderful works of God, it is giving thanks well, and GOD WANTS US TO DO IT.
You are not understanding what Paul is teaching, and you are completely ignoring 1 Cor 14:28.
1 Cor 14:
28) But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
Paul was not exhorting believers to seek the "gift" of prophesy over all the other "gifts". The context of 1 Cor 14 is Christian meetings. In Christian meetings, people should desire to prophesy (do you do that, Enow?) Read 1 Cor 14:1-5 together. 1 Cor 14:5 states:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
It is because of the Lord Jesus Christ pouring out the gift of the Holy Spirit that anyone can operate the manifestations.
When tongues is spoken in public, it must always be interpreted. A person can speak in tongues without interpreting as much as he likes in his private prayer life.
Z
The point Paul is making is that to leave tongues without interpretation or not prophesying is not love and in the interest of all. He says Here is a more excellent way and described love.
All Paul taught by his own life was love by putting others before himself.
Not eating meat if it bothered someone, working for a living so he wasn't a burden etc.
All Paul taught by his own life was love by putting others before himself.
Not eating meat if it bothered someone, working for a living so he wasn't a burden etc.