To clarify to the readers per shrume; as you see that shrume agrees with me that there is no separate receiving of the Holy Spirit apart from salvation
That's right. People receive the gift of the Holy Spirit one time, and that is when they hear the gospel and believe it (Eph 1:13).
yet I call to his mind and everybody that reads this that some tongue speakers has gained tongues without interpretation to be used privately that way.
Some people believe that they receive the ability to speak in tongues from a separate outpouring of the Holy Spirit, but it is not true. Any Christian has the ability to speak in tongues any time they want to, whether in public (a meeting) or in private. In a meeting, when spoken out loud, tongues must be interpreted.
Now some will say I am throwing the baby out with the bathwater by that guilt by association
You are. You insist that speaking in tongues must always be interpreted, and that if it's not interpreted, it is not of God, and people are not to do it. IOW, you are forbidding people to speak in tongues, something the Bible says you are not to do.
but I believe God's gift of tongues is for ONLY speaking unto the people;
Your belief is wrong. When a person speaks in tongues, he is not speaking to men, but to God (1 Cor 14:2).
not for route of some prayer language for the Holy Spirit and not for some means of self edification
The Bible explicitly states that when a Christian speaks in tongues he is edifying himself (1 Cor 14:4).
when it does not comes with interpretation because Paul himself did not understood it
When tongues is spoken out loud, generally speaking NOBODY understands unless it is interpreted (1 Cor 14:2).
and had prayed for another to interpret that tongue so that he, himself, can be edified.
When a person speaks in tongues in public, THAT PERSON is to be the one that interprets.
1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except
he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
That means tongues are not fruitful until interpreted for the tongue speaker to be truly edified by that tongue.
That is not true, Enow. The Bible explicitly states that when a person speaks in tongues, he is edifying himself (1 Cor 14:4), he is speaking the wonderful works of God and magnifying God (Acts 2:11; 10:46), he is giving thanks well (1 Cor 14:17).
That is why I draw the line, not only by saying it is not of Him when that kind of tongue is gained by apostasy
Speaking in tongues is never gained by apostasy.
but the real God's gift of tongues is for speaking unto the people
This belief of yours that you have stated so many times directly contradicts 1 Cor 14:2. When a person speaks in tongues, he is speaking to God.
to be understood by the people as the tongue speaker should pray for that interpretation so that he may understand what was said for that tongue to edify him by and be really fruitful to himself.
When done in public, tongues is to be interpreted so the church can be edified.
See what shrume has written? Now how is that not confusion which God is not the author of?
I am sorry that you are confused by my statements and the scriptures which back them up.
How can any tongue speaker can claim that tongues can come without interpretation when they do not know what that tongue is actually doing for them to "benefit" from that tongue?
A person could decide to accept what the Bible says. It specifically states what tongues is good for, the things that it does.
That is what they get for pulling verses out of context of that chapter
Please explain what verses I have taken out of context.
when Paul was comparing tongues against prophesy to show why prophesy is better because tongues is not a stand alone gift to be used privately.
You misunderstand what Paul is saying. In meetings, prophesy is better than tongues unless tongues is interpreted (1 Cor 14:5). If a person does not want to interpret, he should speak in tongues silently to himself and to God (1 Cor 14:28).
It's like they use verse 2 as proof text that the tongue speaker is self edified
Verse 2 says nothing about the person speaking in tongues being edified. 1 Cor 14:4 specifically states that when a person speaks in tongues, he is edifying himself.
but ignore how Paul was comparing it against prophesy to show why prophesy is the better gift
Neither speaking in tongues nor prophesy are gifts. They are manifestations of the gift of the Holy Spirit.
and you read onward, that same tongue in verse 2 has to be interpreted for the tongue speaker or else it is unfruitful being how the tongue speaker does not understand it; and Paul said that.
Again you misunderstand what Paul was saying. In meetings, when a person speaks in tongues he is to interpret, so the church can be edified.
But they ignore those verses in favor of pulling verse 2 out of context of chapter 14.
Enow, you are the one who ignores what 1 Cor 14:2 is saying. You continually insist that tongues is God speaking to people. It's not. When a person speaks in tongues, he is speaking to God. Read the verse.
If you read 1 Corinthians 12th chapter, the manifestations of the Spirit was to profit the body withal; not individually: vs 7.
That's right. That's why when speaking in tongues is done in public, it must always be interpreted. But Paul specifically states in 1 Cor 14:28 that if a person does not want to interpret, he should speak in tongues to himself, and to God. Also, we are always to be praying in the spirit, which is speaking in tongues (1 Cor 14:15; Eph 6:18; Jude 20).
Paul confirmed that by using the metaphor of the eye as a member of the body that cannot say to other members of the body that he has no need of others, and that is exactly what shrume is saying by listing all those "benefits" that they can have their own private worship service and have no need of others, albeit, they do not know what that tongue is doing at that moment. That is the epitome of confusion which God is not the author of.
You are constructing a straw man. I have never stated that any Christian has no need of others. ALL Christians are members of the body of Christ, and we all need each other.
And people DO know what speaking in tongues is doing. It is magnifying God, it is speaking the wonderful works of God, it is giving thanks well, and GOD WANTS US TO DO IT.
1 Corinthians 12:[SUP]7 [/SUP]But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal......[SUP]19 [/SUP]And if they were all one member, where were the body?[SUP] 20 [/SUP]But now are they many members, yet but one body.[SUP] 21 [/SUP]And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
So tongue speakers will take verses out of context of 1 Corinthians 14th chapter to try to infer that tongues can be used without interpretation which is not the message Paul was giving in context of that chapter and also going against the precedent set in 1 Corinthians 12:7,19-21 on why tongues would never be for individual use.
You are not understanding what Paul is teaching, and you are completely ignoring 1 Cor 14:28.
1 Cor 14:
28) But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and
let him speak to himself, and to God.
So do not take your eyes off of Christ to seek the gift of tongues just because of all the supposed claims of the benefits of tongues without interpretation when Paul was exhorting believers to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gifts.
Paul was not exhorting believers to seek the "gift" of prophesy over all the other "gifts". The context of 1 Cor 14 is Christian meetings. In Christian meetings, people should desire to prophesy (do you do that, Enow?) Read 1 Cor 14:1-5 together. 1 Cor 14:5 states:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for
greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
You really have to wonder why the spotlight is on tongues without interpretation, when that spotlight should be on the Lord Jesus Christ as tongues would come with interpretation to serve towards that end.
It is because of the Lord Jesus Christ pouring out the gift of the Holy Spirit that anyone can operate the manifestations.
When tongues is spoken in public, it must always be interpreted. A person can speak in tongues without interpreting as much as he likes in his private prayer life.