Alcohol

[godisdaman]

Do you guys think that alcohol is wrong? I mean in the Bible it talks about wine, but it also mentions not to get drunk with it. Is social drinking wrong? The reason I ask is because it seem so many times I am at a party and people ask me to drink. I choose not too because I am unsure of this issue.

 

[BigFace]

It's all about your witness man. Think about what would happen if an elder of the church saw you drinking socially? All the confusion and gossip that would come of it.
The bible also says we are not to be conformed to this world, and if the non believers are drinking socially but not getting drunk, and so are the christians..then everyone's doing it.
I see no problem with an adult over the age of 21 enjoying a glass of wine or one bottle/can of beer in the privacy of their own home. As long as they don't get drunk and pose a threat to the wellness of their family, it's ok.

 

[lightbliss]

I agree with BigFace.

If you're under 21 there isn't a need to worry about whether it is biblically/morally right or wrong, because for you it is wrong and illegal.

Simple.

 

[portert100]

In New Zealand we're allowed to drink at 18...so I'm speaking from experience in that everybody has their own 'standards' to how they approach the drinking issue. I was in your situation, where all of my friends were asking me to drink. Eventually I convinced myself it ok to have a few...Alcohol is actually a depressant, so I experienced some real lows correspoding to the highs that alcohol offered. It took me while to realise that what I was doing was wrong for me. Usually when your concience feels something is not right, it usually means it is not right. This subsequently helped me develope my own standard to the drinking issue. I personally have decided not to get drunk anymore, but a couple are ok. I actually prefer not drinking at all. If you don't want to be in that pressured environment, you don't HAVE to go to the parties, you know. Consider carefully your approach to the standard you have towards the drinking issue...what is right for you? I agree where it says in the bible not to get drunk too. Hope this helps...-tama x

 

[BigFace]

In New Zealand we're allowed to drink at 18...so I'm speaking from experience in that everybody has their own 'standards' to how they approach the drinking issue. I was in your situation, where all of my friends were asking me to drink. Eventually I convinced myself it ok to have a few...Alcohol is actually a depressant, so I experienced some real lows correspoding to the highs that alcohol offered. It took me while to realise that what I was doing was wrong for me. Usually when your concience feels something is not right, it usually means it is not right. This subsequently helped me develope my own standard to the drinking issue. I personally have decided not to get drunk anymore, but a couple are ok. I actually prefer not drinking at all. If you don't want to be in that pressured environment, you don't HAVE to go to the parties, you know. Consider carefully your approach to the standard you have towards the drinking issue...what is right for you? I agree where it says in the bible not to get drunk too. Hope this helps...-tama x

Ok, this is called relativity.
Think about how accepting alcohol in front of non believers could hurt your witness. They'll think that there's nothing wrong with the way they live.

 

[portert100]

Ok, this is called relativity.
Think about how accepting alcohol in front of non believers could hurt your witness. They'll think that there's nothing wrong with the way they live.

Thanks so much for the thought-provoking reply

Yes, indeed this is relativity. I hope that many of my comments, especially as advice, have been relative to me, so that I'm not being hypocritical.Having a past understanding normally helps haha. I'm also hoping that my story was relative to the person wanting our opinion ,as we did share similar situations.

Is alcohol wrong in the first place? Who said it was bad? In my opinion, it is not bad. Therefore accepting alcohol in front of non-believers would not hurt my witness.

Alcohol can be very frowned upon especially because of the abuse of it. But we are supposed to be in the world and not of it, aren't we? Exactly! When we accepted wonderful Christ into our lives, we became of a new nature, a new Spirit. The motives and nature of drinking alcohol in non-believers, are not the same motives and natures for believers. Jesus drank socially...heck, he turned the water into wine, and last time I checked, he was pretty good at his witnessing

 

[BigFace]

Thanks so much for the thought-provoking reply

Yes, indeed this is relativity. I hope that many of my comments, especially as advice, have been relative to me, so that I'm not being hypocritical.Having a past understanding normally helps haha. I'm also hoping that my story was relative to the person wanting our opinion ,as we did share similar situations.

Is alcohol wrong in the first place? Who said it was bad? In my opinion, it is not bad. Therefore accepting alcohol in front of non-believers would not hurt my witness.

Alcohol can be very frowned upon especially because of the abuse of it. But we are supposed to be in the world and not of it, aren't we? Exactly! When we accepted wonderful Christ into our lives, we became of a new nature, a new Spirit. The motives and nature of drinking alcohol in non-believers, are not the same motives and natures for believers. Jesus drank socially...heck, he turned the water into wine, and last time I checked, he was pretty good at his witnessing

Ok, so that totally wasn't the type of relativity I was talking about.
Say, someone's a murderer, and they don't feel bad when they kill people..does that mean it's ok for them? I mean sure the bible speaks against setting out stumbling blocks, but the murderer doesn't feel anything because he's killing people with a completely different intent than worldly murderers. So that shouldn't hurt this "christian murderer's" witness.
And about Jesus turning water into wine, in biblical times wedding celebrations often lasted for a week or more and the whole community took place. Given these facts we can see that with this many people, there's a possibility that there wasn't enough for anyone to get drunk. And, in those times wine wasn't seen as "the beverage for the sinners" as some hardcore christians see it today, it wasn't seen as "lets drink this to get messed up," it was seen as the drink you had with dinner more often than not.
Now, about the new motives thing, the world doesn't care about your motives behind anything. Humans were born evil, thus with primarily evil motives. And this is why when the world sees a Christian drinking they don't think "oh he's a christian so he's not trying to get drunk." they primarily think "the way he lives is no different..so why change?"

 

[portert100]

Ok, so that totally wasn't the type of relativity I was talking about.
Say, someone's a murderer, and they don't feel bad when they kill people..does that mean it's ok for them? I mean sure the bible speaks against setting out stumbling blocks, but the murderer doesn't feel anything because he's killing people with a completely different intent than worldly murderers. So that shouldn't hurt this "christian murderer's" witness.
And about Jesus turning water into wine, in biblical times wedding celebrations often lasted for a week or more and the whole community took place. Given these facts we can see that with this many people, there's a possibility that there wasn't enough for anyone to get drunk. And, in those times wine wasn't seen as "the beverage for the sinners" as some hardcore christians see it today, it wasn't seen as "lets drink this to get messed up," it was seen as the drink you had with dinner more often than not.
Now, about the new motives thing, the world doesn't care about your motives behind anything. Humans were born evil, thus with primarily evil motives. And this is why when the world sees a Christian drinking they don't think "oh he's a christian so he's not trying to get drunk." they primarily think "the way he lives is no different..so why change?"

Thanks. I'm presently not understanding how you can compare drinking with murdering...Drinking is not a sin, whereas the bible clearly says that murder is. And you cannot get a "Christian murderer"- it defies the very nature of God. Murder is not of God so the intent is all the same.

If the world doesn't care about the motives for drinking, then why would they care for the motives for not drinking? Are you saying that people are saved, because Christians choose not to drink? The world is saved through the relationships (like friends) they have with Christian friends, here, the nature of Jesus is presented. They are presented with the nature of how Christians can approach the drinking issue. Why do they care? Cause they're friends! Coz they have a rerlationship with that person. If a random Christian person came to party and chose not to drink, I wouldn't care about his motivations! But if he was a good friend of mine....then yes, I would care.

We have the potential to change the drinking culture.We can show our friend that we don't dring to get smashed off our face. In biblical times, people did get drunk. In biblical times, there was also Christians who approached alcohol in a beautiful form. With these two cultures of drinking going on at the same time, your theory suggests that all the 'good drinkers' should stop drinking because its encouraging the 'bad drinkers' to not change their ways. Of course not! Me and my Chrstian friends socially drink, as an example of how it should be done..not avoiding it!

 

[BigFace]

Thanks. I'm presently not understanding how you can compare drinking with murdering...Drinking is not a sin, whereas the bible clearly says that murder is. And you cannot get a "Christian murderer"- it defies the very nature of God. Murder is not of God so the intent is all the same.

If the world doesn't care about the motives for drinking, then why would they care for the motives for not drinking? Are you saying that people are saved, because Christians choose not to drink? The world is saved through the relationships (like friends) they have with Christian friends, here, the nature of Jesus is presented. They are presented with the nature of how Christians can approach the drinking issue. Why do they care? Cause they're friends! Coz they have a rerlationship with that person. If a random Christian person came to party and chose not to drink, I wouldn't care about his motivations! But if he was a good friend of mine....then yes, I would care.

We have the potential to change the drinking culture.We can show our friend that we don't dring to get smashed off our face. In biblical times, people did get drunk. In biblical times, there was also Christians who approached alcohol in a beautiful form. With these two cultures of drinking going on at the same time, your theory suggests that all the 'good drinkers' should stop drinking because its encouraging the 'bad drinkers' to not change their ways. Of course not! Me and my Chrstian friends socially drink, as an example of how it should be done..not avoiding it!

Ok, I was explaining the relativity by using the murderer bit. I meant nothing literal by it.

So, you want to change the drinking culture that has been set in it's ways for years and years by drinking with them? I'm sorry..I fail to see where drinking with non believers who's opinion of alcohol is completely centered around getting "messed up" is going to help.
The bible doesn't say drinking is a sin, but it does say not to be a stumbling block. If you know one of your friends is allergic to shrimp, and you go out to eat with him, you wouldn't order anything with shrimp in it out of respect right? Since so many Christians see drinking as worldly, wouldn't it be a stumbling block for them to see a brother in Christ drinking? Would it not confuse young Christians?
Seeing as how this has the potential to turn into an argument, causing division, I see it as a stumbling block to the starter of this thread. I won't post on it again.

 

[godisdaman]

I was not intending this discussion to be a stumbling block. I was just wanting to hear different opinions. I mean I can see both points, but I think maybe in the biblical days the water was most of the time contaminated, so they had to drink something else. Let me repeat this...This is a Discussion board if people cannot discuss without making someone mad then do not be here.

Your calling me out for posting this, when I was wanting different opinions. I clearly did not make this topic to make you mad or a stumbling block.

Actually where I live alcohol is legal if your over 18, so it makes the topic tricky.

 

[portert100]

I believe I am more effective to bring about change to the drinking culture when I'm setting a good example, rather than avoiding the situation altogether. There is a very beautiful side to drinking and I see the 'not drinking theology' as an attempt to erradicate it altogether. Remember it is not the act of drinkng, but rather the nature of it that decides whether it is right or wrong. Non-believers don't need to stop drinking, they need to change their natures about it. As a Christian I demonstrate a healthy nature towards drinking.

Me drinking may well be a stumbling block for other Christians, but this is because of their lack of understanding towards the issue. Of course anyone with shallow eyes can see the apparent stereotype of drinking, but it takes a person of undestanding to realise that this is just one side of the drinking, and I refuse to let this "bad stereo-type" remove completely that side of drinking that is beautiful in nature. Me being seen by other Christians as a 'sinner' because of me socially drinking, is a risk I'm willing to take if it means that I have helped a non-believer out of their evil-natued drinking, and into a healthy one.

I'm not saying that all Christians should now drink as an example (this is a personal decision that I made with God...my "standard"). I'm just letting you know that there are Christians out there that DO know how to drink properly and they are a fine example, and have a great influence on their friends.
I'm not expecting a world revival out of the drinking issue , but I do have faith enough to make a difference in my town, in my friends...even if it be one person, it would be worth it.

Bigface, thanks for your views upon this topic. The debate has actually been very fun. You are obviously a good man of integrity and I respect you for that. Thankyou.-Tama

 

[BigFace]

I was not intending this discussion to be a stumbling block. I was just wanting to hear different opinions. I mean I can see both points, but I think maybe in the biblical days the water was most of the time contaminated, so they had to drink something else. Let me repeat this...This is a Discussion board if people cannot discuss without making someone mad then do not be here.

Your calling me out for posting this, when I was wanting different opinions. I clearly did not make this topic to make you mad or a stumbling block.

Actually where I live alcohol is legal if your over 18, so it makes the topic tricky.

I apologize if it sounds like I'm calling you out, because I'm not. Division between Christians is a stumbling block no matter who or where you are. I know you didn't mean for this thread to be a stumbling block, and it didn't make anyone mad. It had the potential to the way it was headed, but it didn't. It was actually a very good question, and you saw both sides of the Christian ideals behind drinking. I hope it helped.

 

[SamaireSaya]

As the OP said the bible says not to get drunk but it doesn't say you can not drink. I dont agree with underage drinking as it puts pressure on others who are underage to drink as well especially when teenagers younger and younger are drinking excessively. I am only 17 so I dont drink but i have the ocassional half glass or bottle and have only drunk excessively (which was only 3 bottles) on a special occasion. I think its okay to drink a glass or bottle every now and then (even if you arent of age) so that your body can get use to it as most teenagers will drink heavily at first.
Personally I dont see the point of drinking till you pass out or vomit as it does so much damage and is pointless.
As to not drinking so you dont hurt your witness; Would it not be better for your witness to see that you can drink sensibly?

 

[AliceOfLegend]

Okay, first to the people say if you not 21 then its not a problem because its illegal. That is not always true, because depending on where they live the drinking laws could be different. Also it is actually legal where i live for parents to allow there children to drink, it can only be in the house, under there supervision they can't allow minors that are not there children to engage in drinking.

Anyway with that out of the way, I honestly think its a matter of personal opinion. and i don't think that Christians that drink should have to refrain from drinking around Christians that don't like it. Just because one person doesn't agree with it doesn't mean you have to drop everything and accommodate their wishes. The people who started AA meetings actually used to keep alcohol in there house for guests to drink when they were over. As long as your not getting hammered I don't see the problem.

Also, for the record. Not everyone who is not a Christian drinks to get drunk. its kind of funny how some people seem to think that.

 

[sportygirl]

For me as a Christian social drinking is ok, if your of legal age. But I have also seen the effects of people in general getting drunk, and how it can effect the people around them. In fact a great example was the other day, my friend (24) barely drinks, and her group of friends ranges from 20-28 do drink alot...and apparently have been getting drunk alot, including keeping alchol in the 20 year olds (who is my ex) house. I think people do stupid stuff (not always but alot of the time)and if this is the case they are more likely to fall into sin at least from waht I've seen. I don't know about bibically exactly how drinking should be handled but for me in my walk in faith, drinking socially on occasion is ok, but getting drunk is not.

 

[Maddog]

No, nothing wrong with having a drink, at home or in public.

To that end I'm drinking wine right now.

 

[lil_christian]

Wait 'till your 21, and then if you want, drink. But don't get drunk.

 

[Tinker]

The bible doesn't say that you cannot drink. God don't want you or anyone to get drunk. Jesus drunk wine, but didn't get drunk off of it.

 

[BeauBLESSED]

I agree with BigFace.

If you're under 21 there isn't a need to worry about whether it is biblically/morally right or wrong, because for you it is wrong and illegal.

Simple.

You're so clever.

 

[AliceOfLegend]

You're so clever.

But wrong, depending on what state they are in