Can God create the eternal?
- Thread starter Zmouth
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
it both appears not to be, and also to be. the fundamental nature of both are not completely understood - you're talking wave-particle duality, vacuum energy and higgs fields. plus, the history of the scientific endeavor to comprehend and describe reality has been that every time the physical universe has been understood & described in what seemed to be fundamental terms, it has later become apparent that something even more fundamental underlies it. as a species, as humanity, we're limited by our capacity to observe: it is like a veil, as it were.
So, what does that make you? If something is created, but then lives on forever, does this not then make something eternal by nature of existence? Is not history eternal, for once made it lives on forever (at the very least, in the mind of God knowing all things)? God wasn't created, and therefore just exists, making Him eternal. Yet, for God He does something masterful. He takes that which perishes away and gives it eternal life. He breathes in us life.
Vacuum energy? You mean the energy that comes from nothing. OMG
Visible white light is not a wave-particle duality, but that is getting off topic.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Rom 1:20
Visible white light is not a wave-particle duality, but that is getting off topic.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Rom 1:20
In answer to the question within the title of this thread, yes He can and has. The nature of eternity is not dependent upon self-existence, I think this more points to God's divinity. God being God. If God promises eternal life to His children then God can create "the eternal."
The question that may perplex us is this, does God ponder His existence or consider the existential question? He says, "I AM", and that He is. Ever present, ever being. To think that anything exists, including God is mind boggling. Why does God exist as opposed to God not existing?
The question that may perplex us is this, does God ponder His existence or consider the existential question? He says, "I AM", and that He is. Ever present, ever being. To think that anything exists, including God is mind boggling. Why does God exist as opposed to God not existing?
there's two ways to look at this - first, physicists don't describe vacuum energy as energy that 'comes from' nothing - but as energy that exists even when nothing else - no mass, no wave energy - exists. it's already there; the fabric of 'space' itself, void of anything man is able to identify, contains potential energy.
secondly, you can think of all energy in the corporeal as having come from nothing. cosmologically the 'picture' that seems to fit observation best is that the universe began in a dimensionless point, i.e. nothing. scripturally the same fundamental thing is said: in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. the heavens and the earth are all 'energy' in the sense of potential and also in the sense that energy & mass are convertible instances of the same 'thing' - and what did God create it from? not dust, as He made us of - dust, which is part of the heavens and the earth. there were no heavens and earth, and then in the beginning, He created them. as though from nothing.
actually yes, it exactly is - you can set up an experiment to make photons act like a wave, or to act like a particle - or even for the same photon to do both in sequence. Einstein's nobel prize wasn't for relativity; it was for demonstrating that light acts like it has mass - but other experiments and theory have demonstrated that it doesn't, or even cannot - as far as we understand what mass is. the nature of light - even visible white light - is one of the most profound mysteries in creation, and it is that same creation that demonstrates His character, and that particular demonstration is part of the whole of what creation attests to, for which man has no excuse.
it's not really off-topic, IMO - one facet of what you're asking is whether the heavens and the earth can be eternal, this one or the next, and people who have exactly this in mind argue over whether a 'new heavens and a new earth' mean this one made new or this one completely annihilated in every respect, wiped even from memory, and an entirely new, eternal one created. one piece of that puzzle is whether this universe, in terms of the most fundamental of fundamental descriptions of its substance, is destroyed or not - or can it be? so what exactly is light, and what exactly is the fabric of the corporeal reality, is very much at the heart of the thread. no?
Last edited:
I appreciate your opinion, yet where do you see that Jesus spoke of eternal salvation or eternal redemption? [FONT="][Romans 3:7][/FONT][FONT="][See John 3:11][/FONT]
However, he did speak of eternal damnation. He even said that shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: [FONT="]Mark 3:29[/FONT]
[FONT="]But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him. [/FONT][FONT="]Luke 12:5[/FONT]
Where do you think the place of eternal damnation is? [See Rev 3:16]
However, he did speak of eternal damnation. He even said that shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: [FONT="]Mark 3:29[/FONT]
[FONT="]But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him. [/FONT][FONT="]Luke 12:5[/FONT]
Where do you think the place of eternal damnation is? [See Rev 3:16]
Oh, my bad. So that must mean that you can bear witness to its meaning because.....
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: John 6:44
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. John 6:65
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 14:6
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
John 15:26-27
Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning. John 8:25
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: John 6:44
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. John 6:65
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 14:6
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
John 15:26-27
Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning. John 8:25
Last edited:
The word nature denotes a beginning. God has no nature. He is not a man as us..
Supernatural is the beginning of eternal things not seen. This creation which was corrupted because of the fall as that seen is the temporal.. As new creatures we are given the faith of Christ which comes from hearing God not seen in order to see ahead to the new heavens and earth . The new generation, or genesis, the generation of Christ. The generation of Adam is limited to what the eye sees.
2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Not the most popular but from my experience years ago someone gave their opinion on the other generation (beginning) not seen.
The word genesis was coined from the word generation. It could I believe read Generation 2:1-4, rather than Genesis 2:1-4
Note....(purple in parenthesis) by comments
Genesis 2:1-4 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. These are the generations (geneses plural) of the heavens and of the earth when they (plural)were created, in the day (singular)that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
It works the best for me when looking at the end and the new beginning below.
Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
They did not apply the prescription of Christ’s faith that comes from hearing needed to looking ahead to the eternal ( 2 Corintians4:18) They were looking at the things seen the temporal (their own flesh)rather than walking by faith the unseen eternal word.
They required a sign seen before they would believe making the cross without effect the stumbling block. Same block as today..
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 1Co 1:22