Paul exposes false application of the law

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eternally-gratefull

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That’s OK EG,

Not sure there is any reason to continue with someone who suggests Abraham had the Levitical Priesthood, that preaches the Pharisees were working to keep God’s Commandments and that preaches God’s Laws are not created for Christian’s.

We just see God’s Word differently, and as such are destined to disagree. Thanks for the discussion, it was enlightening to be sure.

As I expected. Your like most and can not comprehend what people are saying, (I never said abraham had any —priesthood)

as for the rest,. That is what the Bible says, if you can not see it, thats not my fault.
 

Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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You leave out One very important thing.. The Holy Spirit Baptism... GOD stated He would......wait for it.. write His Law in our heart and put them on our mind... how does He do this?
Very good question, and whose laws are written? Are they the doctrines and traditions of man Mainstream preachers preach, or are they God’s Commandments Jesus walked in?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Very good question, and whose laws are written? Are they the doctrines and traditions of man Mainstream preachers preach, or are they God’s Commandments Jesus walked in?

More importantly, what’s empowers us to live them.

The letter. Or the spirit?
 

loveme1

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Oct 30, 2011
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More importantly, what’s empowers us to live them.

The letter. Or the spirit?
EG.. how does GOD write His Law in our heart and put them on our mind? Because that is what He states the New Covenant would be?...
 
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Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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As I expected. Your like most and can not comprehend what people are saying, (I never said abraham had any —priesthood)

as for the rest,. That is what the Bible says, if you can not see it, thats not my fault.
See what EG?

You never responded to all the prophetic scripture regarding the Pharisees I posted, you never responded to all the Words of Christ who teaches just the opposite of your preaching regarding the Mainstream preachers of His time.

I asked for just one scripture from Jesus to support your preaching and you either refused or were unable to provide one.

At least you understand Abraham wasn’t under the Levitical Priesthood.

Thanks EG
 
Dec 9, 2011
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You leave out One very important thing.. The Holy Spirit Baptism... GOD stated He would......wait for it.. write His Law in our heart and put them on our mind... how does He do this?
Grace through faith.
 

Grandpa

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=Grandpa;3348071]Matthew 23:1-2
1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:


The pharisees were trying to obey Gods Law. They sat in Moses seat and had his authority.




As is your custom you omit scriptures that you cant use to support man made doctrines. The scribes and Pharisees read from scriptures. This we are to observe and do. But don't do as they do, because they say and do not do.

Why do you ignore all that Jesus said about these mainstream preachers? Even this scripture you twist says the Pharisees didn't obey God. They said to obey, but they didn't.

What benefit is there for anyone on the forum to continue in a conversation where you start our with preaching a deception.
No, the Pharisees didn't obey God. Why is that? Romans 9... this is super simple
Romans 9:31-32
[FONT=&quot]31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

This is the problem with judaizers and legalists. Their circular reasoning always leads them back to their work at the law no matter how many times they are shown from scripture that they are wrong.[/FONT]


The Jewish people and the Pharisees are in the bible precisely to show that they failed. To show humanity that they couldn't please God by their own work at His Law.


You have zero Biblical evidence to support this preaching.
Well there is Romans 9:31-32, 2 Corinthians 3, Galatians 2-5, Ephesians 2, 1 Timothy 1



They refused the sacrifice of Jesus and were still preaching the Levitical Priesthood "Works of the Law" for remission of sins, instead of recognizing Jesus as the Messiah and accepting His Blood in Faith. They stumbled at Jesus and were still relying on the "works of the Levitical Priesthood for remission of sins.
There's no such thing as Levitical Priesthood works of the law. You made that up.

Only the priests did levitical works of the law. Nowhere in the NT does works of the law refer to levitical works of the law.



But with Faith we can please Him, Yes. And we are to have the faith of Abraham, Yes?

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

How you guys can preach that faith and obedience are opposite is fascinating to me. How you can read the Bible and conclude the Pharisees were trying to Obey God is fascinating.
The Lord wouldn't have said that they sit in Moses seat if they weren't trying to obey God.

The Lord would have said that the pharisees DO NOT sit in Moses seat if they weren't trying to obey God.






Again, you are wrong. I believe the Bible and ALL it's Words are worthy to build doctrine. The Pharisees created their own righteousness, their own traditions and their own commandments. That is what Jesus clearly said. Jesus, Zechariah and Abraham did not do these things. They were considered righteous because they trusted God's instruction, they didn't do as the Mainstream preachers of Christ's time and create their own instruction.

This is why I stay away fro Mainstream Christianity. They claim God and their God, yet the reject His instruction and create their own. You can't deny this truth honestly.
You don't even know what works of the law are... How are you going to know what obedience is?




The Pharisees reject God's Laws and created their own.
Which is what all legalists and judaizers do when they attempt to make Gods Spiritual Law into a carnal one.

How can I listen to you when you preach the falsehood that the Pharisees were trying to obey God's Laws. That is a blatant lie GP, and one that can easily be exposed by literally dozens of scriptures. Where in the OT did anyone say the preachers were trying to obey God. Where does Jesus say they were trying to obey God? It isn't any where but your and mainstream doctrine. This preaching doesn't exist in the Bible. And I challenge you to find it.
Whenever a legalist tries to work at the law they think they are being obedient to God.

They aren't of course.



He followed the law of the Pharisee, not the Laws of God. Jesus made it very clear that the Pharisees were not following God's Commandments. Show me where Jesus said even once that the Pharisees were obeying God.

I'll wait for the scriptures.
Show where Jesus said that anyone was obeying God. Show where He says Good Job you are following the 10 commandments just like God wants.

Romans 3:19-22
[FONT=&quot]19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:[/FONT]
 

Grandpa

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Jun 24, 2011
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You leave out One very important thing.. The Holy Spirit Baptism... GOD stated He would......wait for it.. write His Law in our heart and put them on our mind... how does He do this?
God is going to put His Spiritual Law into our heart and mind.

How does this Spiritual Law differentiate from the carnal law that people try to work at?

2 Corinthians 3:6 [FONT=&quot]Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

[/FONT]
When God writes His Spiritual Law on our hearts and minds does it bring death or life?

2 Corinthians 3:7-9
[FONT=&quot]7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

What is this ministration of the Spirit and ministration of righteousness? Is it something different than the ministration of death and condemnation?[/FONT]
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
EG.. how does GOD write His Law in our heart and put them on our mind? Because that is what He states the New Covenant would be?...
yes he do showing us LOVE. Which empowers us to be obedient,
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
See what EG?

You never responded to all the prophetic scripture regarding the Pharisees I posted, you never responded to all the Words of Christ who teaches just the opposite of your preaching regarding the Mainstream preachers of His time.

I asked for just one scripture from Jesus to support your preaching and you either refused or were unable to provide one.

At least you understand Abraham wasn’t under the Levitical Priesthood.

Thanks EG

Lol you were given them yesterday by grandpa. I guess you missed that.

Again, good luck living up to the law. And thinking that will get you to heaven.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
No, the Pharisees didn't obey God. Why is that? Romans 9... this is super simple
Romans 9:31-32
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

This is the problem with judaizers and legalists. Their circular reasoning always leads them back to their work at the law no matter how many times they are shown from scripture that they are wrong.






Well there is Romans 9:31-32, 2 Corinthians 3, Galatians 2-5, Ephesians 2, 1 Timothy 1

There's no such thing as Levitical Priesthood works of the law. You made that up.

Only the priests did levitical works of the law. Nowhere in the NT does works of the law refer to levitical works of the law.



The Lord wouldn't have said that they sit in Moses seat if they weren't trying to obey God.

The Lord would have said that the pharisees DO NOT sit in Moses seat if they weren't trying to obey God.






You don't even know what works of the law are... How are you going to know what obedience is?


[/COLOR]

Which is what all legalists and judaizers do when they attempt to make Gods Spiritual Law into a carnal one.

Whenever a legalist tries to work at the law they think they are being obedient to God.

They aren't of course.



Show where Jesus said that anyone was obeying God. Show where He says Good Job you are following the 10 commandments just like God wants.

Romans 3:19-22
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Almost like it was on Q! Amen bro. Yet he will continue to ignore it.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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God is going to put His Spiritual Law into our heart and mind.

How does this Spiritual Law differentiate from the carnal law that people try to work at?

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

When God writes His Spiritual Law on our hearts and minds does it bring death or life?

2 Corinthians 3:7-9
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

What is this ministration of the Spirit and ministration of righteousness? Is it something different than the ministration of death and condemnation?
What is His Spiritual Law?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
A lot more than the mosaic law can teach us.

The mosaic law is just a small sample of Gods laws. One would think you would understand that.
 

loveme1

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Oct 30, 2011
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A lot more than the mosaic law can teach us.

The mosaic law is just a small sample of Gods laws. One would think you would understand that.
We are talking about The Law of GOD.. you should understand the difference..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
We are talking about The Law of GOD.. you should understand the difference..

yeah we are. The law of God is MUCH more in-depth than the law he Gave moses. That law had a purpose. The law of GOD as Grandpa said is spiritual. it is not the letter.

Again, I would think you understood this
 
Nov 6, 2017
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yeah we are. The law of God is MUCH more in-depth than the law he Gave moses. That law had a purpose. The law of GOD as Grandpa said is spiritual. it is not the letter.

Again, I would think you understood this
Loving God, loving others and loving yourself is more in depth? How so?
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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yeah we are. The law of God is MUCH more in-depth than the law he Gave moses. That law had a purpose. The law of GOD as Grandpa said is spiritual. it is not the letter.

Again, I would think you understood this

So the Law of GOD is Spiritual .. but all are condemned by it.. showing us what? We needed Saving? Needed to be born again of the Holy Spirit..

The Lord teaches us to Love GOD and each other even our enemies... so yes the depths of Love are deep.. deeper than the you shall not covet etc.. because if you love your neighbour truly you would not desire what is His... and if you Love your parents you would honour them by default.. and if you Love GOD you do not do things that He detests.. Which His Law shows us and the Sabbath well the Lord of Sabbath taught us that it is lawful to do good.. so He definitely intends for His flock to Remember to Keep it Holy.. Which is to say separate.

Grace and Truth comes through the Messiah..


So the Law of GOD is written inwards when we BELIEVE.. under Grace at Liberty no condemnation because of what Christ did... got Victory for us to Save us... GOD be thanked and praised.. Our King who will return for us.. be Faithful you saints.. for He is always Faithful.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Loving God, loving others and loving yourself is more in depth? How so?
The law of moses (letter) says do not commit adultry

can you explain by those words alone what that means, what it entails. What would constitute breaking it?

And then, How do we obey it, By readin git sand putting it in our minds it is a bad things we should not do it? And how easy is that to do? Especially when you just have the words. Do not commit adultry.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
So the Law of GOD is Spiritual .. but all are condemned by it.. showing us what? We needed Saving? Needed to be born again of the Holy Spirit..

The Lord teaches us to Love GOD and each other even our enemies... so yes the depths of Love are deep.. deeper than the you shall not covet etc.. because if you love your neighbour truly you would not desire what is His... and if you Love your parents you would honour them by default.. and if you Love GOD you do not do things that He detests.. Which His Law shows us and the Sabbath well the Lord of Sabbath taught us that it is lawful to do good.. so He definitely intends for His flock to Remember to Keep it Holy.. Which is to say separate.

Grace and Truth comes through the Messiah..


So the Law of GOD is written inwards when we BELIEVE.. under Grace at Liberty no condemnation because of what Christ did... got Victory for us to Save us... GOD be thanked and praised.. Our King who will return for us.. be Faithful you saints.. for He is always Faithful.

Your not condemned by the spiritual law. Where do you get this? Your condemned by the law written on stones, also called the ministry of death.


The law was not given to tell you how to be righteous. It was written to shut every mouth, because all have sinn4ed and fall short. Why do people keep insisting it was?