Grace alone or grace plus works?
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i believe the devil put the pope there to deceive the nations into thinking its the golden standard for christianity. it defines christianity according to many nonbelievers today.
aint it strange how they are now bringing this ecumenical movement? its not a coincidence. the devil is using them guys to bring about a one world religion. thats why its all connected and coming together.
aint it strange how they are now bringing this ecumenical movement? its not a coincidence. the devil is using them guys to bring about a one world religion. thats why its all connected and coming together.
Yeah, definitions are always problem...
How to define grace, how to define works, are works grace too?
The OP should give his definitions before the vote.
In my post, by "work" I meant some (inner or outer) activity on our side.
Apostle Paul meant the works of the Law. Luther meant the religious work of the RCC. Apostle James meant practical love (to help people in need)...
If we mix it all together, we will get confusion.
How to define grace, how to define works, are works grace too?
The OP should give his definitions before the vote.
In my post, by "work" I meant some (inner or outer) activity on our side.
Apostle Paul meant the works of the Law. Luther meant the religious work of the RCC. Apostle James meant practical love (to help people in need)...
If we mix it all together, we will get confusion.
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I agree, you can not seperate the two. However. Salvation is BEFORE works. Because works are empowered by faiht and the HS, and the receiving of Gods true love (we love because God FIRST loved us.
Real work, and real love can not occur until AFTER we have truely experienced Gods love in salvation and receiving the gift of the HS.
Real work, and real love can not occur until AFTER we have truely experienced Gods love in salvation and receiving the gift of the HS.
D
I think the part that gets missed isn't the "in," the "through," or the "to," it's the "by." BY Christ!
BY Christ comes the grace.
BY Christ comes the faith.
BY Christ comes salvation.
BY Christ we glorify God.
Picture it as a check register. We're the debit column. Christ is the credit column. If we have grace, that's because he gave it to us. If we have faith, it is because he gave that to us. If we are saved, the Father gave us to Christ, and Christ will keep us. If we glorify God, he gives us that too. We, without him, are a list of waste. We waste on sin -- lying, cheating, haughty, bickering, back-biting, gossiping... If there is a bad way of spending, we've spent it that way. We're bankrupt. We're forever bankrupt, because we cannot/will not do what is right or good.
And yet, then there is Christ -- the credit column. He took, is taking, will take our waste and paid the ultimate penalty for it. And then he deposited, is depositing, will deposit HIS grace, HIS faith, HIS ability, HIS glory onto/into us. The bank account is full. It spills over so far, it fills all the bank accounts to all his people, but that doesn't come from anything we did/do/will do. The donator/income-earner/income depositor's name is Jesus, the Christ. God himself!
We are but beggars being taught how to become princes and princesses. We've been adopted by the King, taught by the brother who adopted us, and empowered by the Holy Spirit. Where we keep getting cocky on this one is we keep thinking we can contribute ourselves. We can add some little part of us into the credit column to fill us up.
Nope! Really, really nope! Never could. Never will. Not in this lifetime. We are being fixed to go into the next lifetime where... maybe. Probably. Seems to me quite likely. We will spend eternity worshiping the creditor. No more credit needed, because credit and debits is of this world, not that New Heavens and New Earth world.
As it stands now, we want to do good because of him, but even that comes from him. We're broken. He holds us together for the glory of the Father, (who also happens to be the same glory he is and the same glory the Spirit is), while we're being repaired, and made more and more like him to be turned into his completely new vessel for eternity. Then we get to do what we were always created to do -- glorify God.
All this is BY Christ, not BY anything else or anyone else. Certainly not by us! Every good thing, be it grace, faith, good works, mercy, love, etc., is BY GOD! By God in us, sure, but BY GOD!
BY Christ comes the grace.
BY Christ comes the faith.
BY Christ comes salvation.
BY Christ we glorify God.
Picture it as a check register. We're the debit column. Christ is the credit column. If we have grace, that's because he gave it to us. If we have faith, it is because he gave that to us. If we are saved, the Father gave us to Christ, and Christ will keep us. If we glorify God, he gives us that too. We, without him, are a list of waste. We waste on sin -- lying, cheating, haughty, bickering, back-biting, gossiping... If there is a bad way of spending, we've spent it that way. We're bankrupt. We're forever bankrupt, because we cannot/will not do what is right or good.
And yet, then there is Christ -- the credit column. He took, is taking, will take our waste and paid the ultimate penalty for it. And then he deposited, is depositing, will deposit HIS grace, HIS faith, HIS ability, HIS glory onto/into us. The bank account is full. It spills over so far, it fills all the bank accounts to all his people, but that doesn't come from anything we did/do/will do. The donator/income-earner/income depositor's name is Jesus, the Christ. God himself!
We are but beggars being taught how to become princes and princesses. We've been adopted by the King, taught by the brother who adopted us, and empowered by the Holy Spirit. Where we keep getting cocky on this one is we keep thinking we can contribute ourselves. We can add some little part of us into the credit column to fill us up.
Nope! Really, really nope! Never could. Never will. Not in this lifetime. We are being fixed to go into the next lifetime where... maybe. Probably. Seems to me quite likely. We will spend eternity worshiping the creditor. No more credit needed, because credit and debits is of this world, not that New Heavens and New Earth world.
As it stands now, we want to do good because of him, but even that comes from him. We're broken. He holds us together for the glory of the Father, (who also happens to be the same glory he is and the same glory the Spirit is), while we're being repaired, and made more and more like him to be turned into his completely new vessel for eternity. Then we get to do what we were always created to do -- glorify God.
All this is BY Christ, not BY anything else or anyone else. Certainly not by us! Every good thing, be it grace, faith, good works, mercy, love, etc., is BY GOD! By God in us, sure, but BY GOD!
D
God is still sovereign. And God is the one who puts leadership in, no matter what the leaders think or the people under them. Do not credit Satan for what God has done.
And yet, also remember, God put that Pharaoh into that leadership position for that purpose too.
Romans 8:28 has a negative side unstated, but implied.
And we also know for those who will never love God all things work together for their bad, because they were never called to his purposes. And yet, even in that, those things work together for the good, for those who are called to his purposes.
If I did not grow up in the RCC, the thought to beg God to let me know him personally might not have entered my head. (Except, of course, God is still sovereign, so apparently had me do that. lol) So even that pope at that time served God's purposes.
I do not know where people get this NWO stuff from, but if you'd go back to the Bible to learn about the Lord instead of wasting your time trying to prove that theory, you'd grow a lot faster. That ecumenical movement you're referencing ain't that new. It predates your birth by about 20 years and nothing has come from it.
And yet, also remember, God put that Pharaoh into that leadership position for that purpose too.
Romans 8:28 has a negative side unstated, but implied.
And we also know for those who will never love God all things work together for their bad, because they were never called to his purposes. And yet, even in that, those things work together for the good, for those who are called to his purposes.
If I did not grow up in the RCC, the thought to beg God to let me know him personally might not have entered my head. (Except, of course, God is still sovereign, so apparently had me do that. lol) So even that pope at that time served God's purposes.
I do not know where people get this NWO stuff from, but if you'd go back to the Bible to learn about the Lord instead of wasting your time trying to prove that theory, you'd grow a lot faster. That ecumenical movement you're referencing ain't that new. It predates your birth by about 20 years and nothing has come from it.
