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Greetings Ahwatukee,
I would say that this great multitude is the Church. The generally accepted interpretation of "came out of" is that they actually experienced the Great Tribulation. But if we take this great multitude which no man can number as all the saints of God (the Church) then we know that the Great Tribulation is not for the Church, and the Tribulation saints would not be a numberless multitude. Why? Because those who are saved during the Great Tribulation are those who did not reject Christ and the Gospel, but believed knowing they would become martyrs (Rev 20). But the whole Church is not martyred.
So "came out of" should really be interpreted as "escaped" the Great Tribulation (which is also how it can be interpreted, since it can be either come or go or went).
Strong's Concordance
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: erchomai
Phonetic Spelling: (er'-khom-ahee)
Short Definition: I come, go
Definition: I come, go.
arrival (1), arrived (1), brought (1), came (225), come (222), comes (64), coming (87), entered (2), expected (3), fall (2), falls (1), give (1), go (1), going (2), grown (1), lighting (1), next (1), turned (1), went (18).
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2064: ἔρχομαι
ἔρχομαι, imperative ἔρχου, ἔρχεσθε (for the Attic ἴθι, ἰτε from εἰμί); imperfect ἠρχόμην (forἐηιν and ἦα more common in Attic); futureἐλεύσομαι;
a. of persons; α. universally, to come from one place into another, and used both of persons arriving ,,, and of those returning...
I would say that this great multitude is the Church. The generally accepted interpretation of "came out of" is that they actually experienced the Great Tribulation. But if we take this great multitude which no man can number as all the saints of God (the Church) then we know that the Great Tribulation is not for the Church, and the Tribulation saints would not be a numberless multitude. Why? Because those who are saved during the Great Tribulation are those who did not reject Christ and the Gospel, but believed knowing they would become martyrs (Rev 20). But the whole Church is not martyred.
So "came out of" should really be interpreted as "escaped" the Great Tribulation (which is also how it can be interpreted, since it can be either come or go or went).
Strong's Concordance
erchomai: to come, go
Original Word: ἔρχομαιPart of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: erchomai
Phonetic Spelling: (er'-khom-ahee)
Short Definition: I come, go
Definition: I come, go.
arrival (1), arrived (1), brought (1), came (225), come (222), comes (64), coming (87), entered (2), expected (3), fall (2), falls (1), give (1), go (1), going (2), grown (1), lighting (1), next (1), turned (1), went (18).
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2064: ἔρχομαι
ἔρχομαι, imperative ἔρχου, ἔρχεσθε (for the Attic ἴθι, ἰτε from εἰμί); imperfect ἠρχόμην (forἐηιν and ἦα more common in Attic); futureἐλεύσομαι;
a. of persons; α. universally, to come from one place into another, and used both of persons arriving ,,, and of those returning...
Hello Ahwatuuke,
I am agree on the coming God's wrath right before second coming, but I also believe there will be persecution for believer
Revelation 13
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
I am agree on the coming God's wrath right before second coming, but I also believe there will be persecution for believer
Revelation 13
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Matt 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
There re will be great tribulation and for the sake's of the elect, .....
That mean the elect/ believer still on earth, at the time of great tribulation
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
There re will be great tribulation and for the sake's of the elect, .....
That mean the elect/ believer still on earth, at the time of great tribulation
The only mistake is to make the Great Tribulation and Wrath one and the same....
The second mistake is to take what lost men that are hiding in caves are saying over the ANNOUNCED wrath of God in heaven at the 7th trump
The third mistake is to deny what Jesus said to the 1st New Testament church concerning this coming and NO FLESH being left alive if he did not come when he comes and then to deny Paul's verbiage namely WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN UNTO THE COMING of Christ
The fourth mistake is to believe that ALL of these saints suffered over the last 2000 years and all of a sudden the Lord's churches at the end of the age are above the purifying process of tribulation and are ABOVE suffering for JESUS
The fifth mistake is to deny the consistent usage of the word SAINT as applied unto saved, immersed church members all throughout the New Testament and then DISASSOCIATE the word from Churches in Revelation
The sixth mistake is to deny the Greek definition of the word KEEP as found applied to the FAITHUL church in Philadelphia and the fact that it means to protect, guard from loss, injury or HARM....NOT REMOVE and in so doing by default teach that the other 6 churches are to suffer
The seventh mistake is to deny the fact that in the parables concerning the wedding that the Gentiles ARE ALLUDED TO AS THE GUESTS at the wedding.
The eighth mistake is to say that the Lord's churches are not found after chapter four in Revelation (see the fifth mistake above)
The ninth mistake is to deny that JESUS told his 1st church that the ingathering would take place AFTER the GREAT TRIBULATION in MATTHEW 24, MARK 13, and LUKE 21
The tenth mistake is to deny that in the parable of the wheat and tares that GOD begins to move against the TARES first before he removes the wheat.
The eleventh mistake is to deny the words of JESUS and that through MUCH TRIBULATION we must enter the KINGDOM of GOD
The twelfth mistake is to deny the fact that the coming and gathering of the saints is SEEN BY ALL and is not some INVISIBLE, magical disappearance where the world WONDERS where we went. See ACTS and the discourse with the angle and disciples, see REVELATION and every kindred, tongue, nation and EYE, see the discourse between JESUS and the religious LOST.......EVERY EYE will see him come with power and in the CLOUDS as he went into heaven.....and as lightning shines from the east to the west and the evident dead carcass by the gathered buzzards....VISIBLE
The thirteenth mistake is to deny PAUL's use of a Grandsville SHARP in 2nd Thessalonians 2 and the two things that MUST take place before the PAROUSIA of JESUS, THAT IS TO SAY OUR GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM
I can go on for hours.........there is no such thing as the imminent return of JESUS found in scripture........it is a farce, false, misleading and leads to a complacent religion that lives in fantasy land.
The second mistake is to take what lost men that are hiding in caves are saying over the ANNOUNCED wrath of God in heaven at the 7th trump
The third mistake is to deny what Jesus said to the 1st New Testament church concerning this coming and NO FLESH being left alive if he did not come when he comes and then to deny Paul's verbiage namely WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN UNTO THE COMING of Christ
The fourth mistake is to believe that ALL of these saints suffered over the last 2000 years and all of a sudden the Lord's churches at the end of the age are above the purifying process of tribulation and are ABOVE suffering for JESUS
The fifth mistake is to deny the consistent usage of the word SAINT as applied unto saved, immersed church members all throughout the New Testament and then DISASSOCIATE the word from Churches in Revelation
The sixth mistake is to deny the Greek definition of the word KEEP as found applied to the FAITHUL church in Philadelphia and the fact that it means to protect, guard from loss, injury or HARM....NOT REMOVE and in so doing by default teach that the other 6 churches are to suffer
The seventh mistake is to deny the fact that in the parables concerning the wedding that the Gentiles ARE ALLUDED TO AS THE GUESTS at the wedding.
The eighth mistake is to say that the Lord's churches are not found after chapter four in Revelation (see the fifth mistake above)
The ninth mistake is to deny that JESUS told his 1st church that the ingathering would take place AFTER the GREAT TRIBULATION in MATTHEW 24, MARK 13, and LUKE 21
The tenth mistake is to deny that in the parable of the wheat and tares that GOD begins to move against the TARES first before he removes the wheat.
The eleventh mistake is to deny the words of JESUS and that through MUCH TRIBULATION we must enter the KINGDOM of GOD
The twelfth mistake is to deny the fact that the coming and gathering of the saints is SEEN BY ALL and is not some INVISIBLE, magical disappearance where the world WONDERS where we went. See ACTS and the discourse with the angle and disciples, see REVELATION and every kindred, tongue, nation and EYE, see the discourse between JESUS and the religious LOST.......EVERY EYE will see him come with power and in the CLOUDS as he went into heaven.....and as lightning shines from the east to the west and the evident dead carcass by the gathered buzzards....VISIBLE
The thirteenth mistake is to deny PAUL's use of a Grandsville SHARP in 2nd Thessalonians 2 and the two things that MUST take place before the PAROUSIA of JESUS, THAT IS TO SAY OUR GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM
I can go on for hours.........there is no such thing as the imminent return of JESUS found in scripture........it is a farce, false, misleading and leads to a complacent religion that lives in fantasy land.
D
Considering your entire "theology" is based on your version of End Times, it's all opinion with you. Both bad theology and bad eschatology. Eschatology doesn't save you, and I rather you stop trying to proselytize people to your false gospel.
Morningglorysnowflake, what's going on in this thread, (the arguing over End Times) is the very thing I warned you about. This is what some do and think this saves. Run from it, because they will keep trying to convert you and this will go on for pages, and more and more threads. There is God, and then there is both he is here and he will end everything with his judgement on all of us. At that time, which do you want to be serving -- a theory of how he'll do that or HIM?
Find a church that doesn't waste time on theorizing, but teaches love and serving God.
Morningglorysnowflake, what's going on in this thread, (the arguing over End Times) is the very thing I warned you about. This is what some do and think this saves. Run from it, because they will keep trying to convert you and this will go on for pages, and more and more threads. There is God, and then there is both he is here and he will end everything with his judgement on all of us. At that time, which do you want to be serving -- a theory of how he'll do that or HIM?
Find a church that doesn't waste time on theorizing, but teaches love and serving God.
I disagree.....it is an intricate part of the bible, all scripture is profitable and God gave it to be studied....note the following
There are 300 hundred prophecies about the First Coming of Jesus in the Old Testament, but there are 500 in the Old Testament about His Second Coming! And in the New Testament, one out of every 25 verses has to do with the Second Coming of Jesus. In other words, there are many, many, many more prophecies about the Second Coming of Jesus than His First Coming
There are 300 hundred prophecies about the First Coming of Jesus in the Old Testament, but there are 500 in the Old Testament about His Second Coming! And in the New Testament, one out of every 25 verses has to do with the Second Coming of Jesus. In other words, there are many, many, many more prophecies about the Second Coming of Jesus than His First Coming
It is important to understand that even though Yahshua/Jesus returns on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] and final Trumpet and we are called up to be with Him, none enter the Kingdom of YHWH until the 7 Bowls are complete. Here it is shown that Yahshua returns on the 7th Trumpet, showing there is no "pre-tribulation rapture" and we meet Him in the air (the 1st heaven) before the wrath of YHWH (the 7 bowls) are poured out;
Matt 24:21-22, "For then will be great tribulation, such as has not come to pass since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever will be. And unless those days were shortened, there would no flesh be saved; but for the elect's sake, those days will be shortened." (Isaiah 24:1-6)
Mat 24:29-31, “And immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give its light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Aḏam shall appear in the heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Aḏam coming on the clouds of the heaven with power and much esteem. And He shall send His messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.”
Revelation 11:15, “And the seventh messenger sounded his trumpet, and there came to be loud voices in the heaven, saying, “The reign of this world has become the reign of our Master, and of His Messiah, and He shall reign forever and ever!”
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, “Now, brothers, we do not wish you to be ignorant concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you be sad as others who have no expectation. For if we believe that יהושע died and rose again, so also Yah shall bring with Him those who sleep in יהושע. For this we say to you by the word of the Master, that we, the living who are left over at the coming of the Master shall in no way go before those who are asleep. Because the Master Himself shall come down from heaven with a shout, with the voice of a chief messenger, and with the trumpet of Yah, and the dead in Messiah shall rise first. Then we, the living who are left over, shall be caught away together with them in the clouds to meet the Master in the air – and so we shall always be with the Master. So, then, encourage one another with these words."
1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”
Yet we see none enter until after the Bowls are poured out;
Revelation 15:1-8, “And I saw another sign in the heaven, great and marvelous: seven messengers having the seven last plagues, for the wrath of יהוה...those overcoming the beast and his image and his mark...no one was able to enter the Dwelling Place until the seven plagues of the seven messengers were ended.”
There are 2 "it is done" statements...
Fulfilled already
John 19:30, “So when יהושע took the sour wine He said, “It is done!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.”
Fulfilled already- To be fulfilled in the future
1. Passover/First-fruits – Yahshua's Sacrifice(Passover), burial and resurrection (First Fruits)
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread – Removal of sin by Yahshua's perfect work as the Passover Sacrifice
3. Feast of Weeks – The blessing Holy Spirit of YHWH, coming into our lives stronger than ever
4. Feast of Trumpets – Yahshua's return and gathering of the Saints
5. Day of Atonement – Yahshua leads the army of YHWH to destroy evil rulers of this world and satan is chained for 1,000 years
6. Feast of Tabernacles – Yahshua dwells on earth for 1,000 years teaching truth and righteousness
7. The Last Great Day – satan is loosed and swiftly destroyed, the Kingdom of YHWH reigns forever
To be fulfilled in the future
Revelation 21:4-8, “And Yah shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying. And there shall be no more pain, for the former matters have passed away. And He who was sitting on the throne said, “See, I make all matters new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and trustworthy. And He said to me, “It is done! I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, the Beginning and the End. To the one who thirsts I shall give of the fountain of the water of life without payment. The one who overcomes shall inherit all this, and I shall be his Strength and he shall be My son. But as for the cowardly, and untrustworthy, and abominable, and murderers, and those who whore, and drug sorcerers, and idolaters, and all the false, their part is in the lake which burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.”
Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." Revelation 21:1-2, “And I saw a renewed heaven and a renewed earth, for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. And I, Yoḥanan, saw the set-apart city, renewed Yerushalayim, coming down out of the heaven from Yah, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”
Matt 24:21-22, "For then will be great tribulation, such as has not come to pass since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever will be. And unless those days were shortened, there would no flesh be saved; but for the elect's sake, those days will be shortened." (Isaiah 24:1-6)
Mat 24:29-31, “And immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give its light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Aḏam shall appear in the heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Aḏam coming on the clouds of the heaven with power and much esteem. And He shall send His messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.”
Revelation 11:15, “And the seventh messenger sounded his trumpet, and there came to be loud voices in the heaven, saying, “The reign of this world has become the reign of our Master, and of His Messiah, and He shall reign forever and ever!”
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, “Now, brothers, we do not wish you to be ignorant concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you be sad as others who have no expectation. For if we believe that יהושע died and rose again, so also Yah shall bring with Him those who sleep in יהושע. For this we say to you by the word of the Master, that we, the living who are left over at the coming of the Master shall in no way go before those who are asleep. Because the Master Himself shall come down from heaven with a shout, with the voice of a chief messenger, and with the trumpet of Yah, and the dead in Messiah shall rise first. Then we, the living who are left over, shall be caught away together with them in the clouds to meet the Master in the air – and so we shall always be with the Master. So, then, encourage one another with these words."
1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”
Yet we see none enter until after the Bowls are poured out;
Revelation 15:1-8, “And I saw another sign in the heaven, great and marvelous: seven messengers having the seven last plagues, for the wrath of יהוה...those overcoming the beast and his image and his mark...no one was able to enter the Dwelling Place until the seven plagues of the seven messengers were ended.”
There are 2 "it is done" statements...
Fulfilled already
John 19:30, “So when יהושע took the sour wine He said, “It is done!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.”
Fulfilled already- To be fulfilled in the future
1. Passover/First-fruits – Yahshua's Sacrifice(Passover), burial and resurrection (First Fruits)
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread – Removal of sin by Yahshua's perfect work as the Passover Sacrifice
3. Feast of Weeks – The blessing Holy Spirit of YHWH, coming into our lives stronger than ever
4. Feast of Trumpets – Yahshua's return and gathering of the Saints
5. Day of Atonement – Yahshua leads the army of YHWH to destroy evil rulers of this world and satan is chained for 1,000 years
6. Feast of Tabernacles – Yahshua dwells on earth for 1,000 years teaching truth and righteousness
7. The Last Great Day – satan is loosed and swiftly destroyed, the Kingdom of YHWH reigns forever
To be fulfilled in the future
Revelation 21:4-8, “And Yah shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying. And there shall be no more pain, for the former matters have passed away. And He who was sitting on the throne said, “See, I make all matters new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and trustworthy. And He said to me, “It is done! I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, the Beginning and the End. To the one who thirsts I shall give of the fountain of the water of life without payment. The one who overcomes shall inherit all this, and I shall be his Strength and he shall be My son. But as for the cowardly, and untrustworthy, and abominable, and murderers, and those who whore, and drug sorcerers, and idolaters, and all the false, their part is in the lake which burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.”
Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." Revelation 21:1-2, “And I saw a renewed heaven and a renewed earth, for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. And I, Yoḥanan, saw the set-apart city, renewed Yerushalayim, coming down out of the heaven from Yah, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”
Ezekiel 48:35, “All around: eighteen thousand cubits. And the name of the city from that day is: יהוה is there!”
Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahanan, saw the holy city, YHWH Shammah, coming down from YHWH out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of YHWH is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and YHWH Himself will be with them, and be their Father.”
Revelation 21:4-8 And YHWH will wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there will be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, nor will there be any more pain, for the former things have passed away. And He Who sat upon the throne, said: Behold, I make all things new. And He said to me: Write, for these words are true and faithful. And He said to me: It is done! I am Aleph and Tau, the Beginning and the End. I will give to him who thirsts of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes will inherit all things; and I will be his Father, and he will be My son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and worshipers of false gods, and all liars, will have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahanan, saw the holy city, YHWH Shammah, coming down from YHWH out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of YHWH is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and YHWH Himself will be with them, and be their Father.”
Revelation 21:4-8 And YHWH will wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there will be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, nor will there be any more pain, for the former things have passed away. And He Who sat upon the throne, said: Behold, I make all things new. And He said to me: Write, for these words are true and faithful. And He said to me: It is done! I am Aleph and Tau, the Beginning and the End. I will give to him who thirsts of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes will inherit all things; and I will be his Father, and he will be My son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and worshipers of false gods, and all liars, will have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
"The great tribulation" is a term Jesus used in His Olivet discourse to describe the pending (66-70 AD) siege (starvation, civil war, etc) and final destruction of Jerusalem whereby "not one stone would be found upon another." This tribulation came upon that most "wicked and perverse generation" as He called it. It was God's wrath upon THAT people in THAT generation. Only "those in Judea were to flee" when they saw the Roman solders come. God's people did in fact flee to Pella and not one Christian life was lost in the great tribulation.
Revelation describes in figurative language the horrors and utter destruction of Israel. The "Beast" was Rome and the "Harlot" was Jerusalem which was living in an adulterous affair with Rome. The Jewish priests of that day (who put Christ to death) swore allegiance to Caesar and denied Christ as their Messiah. Since they did not know the time of their visitation (even though Daniel gave them the time to expect it) per Lk 19, God's wrath was poured out upon them and 1.1 million Jews died during the great tribulation which was 93% of their population, the rest (98,000) were led away captive.
The resurrection was the freeing of the OT saints from Hades whereby they were allowed to go to heaven when the presence of Christ (parousia) returned to destroy Jerusalem "immediately after the 'tribulation of those days'". The believers who were "alive and remaining" at that time (70 AD) were "caught up" spiritually "in the air" with them into the Kingdom of God.
Since these events of 70 AD when a believer dies, he or she immediately goes to heaven without first going to Hades to wait for the "restoration of all things" because Christ restored our connection to God which was lost in the Garden. We are not told when or if life on earth will end or when or if there will be another "great tribulation" to happen to the whole planet. According to Heb 9, we are all appointed to die, then face judgment.
Revelation describes in figurative language the horrors and utter destruction of Israel. The "Beast" was Rome and the "Harlot" was Jerusalem which was living in an adulterous affair with Rome. The Jewish priests of that day (who put Christ to death) swore allegiance to Caesar and denied Christ as their Messiah. Since they did not know the time of their visitation (even though Daniel gave them the time to expect it) per Lk 19, God's wrath was poured out upon them and 1.1 million Jews died during the great tribulation which was 93% of their population, the rest (98,000) were led away captive.
The resurrection was the freeing of the OT saints from Hades whereby they were allowed to go to heaven when the presence of Christ (parousia) returned to destroy Jerusalem "immediately after the 'tribulation of those days'". The believers who were "alive and remaining" at that time (70 AD) were "caught up" spiritually "in the air" with them into the Kingdom of God.
Since these events of 70 AD when a believer dies, he or she immediately goes to heaven without first going to Hades to wait for the "restoration of all things" because Christ restored our connection to God which was lost in the Garden. We are not told when or if life on earth will end or when or if there will be another "great tribulation" to happen to the whole planet. According to Heb 9, we are all appointed to die, then face judgment.
H
I would say you have an extremely bad starting place.
There are many,many raptures ( catching away) to heaven in the bible.
Interesting that they are all referencing being caught up TO HEAVEN.
Now, why in the world would you do a essay type post,but leave out all the raptures?
....and to " prove" there is no such thing?????
There are many,many raptures ( catching away) to heaven in the bible.
Interesting that they are all referencing being caught up TO HEAVEN.
Now, why in the world would you do a essay type post,but leave out all the raptures?
....and to " prove" there is no such thing?????
YES
NO
There was NO resurrection at the destruction of Jerusalem (dest of Jeru).
This one event, the coming of Jesus with clouds of Roman armies to destroy Jerusalem, is the main point of confusion in the prophetic timeline.
Jesus destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD, but it was not a resurrection coming.
The resurrection coming, for salvation, has yet to come.
(There are only 2 resurrections 1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24.)
This is where pre-trib is confused also. The attributes of the 70 AD coming, are being confused with the resurrection coming.
The events of the 70 AD coming, are being seen as future instead of past. "Wars and rumors of wars", Matt 24, Mk 13, etc., is pre 70 AD.
But the resurrection coming, is yet to happen.
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Look, Jesus told his apostles that Jerusalem would be surrounded and destroyed, and that the times of the gentiles (ToG's) would begin Lk 21:20-24.
But Jesus didn't tell them How Long that the ToG's would last.
The apostles may have thought that Jerusalem would be restored, very soon after Jerusalem fell in 70 AD , it turns out, that the ToG's was 1900 years long.
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There is an end to the ToG's.
The times given, all have a beginning and an end.
The end of the ToG's is when Israel is restored to military control of Jerusalem.
Unless you are alive and part of the kingdom at His coming for salvation.
Not right there AB - salvation was at the destruction of Jerusalem, as was the resurrection.
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1 Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1 Thess 4:7 is the time of the resurrection, the final destruction of the temple, salvation and resurrection occurred at the "cloud" coming of Jesus in 70 AD.
Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1 Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1 Thess 4:7 is the time of the resurrection, the final destruction of the temple, salvation and resurrection occurred at the "cloud" coming of Jesus in 70 AD.
Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
First throw away all the various American promoted rapture stories that abound.
They are trash.
Daniel's seventy weeks has been fulfilled when Jesus came to his own and
underwent his death and resurrection and with the new covenant enacted when
Cornelius and his family [the gentiles] received the Holy Spirit as well as the Jews.
The last days are truly upon us and there is prophecy concerning the destruction
of Damascus and Syria. We are watching this unfold right now.
Always keep your eyes on Israel and Jerusalem. This is where the action will be.
As for us as Christians we are to endure and keep the faith. For we all will
still be here on Earth when this entire world will burn through nuclear war.
Only our faith will save us.
It is important that we still preach the gospel of hope and salvation to those
around us . Salvation will still be available to people right up to the last day,
before God shuts the door.
They are trash.
Daniel's seventy weeks has been fulfilled when Jesus came to his own and
underwent his death and resurrection and with the new covenant enacted when
Cornelius and his family [the gentiles] received the Holy Spirit as well as the Jews.
The last days are truly upon us and there is prophecy concerning the destruction
of Damascus and Syria. We are watching this unfold right now.
Always keep your eyes on Israel and Jerusalem. This is where the action will be.
As for us as Christians we are to endure and keep the faith. For we all will
still be here on Earth when this entire world will burn through nuclear war.
Only our faith will save us.
It is important that we still preach the gospel of hope and salvation to those
around us . Salvation will still be available to people right up to the last day,
before God shuts the door.