Question, what was the garden of the Lord

[Miri]

Genesis 13:10 NKJV
[10] And Lot lifted his eyes and saw all the plain of Jordan, that it was
well watered everywhere (before the LORD destroyed Sodom and
Gomorrah) like the garden of the LORD, like the land of Egypt as
you go toward Zoar.



Isaiah 51:3 NKJV
[3] For the LORD will comfort Zion, He will comfort all her waste places;
He will make her wilderness like Eden, And her desert like the
garden of the LORD; Joy and gladness will be found in it, Thanksgiving
and the voice of melody.





Do you think the garden of the Lord above was a reference to Eden. If so then it
seems that information about Eden, would have been passed down across
the generations. Or is it about some other place.


I never noticed before but in looking this up i also found other references to
Eden. It’s interesting to note, as many think Eden was make believe with just
the one reference at the start of Genesis, or that possibly it might be explained
through evolution. But on the other hand an actual garden in existance
with knowledge of it passed down across the ages, gives even more credence
to it.
Might be useful to know for when discussing with non Christians.




Isaiah 51:3 NKJV
[3] For the LORD will comfort Zion, He will comfort all her waste places; He will
make her wilderness like Eden, And her desert like the garden of the LORD; Joy
and gladness will be found in it, Thanksgiving and the voice of melody.


Ezekiel 31:9 NKJV
[9] I made it beautiful with a multitude of branches, So that all the trees of Eden
envied it, That were in the garden of God.'


Joel 2:3 NKJV
[3] A fire devours before them, And behind them a flame burns; The land is
like the Garden of Eden before them, And behind them a desolate wilderness;
Surely nothing shall escape them.

 

[tourist]

That's a very good question. Maybe it refers to the Garden of Eden but maybe not as it stays the garden of the Lord. I never really thought about that. Very interesting topic.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Isaiah 51:3 NKJV For the LORD will comfort Zion, He will comfort all her waste places;
He will make her wilderness like Eden, And her desert like the garden of the LORD; Joy and gladness will be found in it, Thanksgiving and the voice of melody.

This Hebrew parellelism between Eden and the garden of the LORD should be enough to confirm that they are one and the same. It would appear that Eden became Paradise after the Fall, and was removed to Heaven, and is presently in Heaven. You will see allusions to this is Revelation, as well as 2Cor 12:4.

 

[phil36]

Good post miri,

Yeah I believe it to be a reference to the Garden, especially the view that what lot saw was well watered (Gen 2:10). Isaiah is a direct reference to Eden itself.

I think there would have definitely been an oral tradition handed down through to the writing of Genesis.

One more to think about, we are also headed to a new 'Eden' the new earth and Jerusalem (Rev 21) where there is water of life flowing (Rev 22:1ff, cf. Ezek 47:1-12). The theme of God dwelling with his people in His place under His rule is quite dominant throughout scripture.

 

[Marcelo]

I've never heard about that! Could it be the Garden of Eden?

 

[MarcR]

Genesis 13:10 NKJV
[10] And Lot lifted his eyes and saw all the plain of Jordan, that it was
well watered everywhere (before the LORD destroyed Sodom and
Gomorrah) like the garden of the LORD, like the land of Egypt as
you go toward Zoar.



Isaiah 51:3 NKJV
[3] For the LORD will comfort Zion, He will comfort all her waste places;
He will make her wilderness like Eden, And her desert like the
garden of the LORD; Joy and gladness will be found in it, Thanksgiving
and the voice of melody.





Do you think the garden of the Lord above was a reference to Eden. If so then it
seems that information about Eden, would have been passed down across
the generations. Or is it about some other place.


I never noticed before but in looking this up i also found other references to
Eden. It’s interesting to note, as many think Eden was make believe with just
the one reference at the start of Genesis, or that possibly it might be explained
through evolution. But on the other hand an actual garden in existance
with knowledge of it passed down across the ages, gives even more credence
to it.
Might be useful to know for when discussing with non Christians.




Isaiah 51:3 NKJV
[3] For the LORD will comfort Zion, He will comfort all her waste places; He will
make her wilderness like Eden, And her desert like the garden of the LORD; Joy
and gladness will be found in it, Thanksgiving and the voice of melody.


Ezekiel 31:9 NKJV
[9] I made it beautiful with a multitude of branches, So that all the trees of Eden
envied it, That were in the garden of God.'


Joel 2:3 NKJV
[3] A fire devours before them, And behind them a flame burns; The land is
like the Garden of Eden before them, And behind them a desolate wilderness;
Surely nothing shall escape them.

In Ge 13:10 and 51:3 the reference to 'The garden of the Lord' is definitely a reference to Eden.

The sense is both 'well watered' and 'lush and verdant'. The comparison with Egypt in Ge 13:10 is similar.

In Is chapter 51 the reference seems at first to be the return from the Babylonian exile. However, Isa 51:18
18 There is none to guide her among all the sons whom she hath brought forth; neither is there any that taketh her by the hand of all the sons that she hath brought up.
KJV
puts that in question.

Those returning to Judea after the exile had Zerubbabel, Ezra, Nehemiah, and Daniel to lead them.

I believe that Isa 51 either primarily or also refers to Israel 1947-55.

UnlikeZerubbabel, Ezra, Nehemiah, and Daniel; David Ben Gurion, and Golda Meier rose to leadership from among the people.

 

[Miri]

In Ge 13:10 and 51:3 the reference to 'The garden of the Lord' is definitely a reference to Eden.

The sense is both 'well watered' and 'lush and verdant'. The comparison with Egypt in Ge 13:10 is similar.

In Is chapter 51 the reference seems at first to be the return from the Babylonian exile. However, Isa 51:18
18 There is none to guide her among all the sons whom she hath brought forth; neither is there any that taketh her by the hand of all the sons that she hath brought up.
KJV
puts that in question.

Those returning to Judea after the exile had Zerubbabel, Ezra, Nehemiah, and Daniel to lead them.

I believe that Isa 51 either primarily or also refers to Israel 1947-55.

UnlikeZerubbabel, Ezra, Nehemiah, and Daniel; David Ben Gurion, and Golda Meier rose to leadership from among the people.

Oh - interesting about Israel, yes I suppose it has been like returning to the
promised land again again! The story of the prodigal son comes to mind as well there.

Re Eden, I do think it must be Eden as well folks I just wondered if there was any
other explanation anyone could think of.

If Eden it definately shuts the door on the evolution question doesnt it, as it’s
unlikely people would have recalled it from billions of years ago! Not that I believe
in evolution anyway but it’s an interesting point to bring up.

Its strange, I’m reading through the bible again, I’ve done it many times before but it’s
like I’m really reading it this time and really obvious things are popping off the page I’ve not
noticed before.

 

[Nehemiah6]

If Eden it definately shuts the door on the evolution question doesnt it, as it’s unlikely people would have recalled it from billions of years ago!

I don't know if you could use the mention of Eden by various prophets as evidence against evolution. The door to evolution was shut within the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:11):

For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

 

[Miri]

I don't know if you could use the mention of Eden by various prophets as evidence against evolution. The door to evolution was shut within the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:11):

For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

I know we can, but many others don’t see it that way.

 

[trofimus]

If Eden it definately shuts the door on the evolution question doesnt it, as it’s
unlikely people would have recalled it from billions of years ago!

I am not sure what you mean. Humanity is not billions of years old. Our planet is.

Homo sapiens sapiens (our species) is cca 100-200 thousand years old.

 

[iamsoandso]

Genesis 13:10 NKJV
[10] And Lot lifted his eyes and saw all the plain of Jordan, that it was
well watered everywhere (before the LORD destroyed Sodom and
Gomorrah) like the garden of the LORD, like the land of Egypt as
you go toward Zoar.



Isaiah 51:3 NKJV
[3] For the LORD will comfort Zion, He will comfort all her waste places;
He will make her wilderness like Eden, And her desert like the
garden of the LORD; Joy and gladness will be found in it, Thanksgiving
and the voice of melody.





Do you think the garden of the Lord above was a reference to Eden. If so then it
seems that information about Eden, would have been passed down across
the generations. Or is it about some other place.


I never noticed before but in looking this up i also found other references to
Eden. It’s interesting to note, as many think Eden was make believe with just
the one reference at the start of Genesis, or that possibly it might be explained
through evolution. But on the other hand an actual garden in existance
with knowledge of it passed down across the ages, gives even more credence
to it.
Might be useful to know for when discussing with non Christians.




Isaiah 51:3 NKJV
[3] For the LORD will comfort Zion, He will comfort all her waste places; He will
make her wilderness like Eden, And her desert like the garden of the LORD; Joy
and gladness will be found in it, Thanksgiving and the voice of melody.


Ezekiel 31:9 NKJV
[9] I made it beautiful with a multitude of branches, So that all the trees of Eden
envied it, That were in the garden of God.'


Joel 2:3 NKJV
[3] A fire devours before them, And behind them a flame burns; The land is
like the Garden of Eden before them, And behind them a desolate wilderness;
Surely nothing shall escape them.

lol, Many have looked at these same set of text/wording for various reasons and have come away from it with different ideas of it's meaning so maybe another's skill of the Hebrew and Greek word meanings might be superior to mine but never the less this is what I saw/see after pondering the same.

In the text you give the Hebrew word "gan" Strong's Hebrew: 1588. גָּן (gan) -- 42 Occurrences is used which is something hedged about,a garden ect. Strong's Hebrew: 1588. גָּן (gan) -- an enclosure, garden

In Eden (from genesis) there are two trees the tree of life and the tree of good and evil(Genesis 2:9). I point this out because the same tree of life is in the middle/midst of the paradise of God(Revelation 2:7,Revelation 22:2 and Revelation 21:2-3). The reason I used the word "paradise" Strong's Hebrew: 6508. pardes -- a preserve, park (Hebrew) or Strong's Greek: 3857. παράδεισος (paradeisos) -- a park, a garden, a paradise (Greek) is because of 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 in that Paul first referred to this same place in verse 2 as "third heaven" and then in verse 4 as "paradise" 2 Corinthians 12 Interlinear Bible .

So in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 both Paradise and third heaven are being used to denote an exact place and uses the two terms to denote the "same place"(important I think to notice).

There are some very interesting things to note about this,that is in Luke 23;43 this is the same place Jesus states they would be that day. another(and most often missed) is that in looking back to Genesis 2:15 God takes the man he made(from the earth) and puts him in Eden(Genesis 2:15) which is a "different place" other than the earth (i.e.third heaven/paradise) and the woman(Eve) was not created/made while Adam/man was in the earth but "after" he was placed in Eden,paradise,the third heaven ect. (Genesis 2:21-24) so Eve,the woman was made/created where on earth or in the third heaven?

Afterwards as we know from the scriptures Adam and his wife were sent out of this place and back into the earth where he was made but if you notice from the scriptures I gave from Revelation(there are others I left out for the sake of space and time) in the end the same third heaven,paradise,gan ect. is to be delivered back to man from heaven. So the same place where Adam was intended to be/live is restored in the end.

There are many other scriptures to bare in mind about this subject(much debate on some of them,lol) but I wish not to distract from your O.P. topic and tried to only answer only what this "Garden" is.

 

[Depleted]

Genesis 13:10 NKJV
[10] And Lot lifted his eyes and saw all the plain of Jordan, that it was
well watered everywhere (before the LORD destroyed Sodom and
Gomorrah) like the garden of the LORD, like the land of Egypt as
you go toward Zoar.



Isaiah 51:3 NKJV
[3] For the LORD will comfort Zion, He will comfort all her waste places;
He will make her wilderness like Eden, And her desert like the
garden of the LORD; Joy and gladness will be found in it, Thanksgiving
and the voice of melody.





Do you think the garden of the Lord above was a reference to Eden. If so then it
seems that information about Eden, would have been passed down across
the generations. Or is it about some other place.


I never noticed before but in looking this up i also found other references to
Eden. It’s interesting to note, as many think Eden was make believe with just
the one reference at the start of Genesis, or that possibly it might be explained
through evolution. But on the other hand an actual garden in existance
with knowledge of it passed down across the ages, gives even more credence
to it.
Might be useful to know for when discussing with non Christians.




Isaiah 51:3 NKJV
[3] For the LORD will comfort Zion, He will comfort all her waste places; He will
make her wilderness like Eden, And her desert like the garden of the LORD; Joy
and gladness will be found in it, Thanksgiving and the voice of melody.


Ezekiel 31:9 NKJV
[9] I made it beautiful with a multitude of branches, So that all the trees of Eden
envied it, That were in the garden of God.'


Joel 2:3 NKJV
[3] A fire devours before them, And behind them a flame burns; The land is
like the Garden of Eden before them, And behind them a desolate wilderness;
Surely nothing shall escape them.

If it was passed down through the generations, it only came through one family -- Noah's.

I do think of it as Eden. Eden is what I want my backyard to look like. There were no weeds. I mean, literally, weeds came at the punishment for the Fall. (thorns and poisonous plants.) A bird could eat kernels of grains without worrying about a cat sneaking up on it. Pigeons didn't flap loudly to scare away the house wrens. Both birds could eat together. Squirrels didn't need to dig holes in the soil, because other squirrels weren't going to eat their hoard. Matter of fact, no hoard, because no winter to need to hoard. Lettuce and chard grew naturally, so rabbits never had a need to steal it out of someone's garden. Deer had all they needed, so no need to "deadhead" someone's bushes. It was a place of abundance with no fear of other critters, or even of Man. (God put the fear of Man on animals as they disembarked off the ark.)

But I see that same garden somewhere else in the Bible. Psalm 23. That's it! The Garden is God our shepherd, forever guiding us to the good spots and letting us know when it's time to rest. He's got the staff to protect us. He's keeping the cats away as we eat. And he is our food and water.

Doesn't that make the Kingdom of God The Garden of God?

Those poor birds will have to watch out for prowling cats, and I have to "discourage" squirrels from hoarding peanuts in my containers, but that is for now. When God's Kingdom becomes the New Heaven and New Earth, we enjoy him/garden forever.

 

[Depleted]

I am not sure what you mean. Humanity is not billions of years old. Our planet is.

Homo sapiens sapiens (our species) is cca 100-200 thousand years old.

We've got no way of knowing how old the planet is other than five days older than Man... unless, of course, you don't believe the very beginning of the Bible.

 

[Miri]

If it was passed down through the generations, it only came through one family -- Noah's.

I do think of it as Eden. Eden is what I want my backyard to look like. There were no weeds. I mean, literally, weeds came at the punishment for the Fall. (thorns and poisonous plants.) A bird could eat kernels of grains without worrying about a cat sneaking up on it. Pigeons didn't flap loudly to scare away the house wrens. Both birds could eat together. Squirrels didn't need to dig holes in the soil, because other squirrels weren't going to eat their hoard. Matter of fact, no hoard, because no winter to need to hoard. Lettuce and chard grew naturally, so rabbits never had a need to steal it out of someone's garden. Deer had all they needed, so no need to "deadhead" someone's bushes. It was a place of abundance with no fear of other critters, or even of Man. (God put the fear of Man on animals as they disembarked off the ark.)

But I see that same garden somewhere else in the Bible. Psalm 23. That's it! The Garden is God our shepherd, forever guiding us to the good spots and letting us know when it's time to rest. He's got the staff to protect us. He's keeping the cats away as we eat. And he is our food and water.

Doesn't that make the Kingdom of God The Garden of God?

Those poor birds will have to watch out for prowling cats, and I have to "discourage" squirrels from hoarding peanuts in my containers, but that is for now. When God's Kingdom becomes the New Heaven and New Earth, we enjoy him/garden forever.

I sooooo wish my garden was like the garden of Eden too, even better I wish that
once I get the hedge cut, the grass cut, the weeds pulled, the flowers in full bloom, that
it would just stop growing!

I wish the same about my hair too. I would save a fortune at the hair dressers.

 

[Miri]

lol, Many have looked at these same set of text/wording for various reasons and have come away from it with different ideas of it's meaning so maybe another's skill of the Hebrew and Greek word meanings might be superior to mine but never the less this is what I saw/see after pondering the same.

In the text you give the Hebrew word "gan" Strong's Hebrew: 1588. גָּן (gan) -- 42 Occurrences is used which is something hedged about,a garden ect. Strong's Hebrew: 1588. גָּן (gan) -- an enclosure, garden

In Eden (from genesis) there are two trees the tree of life and the tree of good and evil(Genesis 2:9). I point this out because the same tree of life is in the middle/midst of the paradise of God(Revelation 2:7,Revelation 22:2 and Revelation 21:2-3). The reason I used the word "paradise" Strong's Hebrew: 6508. pardes -- a preserve, park (Hebrew) or Strong's Greek: 3857. παράδεισος (paradeisos) -- a park, a garden, a paradise (Greek) is because of 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 in that Paul first referred to this same place in verse 2 as "third heaven" and then in verse 4 as "paradise" 2 Corinthians 12 Interlinear Bible .

So in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 both Paradise and third heaven are being used to denote an exact place and uses the two terms to denote the "same place"(important I think to notice).

There are some very interesting things to note about this,that is in Luke 23;43 this is the same place Jesus states they would be that day. another(and most often missed) is that in looking back to Genesis 2:15 God takes the man he made(from the earth) and puts him in Eden(Genesis 2:15) which is a "different place" other than the earth (i.e.third heaven/paradise) and the woman(Eve) was not created/made while Adam/man was in the earth but "after" he was placed in Eden,paradise,the third heaven ect. (Genesis 2:21-24) so Eve,the woman was made/created where on earth or in the third heaven?

Afterwards as we know from the scriptures Adam and his wife were sent out of this place and back into the earth where he was made but if you notice from the scriptures I gave from Revelation(there are others I left out for the sake of space and time) in the end the same third heaven,paradise,gan ect. is to be delivered back to man from heaven. So the same place where Adam was intended to be/live is restored in the end.

There are many other scriptures to bare in mind about this subject(much debate on some of them,lol) but I wish not to distract from your O.P. topic and tried to only answer only what this "Garden" is.

So you don’t think Eden was somewhere on planet Earth, have I got that right or am I
mis reading what you meant?

To be honest that’s never crossed my mind, I’ve always assumed Eden was on Earth
as it mentions its position in reference to 4 great rivers.

Its certainly interesting though that Jesus sought God the Father in a garden during His
last days on earth. Garden of Gethsemena, there is difinately something special
about gardens. Maybe it’s because they are God made rather than man made unlike
temples/buildings. Jesus often seemed to retire to creation, garden areas, the wilderness,
Mount of olives etc.

I know we can shape and design gardens but it’s not quite the same as creating the
plants which go in them. Leave them to their own devices and creation soon takes
over - says me staring at the fallen leaves and weeds. Lol

 

[Miri]

I am not sure what you mean. Humanity is not billions of years old. Our planet is.

Homo sapiens sapiens (our species) is cca 100-200 thousand years old.

I never said I believed in evolution, I said other people did. But if the garden of Eden was
part of an evolutionary process then it’s highly doubtful stories of it would have been
passed down the generations, which they clearly were.

 

[tooldtocare]

WHY THEY WERE CHOSEN
Why they were chosen follows in verses. Where they gathered is another story. The PROMISRED LAND turns out to be the USA

This is a time line from the time God talked to them face to face, His suggestions & what they have done with them up to today. There is a beginning but there is no end. They can always change their ways and embrace the stranger as one of their own.

Still the choice is theirs alone to make. Hopefully I will see this occur in my life time and if so I will include it here as the final entry on page 15. The truth is they were scattered & then they gathered just as it was written so long ago only the true Promised Land turns out to be the USA, not some place beyond the river and they are happy campers along with the rest of us, in that old United States of America; aka USA.

 

[stonesoffire]

Eden is also allegorically a picture of the Bride of Christ.

"A garden inclosed ismy sister, myspouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed." Son 4:12

 

[Nehemiah6]

Eden is also allegorically a picture of the Bride of Christ.

"A garden inclosed ismy sister, myspouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed." Son 4:12

The Bride of Christ eventually becomes the Lamb's Wife, and dwells with God and the Lamb in the New Jerusalem, where Paradise (formerly Eden) is also located. So everything ties together.

 

[Depleted]

WHY THEY WERE CHOSEN
Why they were chosen follows in verses. Where they gathered is another story. The PROMISRED LAND turns out to be the USA

This is a time line from the time God talked to them face to face, His suggestions & what they have done with them up to today. There is a beginning but there is no end. They can always change their ways and embrace the stranger as one of their own.

Still the choice is theirs alone to make. Hopefully I will see this occur in my life time and if so I will include it here as the final entry on page 15. The truth is they were scattered & then they gathered just as it was written so long ago only the true Promised Land turns out to be the USA, not some place beyond the river and they are happy campers along with the rest of us, in that old United States of America; aka USA.

Have you yet figured out you posted fiction in an unrelated thread yet?

But, congratulations. I always thought some Americans might be so myopic they think the Bible and God is all about the US. You just proved my theory is true.