Did Jesus abolish the law? Should we keep the commandments?

[LoveGodForever]

I've thought this many times myself. I wonder if the Hebrew roots/ sda cults are 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt sure they have the right day?

What I find amazing is that some people feel the need to resort to name calling.

This is because they can''t make their case with the Word of God so they feel threatened and feel the need to attack the messengers of the Word instead of the message of the Word.

If you know God's Word you should be able to make your case. It is clear you do not or you would have done so.

 

[gb9]

well, when someone says the same thing over and over, will not give an answer to questions, that is a person who does not have an actual theology . because real theology can answer a question. cult theology can only repeat the same things over and over, and ties everything back to Sabbath, no matter what.

last time I checked, the Cross and the empty tomb are the center of Christian theology, not Sinai and Sabbath.

 

[LoveGodForever]

well, when someone says the same thing over and over, will not give an answer to questions, that is a person who does not have an actual theology . because real theology can answer a question. cult theology can only repeat the same things over and over, and ties everything back to Sabbath, no matter what. last time I checked, the Cross and the empty tomb are the center of Christian theology, not Sinai and Sabbath.

Really gb9? Are you telling the truth? I have answered all your posts with scripture and you accuse me now of not answering any of your posts or your questions? Well golly gee here is me thinking all this time it was the other way around and it was you and your friends that have not been answering my questions or posts.

Please show me one post and question I have not answered or replied to you. If you cannot why are you saying such things?

Jesus is the center of the Word of God because he is the Word. If you do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW the Word you do not know him who loves all. Unbelievers have no part in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Yep God's Sabbath the 4th commandment is indeed a part of the Word of God and once again it is time for my repeat signature that is at the end of my posts that you complain about above that I am repeating. If you do not believe it true show me from God's Word. If you cannot why do you not believe God's Word and follow it?

................................

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

There is NO scripture that says Jesus is a Sabbath. Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

 

[MarcR]

You still don't understand that it is the 10 commandments that are being talked about?

You are contending that the Lord Jesus abolished the law, meaning the levitical law, but people are still bound to work at commandments (the 10)?

IMO the Law is not abolished. It is still in full force and effect!

The intent and purpose of the Law is to persuade people that they cannot please God by their own efforts.

Regarding the ten commandments, they are part of the Law; specifically part of Exo 20.

Nobody keeps them to the standard that Jesus set in Mat 5.

There is certainly nothing wrong with keeping them to the best of our ability.

Depending on keeping them as necessary to our walk with the Lord is at best a misunderstanding.

Teaching others that their walk with the Lord depends on Law keeping is contrary to the teachings of the NT.

 

[UnderGrace]

As Roger said, how do you even know it is the true seventh day, since the calendar is not the same, you would have to be sure of the first day of creation and have kept track 6000 years or so to know the true seventh day.

Hmm I wondering if you have an answer?

Because God's Word says it is a day........

Exodus 20
8, Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9, Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Matthew 12
8, For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.



Col 2 is referring to the Mosaic Shadow laws for remission of Sin which includes the New Moons, annual ceremonial festival sabbaths and holy convocations of Leviticus 23 which could fall on any day of the week (these are not the weekly Sabbath of God's 4th commandment) that were pointing to Jesus and have their fulfillment at the cross (see Exodus 20:8-11; John 19:31;Lev 23:24; 32)

When one of the Festival sabbaths (not weekly 4th commandment) or Holy convocations of Leviticus 23 fell on a normal weekly Sabbath (4th commandment) it was called a high Sabbath day ..................

John 19:31 (BSB)
It was the day of Preparation, and the next day was a High Sabbath. So in order that the bodies would not remain on the cross during the Sabbath, the Jews asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies removed.

John 19:31 (KJV)
The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, for that sabbath day was an High day, besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

John 19:31 (NIV)
Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.

The annual festival Sabbaths of Lev 23 were different to God's weekly 7th day Sabbath of the 4th commandmenthere are a few examples below...........

Leviticus 23
4, These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.
5, In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S Passover.
6, And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
7, In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
8, But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

Leviticus 23:24
Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.

Leviticus 23
26, And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
27, Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
28, And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.
29, For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.
30, And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people.
31, Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
32, It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.

Now these special Sabbaths that were NOT the weekly Sabbath of God's 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) could fall on ANY day of the week and whatever day it fell on NO Work was to be carried out hence special or uncommon sabbath. (see High Sabbaths wiki)

Here you go plenty more scriptures linking the Old Testament and New Testament scriptures here in the COL 2 thread linked..

Hope this helps......

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten ( Exodus 20:8-11 ) and like any of the ten, if we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness w e are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place. There is NO scripture that says Jesus is a Sabbath.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

If you disagree with the above by all means prove your case from the Word of God. If you cannot you should BELIEVE God's Word because ONLY God's Word is true (Romans 3:4)

 

[MarcR]

Where do you get the "613" number regarding God's Commandments for men?

From the Talmud which enumerates and expands on each of the commands in the Law.

 

[MarcR]

Where do you get the "613" number regarding God's Commandments for men?

From the Talmud which enumerates and expands on each of the commands in the Law.

 

[LoveGodForever]

As Roger said, how do you even know it is the true seventh day, since the calendar is not the same, you would have to be sure of the first day of creation and have kept track 6000 years or so to know the true seventh day.

Hmm I wondering if you have an answer?

Nothing has changed. There has been no change to the number of days in the week. The only changes in Calendars have effected the number of days and weeks in a year and the name of the days from 1-7 to Sunday to Saturday.

The Jews have been keeping the Sabbath unbroken for thousands of years. Various historical records have shown the Sabbath being kept in most countries around the world. So no problem yes Friday sunset to Saturday sunset is God's Sabbath day which is the 7th Day of the week. The Thursday/Friday days are normally the preparation days to get everything ready before the Sabbath begins.

 

[gb9]

Nothing has changed. There has been no change to the number of days in the week. The only changes in Calendars have effected the number of days and weeks in a year and the name of the days from 1-7 to Sunday to Saturday.

The Jews have been keeping the Sabbath unbroken for thousands of years. Various historical records have shown the Sabbath being kept in most countries around the world. So no problem yes Friday sunset to Saturday sunset is God's Sabbath day which is the 7th Day of the week. The Thursday/Friday days are normally the preparation days to get everything ready before the Sabbath begins.

God gave very specific instructions as to when the feasts and Sabbath's were kept. if you are not 100% sure they correspond with the Hebrew sacred calendar , then you are not Biblically keeping it. the current one they use is based on Babylonian records. do a little research on what you believe. it might break the cult mindset.

 

[LoveGodForever]

God gave very specific instructions as to when the feasts and Sabbath's were kept. if you are not 100% sure they correspond with the Hebrew sacred calendar , then you are not Biblically keeping it. the current one they use is based on Babylonian records. do a little research on what you believe. it might break the cult mindset.

Hello gb9

We must believe and follow the Word of God. It is the same Sabbath Jesus kept and followed who is our example and the same Sabbath Paul and all the other disciples followed that God's Word is witness to well after the Babylonian records. Now if Jesus and all the disciples correctly followed it and Jesus is our example it is good enough for me. What about you?

Signature time.................................

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place. There is NO scripture that says Jesus is a Sabbath.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

 

[UnderGrace]

Well the lunar calendar was used by the Jews for all feasts days, then there was the Julian calendar and then the Gregorian

calendar which follows the solar cycle, it is impossible to sort through the calendar changes that have occurred over the millennia

to arrive at the true Sabbath.

The fact the Jews have kept the same day (Saturday) only means they have kept the same calendar. It is a known historical fact that after 70 AD the Jews struggled to keep their historical calendar.

You would need to follow a lunar calendar to be keeping the true Sabbath is this what you do?

Nothing has changed. There has been no change to the number of days in the week. The only changes in Calendars have effected the number of days and weeks in a year and the name of the days from 1-7 to Sunday to Saturday.

The Jews have been keeping the Sabbath unbroken for thousands of years. Various historical records have shown the Sabbath being kept in most countries around the world. So no problem yes Friday sunset to Saturday sunset is God's Sabbath day which is the 7th Day of the week. The Thursday/Friday days are normally the preparation days to get everything ready before the Sabbath begins.

 

[gb9]

Hello gb9

We must believe and follow the Word of God. It is the same Sabbath Jesus kept and followed who is our example and the same Sabbath Paul and all the other disciples followed that God's Word is witness to well after the Babylonian records. Now if Jesus and all the disciples correctly followed it and Jesus is our example it is good enough for me. What about you?

Signature time.................................

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place. There is NO scripture that says Jesus is a Sabbath.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

their is plenty of Scripture in the O.T and N.T about making no idols. if what you are doing is not making an idol of Sabbath, then I do not know what is.

the center of Christianity is not Sabbath, it is the Cross and the empty tomb.

real theology can answer questions. yours can't. it is not real.

 

[LoveGodForever]

their is plenty of Scripture in the O.T and N.T about making no idols. if what you are doing is not making an idol of Sabbath, then I do not know what is. the center of Christianity is not Sabbath, it is the Cross and the empty tomb.
real theology can answer questions. yours can't. it is not real.

Hello Friend,

SIN is breaking God's Law no matter what commandment you are talking about. If you are living a life of known unrepentant SIN you do not know God and your SINS will keep you OUT of God's Kingdom because you are not BELIEVING the Word of God. Those who do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word have no place in God's Kingdom.

Acts 17
30, And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now <When a knowledge of the truth comes> commands all men every where to repent:
31, Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

links to........

James 2
8, If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12, So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
links to ........

Hebrews 10
26, For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,27, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

links to .........

Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
(Revelation 14:6-8; 18:4)

Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

.................................................

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9).

Following the teachings and traditions of men will keep you out of God's Kingdom.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

 

[JaumeJ]

When on's heart is in the wrong place he is unable to understand the wisdom of God. He must seek the Holy Spirit in spirit and truth.


When one, having eyes, does not see, and having ears, does not hear, he remains ignorant of what is visible and of what is audible.


Having received the law inscriibed upon our heartss, our hearts bear witness to what is God's Wisdom and will.


Jesus Christ has fuflilled the law and teh prophets but he Has abolished nothing more and nothing less than that curse, death, which is nailed to the cross with Him


To the sensitive, Jesus Christ has taught the law yet is in effect under grace for we must understand the law under grace applying faith, mercy and justice.. To say He does not teach this is wrong.


To teach against obedience is wrong.


If a person has received the truth by the Holy Spirit, his heart bears witness to the laws that remain including the Commandments, for those remaining are included in love..


The love of God does not teach against His own wisdom and the understanding He imparts to HHis childre by means of His HOly Spirit..


Grace does not teach disobdience of the Will of our Father. Remember always disobedience is sin, even in the garden, disobedience, without the law was sin for Adam sinned.


God bless all who allow for God's will, and all who will, amen.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Well the lunar calendar was used by the Jews for all feasts days, then there was the Julian calendar and then the Gregorian

calendar which follows the solar cycle, it is impossible to sort through the calendar changes that have occurred over the millennia

to arrive at the true Sabbath.

The fact the Jews have kept the same day (Saturday) only means they have kept the same calendar. It is a known historical fact that after 70 AD the Jews struggled to keep their historical calendar.

You would need to follow a lunar calendar to be keeping the true Sabbath is this what you do?

This only has reference and importance in relation to keeping of the annual feast days. It has no relevance to the keeping of God's 4th commandment which is every 7th day of the week which has always been kept and never lost.

 

[loveme1]

Once again we see that the only Commandment that is disputed is the 4th Commandment the rest are accepted as Loving GOD and each other.. the fundamental of Love...

Not everyone believes even the Least Commandment includes the 4th.. and not all see the Lord teaching us how to Keep the Sabbath as part of the New Covenant.


If you Believe not those things then it is not Faith that worketh by Love and the burden would be petrifying.. the idea that one wrong move on the Sabbath day equates to death is now lifted by the Lord Himself, you are under Grace at Liberty in Christ to rest.. set aside the day weekly as GOD desires.


The condemnation is no more when we are in Christ so if in good conscience we do not have the day exactly as instructed in the Old Covenant.. our Faith that work by Love is what pleases Heavenly Father.. the willing heart is more than the heart of stone...

We are to Believe... the Faith of Abraham is what makes us children of the Most High.

It is sad when we start to accuse each other..

Serve the King in Righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.. yes this makes us acceptable to GOD..

If you regard not the Sabbath despite what the Lord taught then you will give account of yourself.. just as those who do will too. Faithful or unfaithful is not our call to make.

 

[PS]

So God recommended breaking His own law?

The ten words (Exodus 20)are clearly a part of the covenant with Israel based on suzerainty treaties of 12 th century BC.

These stated the name of the suzerain, what he had done for them, that he was to be honoured above all others, and what he required of them in response.

There are no grounds for separating the 'words' from what follows. ALL are God's and are addressed to ISRAEL

RED. I am glad you said that. The answer is a strong NO. God is unchanging and would not command us to break his own law which is for all time.

This was the God of the Jews, who have their own national God. You said it yourself, this is ISRAEL'S God.

 

[PS]

But GOD knew that if they remained alive they would lead Israel astray. It was because they were later disobedient (merciful?) that they left the Canaanites alive who proved their downfall.

GOD had a right to condemn whom He would.

You are correct and the Israelites did intermarry. Moses even married a Midianite woman.

The thing is, we are commanded not to kill and as I have just said God is unchanging. Also the Almighty can do what is necessary regarding the wicked. The flood is an example. God does not need us to get our hands covered in blood to do his work. By doing that we condemn ourselves to a fate worse than death and that is not God's will.

 

[PS]

GOD was teaching is people how to live and the heinousness of crimes for which He had given the death penalty. They were crimes for which no sacrifice availed. They must not even be buried in the land the same day. Israel would thus see the heinousness of the crime. To begin with the law was strictly carried out.

Later God could be merciful to David (Ps 51) and others. But David said 'you do not desire sacrifice else would I give it'. He knew that no sacrifice could prevail. His only hope was the mercy of God,

God is merciful, for which I am so grateful. We see this with Jesus who gave his life for us, so that we shall have eternal life. Jesus gave us an example of his (God's) mercy when he prevented the Jews from stoning to death the woman caught in adultery. There are two laws here, there is God's law set out in the Ten Commandments, and there is Jewish law, that parades as God's law, but which opposes God. This is the problem Jesus had with the scribes and Pharisees who opposed him and by doing that, they opposed the true God, God the Father.

 

[PS]

In Daniel 7:25 The enemy "Will think to change times and laws," referring to the "Time of trouble such as never was," before the end, "a falling away comes first." People deceived to think they can fulfill the law, don't see their need of the Saviour (new age belief). In short rejecting the Holy Spirit, and believe they become a god. This was the error of the religious readers who opposed Jesus.
Contrary to public opinion, God doesn't need our help and neither could we fix this. It's prophesied: "The time will come that those who kill you will think they are doing God a favor."

Very true, but you know what, I think people have always done things in the name of God. They were doing it in the days of Moses, President Bush went into Iraq saying "God told him" and the Muslims are doing what Moses did in the name of their God.

Trouble is, they have the wrong God.