A different angle

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KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
717
113
#41
God doesn't cease to be in one place just because he is also in another. That's like saying if the speed limit is 80mph (112km/hr) here, the speed limit can't be 80mph (112km/hr) somewhere else at the same time. A word (law / truth) is not lessened by being in more than one place at one time. God is his word. Jesus is God(the word) made flesh.

You could also say that God is truth. Where truth is, there God is. The truth was made manifest in the flesh and was walking around among us, willingly subject to the limits of mankind, but remaining true and sinless. But that didn't stop or lessen the effect of truth throughout the rest of creation. Truth remains truth regardless of what form you see it in.
 
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Apr 23, 2017
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#42
why cant people just believe "the Church" and believe the trinity u see.......... am i catholic for saying that????? just believe "THE CHURCH"!!!!!!!!!!!!

its in the bible. u dont need to overstand u see. just need to believe.
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
717
113
#43
Did Jesus ever say I am, I AM?
Yes, but he didn't need to say it twice. Once was enough.

Joh 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he.(The "he" is italicized because it was actually added by the translators. Jesus only spoke "I AM") And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
Joh 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#44
why cant people just believe "the Church" and believe the trinity u see.......... am i catholic for saying that????? just believe "THE CHURCH"!!!!!!!!!!!!

its in the bible. u dont need to overstand u see. just need to believe.
Can't comply with that, Brother! Been there! Done that! My heart is still being pieced together, BECAUSE of that!
Yet? If "church" is what floats your boat? Don't let my comments "rain" on you. :p
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
717
113
#45
why cant people just believe "the Church" and believe the trinity u see.......... am i catholic for saying that????? just believe "THE CHURCH"!!!!!!!!!!!!

its in the bible. u dont need to overstand u see. just need to believe.
Because when a person believes "the church" as if "the church" is as good or reliable as God, that person has just set up an idol in his heart.

And honestly, if you take it to God UNTIL he answers you (as you should take all things to God before believing you have a reliable understanding) you'll find out he says something different on the matter than what "the church" does...because HE doesn't misinterpret his word.
 
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NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#46
Yes, but he didn't need to say it twice. Once was enough.

Joh 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he.(The "he" is italicized because it was actually added by the translators. Jesus only spoke "I AM") And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
Joh 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
I fully imagine, they were looking for Jesus to refrain from answering them. Which is why they fell back (startled, surprised) when He answered them. Cuz, Jesus faked 'em out! Right outta their proverbial jock straps He did!
But, to be sure! In these verses, Jesus was NOT saying "I AM!", as a proclamation to being the Father, or God, for that matter. Jesus was just answering their inquiry, as to whom they were looking for.
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
717
113
#47
I fully imagine, they were looking for Jesus to refrain from answering them. Which is why they fell back (startled, surprised) when He answered them. Cuz, Jesus faked 'em out! Right outta their proverbial jock straps He did!
But, to be sure! In these verses, Jesus was NOT saying "I AM!", as a proclamation to being the Father, or God, for that matter. Jesus was just answering their inquiry, as to whom they were looking for.
Joh_8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Jesus has always, and will always exist. Seeing him as "the son" is only a change in how we see him.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,045
514
113
#48
when someone starts things off by saying "I'm not going to insult you but....." I usually roll my eyes and say nice try BUT....
Your right gdyloves, I should not have started my post the way I did and I sincerely apologize. The truth is that my "frustration" got the better of me because the questions you asked I have heard a thousand times over the last 50 plus years. Again, I'm sorry and I should have employed 1 Peter 3:15.

Now, can you please tell me what I said in my post that you think is "NOT" Biblical? Or if you have any other questions I will be happy to address.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#49
Joh_8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Jesus has always, and will always exist. Seeing him as "the son" is only a change in how we see him.
And? I'm not so very certain that it wasn't the Father speaking through Jesus, when making this statement.
In a manner very much, like the Holy Spirit is to "give us" that which we should say, "in that hour."
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,598
13,017
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#50
1- why does God say he is the same today and tomorrow and that he never changes if he new he would be taking on a new name and form?
The Bible says that God never changes. But the Bible also says that Jesus Christ is the same, yesterday, today, and forever. So we can reconcile these two statements by remembering that one of the names of Jesus is IMMANUEL (God with us) and the other is YESHUA (God is our salvation). As you can see it is the same God, but not the same Divine Person, since the WORD was also God.
2-why would God make such a point to make it so clear that he is the only God if the trinity says 3 are God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit)?
The only God is also the TRIUNE GODHEAD, so there never was a conflict. The Hebrew ELOHIM is uni-plural, which means that it reveals three in one as God.
3-if Jesus is God in the human form who was "in charge" when he was an infant.
God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.
 

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
Jan 15, 2011
6,032
3,285
113
#51
The evidence for the plurality in essence of our singular God runs throughout the Old Testament.

Deut 6:4 (ESV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]“Hear, O Israel: The Lord (Yahweh) our God (Elohim), the Lord is one.[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]5 [/SUP]You shall love the Lord (Yahweh) your God (Elohim) with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

Yahweh commonly is translated as Jehova or Lord in English translations and is singular whereas Elohim which is most commonly translated as God in English translations is plural.

The plural Elohim is used to reference God over 1,000 times in the Old Testament.
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
717
113
#52
And? I'm not so very certain that it wasn't the Father speaking through Jesus, when making this statement.
In a manner very much, like the Holy Spirit is to "give us" that which we should say, "in that hour."
NayborBear,

Thanks for a non-attacking answer, as those seem rare in here. And your answer is rather insightful.

The only way I know to answer is to ask if you are a person who knows how to 'get' things from God. (Like someone might say "Hey, I was praying this morning and 'got' Psalm 18. Then I read it and found that it fit my situation perfectly.") If you are, then I suggest praying about the Godhead until God 'gets' an answer to you. (no I'm not saying that mockingly)

As you know, Paul distinctly says that godliness(God's nature) is a great mystery:

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

What I've learned about "great mystery" type topics (generally) is that we can't seem to accurately wrap our heads around them without going to God directly and asking him to open our understanding. When he does, then things that we couldn't grasp before, now seem plain to us... and things we'd previously thought unmovable begin to shake and crumble.

However...what we had before seeking God might not have been from God at all because we got it from man (either pastor, fellow believer, or self)<--none of which are as trustworthy as God.

I believe that is why Saul/Paul purposely went into the wilderness, to seek God for himself, instead of going to seek Peter or the rest of the apostles. He'd already been deceived by religion once... and he didn't want to be deceived by religion again.

Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. <--((that comes through prayer and seeking God directly rather than through man...even apostles))
Gal 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
Gal 1:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Gal 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
Gal 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
Gal 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

And as you know it paid off because later, when he saw Peter, he was not led astray with Peter's dissimulation.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#53
if I say I am going to the store, that means I will be going to the store in no way am I trying to say I AM god.
Did Jesus ever say I am, I AM?
Scripture already given.

You are playing games. Put on blinders and only see what I want to see.

Nothing to see here.

Buhbye
 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,991
338
83
#54
The 3, Father, Son, & Holy Spirit, are 3 aspects of the same entity (God). Jesus was the physical manifestation of God in the flesh, but he said; "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father" (John 14:9) and "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30).

So, one God... The trinity or tri-unity just describes the 3 attributes of a single Godhead, the 3 work and have always existed as one entity.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth". Here, Elohiym is the plural form of God. Therefore, as scripture was inspired and man began to write the Word, it was evident to the writers that God was made of more than 1 Person, but at the same time there was one Godhead.

The Father is the unseen, omnipresent Source of all being, revealed in and by the Son, experienced in and by the Holy Spirit. The Son proceeds from the Father, and the Spirit from the Son. With reference to God's creation, the Father is the Thought behind it, the Son is the Word calling it forth, and the Spirit is the Deed making it a reality.

Just as a person thinks, speaks, and acts, God is all knowledge, Christ is the expression and manifestation, and the Spirit is the action and deed. The 3 are united persona's of one entity that best describe the Godhead.



 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,991
338
83
#55
The trinity is not a description of 3 separate gods, but multifaceted attributes representing a single God. God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. All the divine attributes ascribed to the Father and the Son are equally ascribed to the Holy Spirit. "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one" (1 John 5:7).

[SUP]"[/SUP]Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me Philip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, show us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works sake"
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] (John 14:8-11)
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
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#56
Father-->Intellect
Son-->Body
Spirit--->Spirit

Just as Christina is one person but three parts....

Christina
Mind
Body
Spirit

All three equally you but distinct......!
 
Aug 8, 2017
315
4
0
#57
The 3, Father, Son, & Holy Spirit, are 3 aspects of the same entity (God). Jesus was the physical manifestation of God in the flesh, but he said; "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father" (John 14:9) and "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30).

So, one God... The trinity or tri-unity just describes the 3 attributes of a single Godhead, the 3 work and have always existed as one entity.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth". Here, Elohiym is the plural form of God. Therefore, as scripture was inspired and man began to write the Word, it was evident to the writers that God was made of more than 1 Person, but at the same time there was one Godhead.

The Father is the unseen, omnipresent Source of all being, revealed in and by the Son, experienced in and by the Holy Spirit. The Son proceeds from the Father, and the Spirit from the Son. With reference to God's creation, the Father is the Thought behind it, the Son is the Word calling it forth, and the Spirit is the Deed making it a reality.

Just as a person thinks, speaks, and acts, God is all knowledge, Christ is the expression and manifestation, and the Spirit is the action and deed. The 3 are united persona's of one entity that best describe the Godhead.



Thank you Dan58 that was very insightful I really appreciate the way you explained it. I would like to let it soak In a little. I just wanted u to know I seen your post.
 
Aug 8, 2017
315
4
0
#58
Father-->Intellect
Son-->Body
Spirit--->Spirit

Just as Christina is one person but three parts....

Christina
Mind
Body
Spirit

All three equally you but distinct......!
This makes sense to me thank you
 

mcubed

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2013
1,449
218
63
#60
Believe it or not I get your objections, I am a Jew and this was hard for me. First objection: When did G-d change? In essence He took on human form in Torah. His nature has never changed (people thinks it has but all unsaved are going to hell). The trinity: Torah calls Israel and Ephraim His son would it not make sense to call His Messiah Son? Trinity is not in the Bible, but it can rightfully be argued for. G-d rule as a child: Why or how did you place limitations on The Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipotent G-d!?! Why settle for a child He stepped out of heaven in human form for over 33 years and when we get to heaven we will feel His nail scarred hands and pierced side. The Lord said to my Lord sit at my right side... Dumb founding isn't!?!



Let me ask you how did G-d speak and create the heaven and the Earth in 6 days? How is Genesis 1:1 true?... In the beginning G-d!?!