Are you saved if you are not obedient?
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E
Well there we go, I should have known. As I thought, Now I know why you are using the “excuse or defend sin, or sin is defeating me” argument.
Being in the flesh is just a term, Flesh means self. Spirit means other. All in the flesh means is we are at a point or a time when we are focused on self. And not on God. This could be a moment, or it could be a period of time when our focus is off God. And on self.
ALL SIN is caused when we take our eyes of God and put our focus on self. SO ALL SIN is a result of the flesh. Thats why Paul said if we SEEK AFTER THE THINGS OF THE SPIRIT (others focused) we will NOT FULFILL the lust of the flesh.
so you have an issue, Either you are sinless, or you to have the same struggle paul had. And romans 7 applies to you also. Or else you are pre salvation, in which case, romans 7 does not apply to you at all. You have not come to that stage yet.
Being in the flesh is just a term, Flesh means self. Spirit means other. All in the flesh means is we are at a point or a time when we are focused on self. And not on God. This could be a moment, or it could be a period of time when our focus is off God. And on self.
ALL SIN is caused when we take our eyes of God and put our focus on self. SO ALL SIN is a result of the flesh. Thats why Paul said if we SEEK AFTER THE THINGS OF THE SPIRIT (others focused) we will NOT FULFILL the lust of the flesh.
so you have an issue, Either you are sinless, or you to have the same struggle paul had. And romans 7 applies to you also. Or else you are pre salvation, in which case, romans 7 does not apply to you at all. You have not come to that stage yet.
If this would be true, then the present ministry of Jesus Christ has lost power. And this will never be. The blood of Jesus has power to draw all men to repentance, Repentance leads to the circumcisiion by an act of God on "flesh" or our human nature.
And the Spirit of Christ fills ones spirit. Illumination of truth!
And the Spirit of Christ fills ones spirit. Illumination of truth!
R
True. 
So to remedy, we all died with Jesus, and all given life. The destination where we end up though depends on whether we obey (believe) the gospel or not. Because the wrath of God will fall on those who disobey. (Unbelief)
We hear, believe, repent, receive.
So to remedy, we all died with Jesus, and all given life. The destination where we end up though depends on whether we obey (believe) the gospel or not. Because the wrath of God will fall on those who disobey. (Unbelief)
We hear, believe, repent, receive.
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R
No, I'm not in bondage to sin like I was before I was saved. If you are, then you have yet to come into the Spirit part of being born of water AND Spirit.
Romans 7 is Paul's pre-Spirit relationship with God. Far more are in this stage of their journey to God than those who have gotten to chapter 8 and are no longer in bondage to sin like they were before receiving the Spirit. Sinning and being in bondage to sin are two entirely different things. If you are in the bondage of sin of Romans 7 then you probably are not in the liberty of the Spirit of Romans 8. The liberty of the Spirit does not mean you don't sin. It means you are not owned by sin as an unbeliever without the Spirit is like Paul describes in chapter 7.
Romans 7 is Paul's pre-Spirit relationship with God. Far more are in this stage of their journey to God than those who have gotten to chapter 8 and are no longer in bondage to sin like they were before receiving the Spirit. Sinning and being in bondage to sin are two entirely different things. If you are in the bondage of sin of Romans 7 then you probably are not in the liberty of the Spirit of Romans 8. The liberty of the Spirit does not mean you don't sin. It means you are not owned by sin as an unbeliever without the Spirit is like Paul describes in chapter 7.
When Jesus ascended to Father, He sent back Holy Spirit to the world
Joh 16:7 However, I am telling you the truth. It is for your advantage that I am going away, because if I do not go away the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
Joh 16:8 When he comes, he will convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment—
Joh 16:9 of sin, because they do not believe in me;
Joh 16:10 of righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will no longer see me;
Joh 16:11 and of judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.
Joh 16:12 "I still have a lot to say to you, but you cannot bear it now.
Yet when the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own accord, but will speak whatever he hears and will declare to you the things that are to come.
Joh 16:14 He will glorify me, because he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
Joh 16:15 All that the Father has is mine. That is why I said, 'He will take what is mine and declare it to you.
The Levitical Priesthood ended. The ministry of reconciliation began.
Joh 16:7 However, I am telling you the truth. It is for your advantage that I am going away, because if I do not go away the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
Joh 16:8 When he comes, he will convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment—
Joh 16:9 of sin, because they do not believe in me;
Joh 16:10 of righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will no longer see me;
Joh 16:11 and of judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.
Joh 16:12 "I still have a lot to say to you, but you cannot bear it now.
Yet when the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own accord, but will speak whatever he hears and will declare to you the things that are to come.
Joh 16:14 He will glorify me, because he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
Joh 16:15 All that the Father has is mine. That is why I said, 'He will take what is mine and declare it to you.
The Levitical Priesthood ended. The ministry of reconciliation began.
R
Paul said in Romans 8 that if you are still in the flesh then you do not have the Spirit. And if you do not have the Spirit then you do not belong to Christ.
If you by your own admission say you have a Romans 7 relationship with God then you have to honestly check to see if you are really in the faith. You can get mad and rationalize your condition, or you can check yourself. But just know that defensiveness is always a bad sign.
If you by your own admission say you have a Romans 7 relationship with God then you have to honestly check to see if you are really in the faith. You can get mad and rationalize your condition, or you can check yourself. But just know that defensiveness is always a bad sign.
E
1. If you have not been born of water and spirit, your not saved.
2. If your saved, You are not in bondage to the law and sin. (However the war is still there, you still have to chose to follow the flesh (sin) or the spirit (not sin)
Well there you go, Funny How you ask me to name names, when you are open of them.
People who have not yet been saved have not had the romans 7 experience yet,. They have no spirit to even be at war with the spirit. ALL they can do is satisfy the flesh. Thus they are in bondage to sin, because they have no spirit to empower them to even help them, and as far as romans 8 goes? They can’t even think of this, or get this power yet. Because again, they have not even given thge spirit.
You have these passages wrong, Romans 7 is the war within EVERY BELIEVER, romans 8 is how we have victory.
Romans 7 says the law exposes sin, romans 8 tells us how to overcome sin. (And ps. It is NOT THE LAW)
2. If your saved, You are not in bondage to the law and sin. (However the war is still there, you still have to chose to follow the flesh (sin) or the spirit (not sin)
Well there you go, Funny How you ask me to name names, when you are open of them.
People who have not yet been saved have not had the romans 7 experience yet,. They have no spirit to even be at war with the spirit. ALL they can do is satisfy the flesh. Thus they are in bondage to sin, because they have no spirit to empower them to even help them, and as far as romans 8 goes? They can’t even think of this, or get this power yet. Because again, they have not even given thge spirit.
You have these passages wrong, Romans 7 is the war within EVERY BELIEVER, romans 8 is how we have victory.
Romans 7 says the law exposes sin, romans 8 tells us how to overcome sin. (And ps. It is NOT THE LAW)
R
Not everybody who claims to have been born of water and Spirit have been. Those who have been born of both by God's grace can usually tell who may not have been born of the Spirit part yet. Call it what you want, but God's grace is what it is......I am what I am by God's grace. It's not because of me. And that hardly means water only Christians can't have God's grace too.
E
You are showing me you are not listening to a thing I have said, but you are stuck in whatever you have been taught.
I am in romans 8, I have preached over and over in all these law threads that romans 8 is the means by which we overcome sin and are obedient people
You However must think romans 7 has no bearing on you, to which the only possible response one can make to you is
1. You are sinless
2. You do not understand romans 7 and what sin is.
I am in romans 8, I have preached over and over in all these law threads that romans 8 is the means by which we overcome sin and are obedient people
You However must think romans 7 has no bearing on you, to which the only possible response one can make to you is
1. You are sinless
2. You do not understand romans 7 and what sin is.
R
No, I'm not 'baptismal regeneration'. Water is figurative of repenting and acknowledging God, which in John's/ Jesus' time was done by being publicly water baptized, but water does not mean water baptism specifically. Paul encountered a group of this kind of 'believer'. He then baptized them in the Spirit.
Lot's of people hear the call of God and come to him without being born again.....yet. We know who these people probably are by the fact that they are still stuck in a Romans 7 relationship with God. They have responded to God's call with their lives but they don't have a spiritual relationship with Him. They're still 'in the flesh', which means they don't have the Spirit. They are not born again yet. It's not until they come to a Luke 18:13 place that they can receive the Spirit and fulfill the 'Spirit' part of 'water AND Spirit'. It seems few get to the Spirit part. And it's no surprise that it is these 'just short of the Spirit' people in the church that cause so much trouble.
Lot's of people hear the call of God and come to him without being born again.....yet. We know who these people probably are by the fact that they are still stuck in a Romans 7 relationship with God. They have responded to God's call with their lives but they don't have a spiritual relationship with Him. They're still 'in the flesh', which means they don't have the Spirit. They are not born again yet. It's not until they come to a Luke 18:13 place that they can receive the Spirit and fulfill the 'Spirit' part of 'water AND Spirit'. It seems few get to the Spirit part. And it's no surprise that it is these 'just short of the Spirit' people in the church that cause so much trouble.