Verse for "once saved always saved"?

[eternally-gratefull]

Exactly how many aspects of faith alone theology must one properly accept in order to receive the grace alone salvation?

Exactly how strong must someones faith be in this trust only theology?

If someone slips up and thinks for a moment they may need to repent, does this take away their "grace only by faith only" salvation?

Does thinking you need to repent of the need for repentance cause a problem?

And you think I trust in the law?

You keep digging and falling short.

How much faith?

The man who had a sick child said I believe help me in my unbelief, Becauae he came to the end of himself and had no place else to turn, so he called out. And jesus responded.

Jesus said faith of a mustard see will move mountains.

If you think you need to repent because you just found out something you were doing was a sin feel free. If your repenting to maintain your salvation. Well your misunderstanding the word repent. And you may as well go to a priest and confess and do a bunch of Hail Mary’s, it will hep you about that much.

People who repented and placed their faith in christ have repented. If you havce not yet repented. You have no faith. Your still failing to realise your dire situation..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, I am fairly sure you are pushing predestination. And not the nice version, the nasty one.

I am pretty sure you have no clue what I believe, I am not calvanist, and am against their view of predestination. So you are sadly mistaken, again.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have been reading EG's post for over a year, not likely at all.

He is grasping for anything he can, And keeps falling short.

 

[UnderGrace]

Why do you not know this?

Do you not know salvation is a singular event?

Exactly how many aspects of faith alone theology must one properly accept in order to receive the grace alone salvation?

Exactly how strong must someones faith be in this trust only theology?

If someone slips up and thinks for a moment they may need to repent, does this take away their "grace only by faith only" salvation?

Does thinking you need to repent of the need for repentance cause a problem?

And you think I trust in the law?

 

[mailmandan]

Why do you not know this?

Do you not know salvation is a singular event?

Works-salvationists believe that salvation (having been saved through faith) is a process and not a one time event, because they confuse justification with ongoing sanctification.

 

[Grandpa]

Proponents of the doctrine of eternal security like to quote John 10:27-29 out of context and totally miss the assertion that Jesus was making—the very assertion that got Him crucified!

27. “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28. and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29. “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.” (NASB, 1995)

Here it is in context,

22. At that time the Feast of the Dedication took place at Jerusalem;
23. it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon.
24. The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, “How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”
25. Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me.
26. “But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
27. “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28. and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29. “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
30. “I and the Father are one.” (NASB, 1995)

In this passage, Jesus is asserting his deity. The importance of the words in verse 28 all but escapes the attention of many readers. Compare these two passages:

Isa. 43:13. “Even from eternity I am He, And there is none who can deliver out of My hand; I act and who can reverse it?” (NASB, 1995)

Wisdom 3:1. But the souls of the just are in the hand of God,
and no torment shall touch them. (NAB, 1986)

Jesus is telling the Jews that His hand is the hand of God, and that, therefore, He is God! But notice that there is nothing at all in any of these three verses that says that anyone is grasped in the hand of God so that he cannot escape if he wants to. The point is that it is the hand of God, and being the hand of God there is safety. Those who are in the hand of God are in Christ, and in Christ is the eternal life—and no where else! Anyone who chooses either actively or passively to depart from the Christian faith departs from Christ and necessarily departs from the life that is in Christ. Just as we possess the safety of God only while we abide in Christ, we possess the life of Christ only while we abide in Him. Eternal life is Christ’s life and we posses it only in Him. The Greek adjective translated ‘eternal’ modifies the Greek noun translated ‘life,’ and thus describes not our possession of the life, but the life itself—the life of Christ that we share with Him when we are in Him.

The context of Isa. 43:13, quoted above, is important to the understanding of that verse and John 10:27-29.

It looks like the same situation applies now as it did then.

It is the proponents of failed and corrupt religion that don't believe the Lord Jesus Christ.

John 10:25-26
[FONT=&quot]25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Do you believe the Lord Jesus does what He says He will do?

John 10:27-28
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

The Lord Jesus gives His sheep Eternal Life. Eternal means everlasting.

Eternal Life cannot be taken away. It lasts forever. No one can say "Well I had eternal life but then I didn't want it so I walked away and exerted my will over God"

Catholics don't believe this. It would be detrimental to their cash flow. What happens when people find out that they need the Lord Jesus Christ and don't need a pope?

What would happen when people find out that they need the Lord Jesus Christ and they don't need mary or any of the dead saints?

In the eyes of the Catholic church they would become protestants. In the eyes of God they would become Christians.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.[/FONT]

There is a reason why the Catholic church didn't want the people to have the bible. Because they could just look up what is taught and see that its wrong.

If you don't believe the Lord Jesus Christ does what He says He will do then there is no amount of reasoning from the bible that will help you. You will be stuck with your religion.

 

[DJ2]

I am pretty sure you have no clue what I believe, I am not calvanist, and am against their view of predestination. So you are sadly mistaken, again.

I am not calvanist, and am against their view of predestination

I never said you were a calvinist.

So what is your view on predestination?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I never said you were a calvinist.

So what is your view on predestination?

Rom 8: [FONT=&quot]29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. [/FONT]30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Eph 1:5 - [FONT=&quot]having [/FONT]predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

[FONT=&quot]Eph 1: 11 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]In Him also[/FONT] we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,

 

[Nehemiah6]

Works-salvationists believe that salvation (having been saved through faith) is a process and not a one time event, because they confuse justification with ongoing sanctification.

True. But they also reject justification and imputed righteousness, because those things are beyond human comprehension and must be either accepted by faith or rejected. Here is a part of the section on justification in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1991 Justification is at the same time the acceptance of God's righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ. Righteousness (or "justice") here means the rectitude of divine love. With justification, faith, hope, and charity are poured into our hearts, and obedience to the divine will is granted us.

Instead of saying what Scripture says -- justification is the imputation of Christ's righteousness to the sinner by God's grace -- we have the "acceptance of God's righteousness", which simply means that we accept that God is righteous. Then they call God's righteousness "justice", which is totally incorrect. And what exactly does "the rectitude of divine love mean"?

 

[Chester]

I can give you one word that shows once saved, always saved...

in:

G1722

ἐν
en
en
A primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), that is, a relation of rest (intermediate between G1519 and G1537); “in”, at, (up-) on, by, etc.: - about, after, against, + almost, X altogether, among, X as, at, before, between, (here-) by (+ all means), for (. . . sake of), + give self wholly to, (here-) in (-to, -wardly), X mightily, (because) of, (up-) on, [open-] ly, X outwardly, one, X quickly, X shortly, [speedi-] ly, X that, X there (-in, -on), through (-out), (un-) to(-ward), under, when, where (-with), while, with (-in). Often used in compounds, with substantially the same import; rarely with verbs of motion, and then not to indicate direction, except (elliptically) by a separate (and different) prep.


2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Huh? As before, I ask simply this, where does the Biblical text say clearly that once a person is saved he (she) is always saved?

 

[Chester]

This is not true. The rest of the bible is read and interpreted through the truth of eternal security. That if believers do not follow Gods plan for their lives, there is divine discipline,misery,reaping what we sow,loss of reward and rendering our services to ashes. But the gift of eternal life stands.

Eternal security ignores the false interpretation of loss of salvation,working for salvation and maintaining salvation. Eternal security does not ignore the rest of the Bible.

I asked at the beginning of this thread if the Biblical text actually states eternal security, or if it is a doctrine that comes from the overall teaching of Scripture.

I take it from your statement: "The rest of the bible is read and interpreted through the truth of eternal security"that you are saying that the doctrine of eternal security comes from the overall teaching of Scripture. Then from that overall teaching/understanding of scripture we need to interpret the Bible according to this truth.

Am I understanding correctly what you were trying to say here?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Huh? As before, I ask simply this, where does the Biblical text say clearly that once a person is saved he (she) is always saved?

You have been given so many places in scripture where it says this. Whether you agree with them or not is not the persons problem.

You can either agree with those passages, or you can interpret those passages a different way, But to continue to ask people who have given you passage after passage is not being sincere.

 

[Chester]

that is no assurance, there is no assurance you will continue to believe, you must not think Christ is very trustworthy and may not be worthy of your faith in the future

I am sorry if you don't think I think that I think Christ is trustworthy!

My testimony is still this: I believe in Christ and his work for me -- that is how I know I am saved!

 

[Chester]

There is no peace of God in the hearts of those who do not know that they are eternally saved from condemnation. Saved by the grace of God and not of their own merits. Forever passed from judgment unto eternal life with Christ.

Why do you strive against truth?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Agreed! I am eternally saved from condemnation by the grace of God, and not by own merits!

Why? Because I am believing in Jesus

 

[Chester]

You have been given so many places in scripture where it says this. Whether you agree with them or not is not the persons problem.

You can either agree with those passages, or you can interpret those passages a different way, But to continue to ask people who have given you passage after passage is not being sincere.

You still haven't gotten what the thread asks: I am not asking about how someone interprets a passage; and I am not disputing the fact that every passage needs to be interpreted.

I am asking if there is a verse that clearly states (not someone's interpretation of the verse) that once a person is saved, he (she) will always be saved.

Or, is eternal security a doctrine that is a general conclusion from a study of Scripture?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You still haven't gotten what the thread asks: I am not asking about how someone interprets a passage; and I am not disputing the fact that every passage needs to be interpreted.

I am asking if there is a verse that clearly states (not someone's interpretation of the verse) that once a person is saved, he (she) will always be saved.

Or, is eternal security a doctrine that is a general conclusion from a study of Scripture?

You Do understanding my point, It has been given to you You can not see it BECAUSE you do not interpret that way.

But hey, one more time. John 6.

WHoever believes in him will NEVER DIE, LIVE FOREVER, Will NEVER HUNGEER AND NEVER THIRST, Will Never BE LOST, will BE RESSURECTED BY HIM (vs be delivered to him) and HAS ETERNAL LIFE

so. Taken literally, there you have a passage where jesus gave you what you ask.

but you claim this is not true, So your the one making it an interpretation issue, Not me.

My point is you have been given what you ask, Why do you keep asking?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Agreed! I am eternally saved from condemnation by the grace of God, and not by own merits!

Why? Because I am believing in Jesus

Then according to what you just said, your not eternally saved, nor do you believe it, Because you have placed a condition on you being “eternally saved” which means you do not even believe you are eternally saved, You believe YOU MAY BE eternally saved. That is about as far as you can go.

 

[Mercy4u]

Agreed! I am eternally saved from condemnation by the grace of God, and not by own merits!

Why? Because I am believing in Jesus

Close, but not quite. Because you have believed. It isn't our present faith that saves us. The moment we believed we were saved and sealed.

Eph 1:13
New American Standard Bible
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

 

[Chester]

You Do understanding my point, It has been given to you You can not see it BECAUSE you do not interpret that way.

But hey, one more time. John 6.

WHoever believes in him will NEVER DIE, LIVE FOREVER, Will NEVER HUNGEER AND NEVER THIRST, Will Never BE LOST, will BE RESSURECTED BY HIM (vs be delivered to him) and HAS ETERNAL LIFE

so. Taken literally, there you have a passage where jesus gave you what you ask.

but you claim this is not true, So your the one making it an interpretation issue, Not me.

My point is you have been given what you ask, Why do you keep asking?

I guess I will just have to stop: I really don't get it:

This verse - John 6:35 - says exactly what I have been saying: When I believe in Jesus I never die, I live forever, I never hunger,etc,. and I have eternal life.

Yes, and amen! I agree with the verse 100% all the way!

But does the verse say clearly that once a person believes at a point in time, that he will always be believing? And if a person is not believing, the "whoever" at the beginning of the verse does not apply to him.

And you can define "eternal life" as something that God cannot, or should not, or will not take away from someone, but the Biblical text does not define eternal life that way.

 

[Chester]

Close, but not quite. Because you have believed. It isn't our present faith that saves us. The moment we believed we were saved and sealed.

Eph 1:13
New American Standard Bible
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Close, but not quite! Ephesians 1:13 says that after we heard and believed, we were sealed. It doesn't say we were "saved" at the moment we believed.

Having pointed that out, I do of course believe that I was "saved" at the moment in time that I first believed. But my present assurance and salvation is not based alone on the moment in time that I myself took the action to believe in Christ.