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T'was a time, Mr. Nehemiah, and still is; Where I declared, to the Kingdom of God, the Kingdom of Light, the kingdom of darkness, spirit of instead of Christ, "That I walk, where Angels fear to tread!" What I was, and still am doing, is Judging angels! (or messengers, message transferers, which INCLUDES "nerves!" biologically speaking). Oh yeah! A spiritual warrior, of the highest caliber, with 007 credentials (license to "kill"). Something, that one not born from above, is unable to do, as it requires the "Sword of the Spirit." Now a believer can quote bible verses, and copy and paste away, all day, every day, and deceive themselves into believing they are using the "sword of the Spirit", in these efforts, but they'd be falling WAY short, of ever realizing the Full Potential, of how effective this offensive weapon is!
Cuz, ya see, the enemies of the Kingdom of God, and Kingdom of Light, are "very adept", at coercion! Instilling fear, by ways used by "clubs", like "cosa nostra." By saying: "Oh! We won't hurt YOU!" "We'll get yer wife, yer kids, yer family, and friends!" Using these strong arm tactics, not only opens breaches in the "wall", it gives them the "bridges", that are required by them in their "crossing over!" Othertawise, they'd be forced to stay their places!
And, it's not they don't know their 70 weeks were up, some time ago! They KNOW! And will use very strong oppression/s, in their ensuring, the "believer" doesn't become cognizant of it either!
The part which is "scary", is that these forces (singly, but usually in co-ordination with one another), CAN, and, HAVE killed, in the past.
Tis, also my belief, and the premise, I work from, is like When God doled out to the tribes of Israel, the "land" that each tribe was to have as their inheritance. "EXCEPT the Levites!" "For, I AM THEIR inheritance!" Yep, boys and girls? It as simple, and, as HARD, as that!
Cuz, ya see, the enemies of the Kingdom of God, and Kingdom of Light, are "very adept", at coercion! Instilling fear, by ways used by "clubs", like "cosa nostra." By saying: "Oh! We won't hurt YOU!" "We'll get yer wife, yer kids, yer family, and friends!" Using these strong arm tactics, not only opens breaches in the "wall", it gives them the "bridges", that are required by them in their "crossing over!" Othertawise, they'd be forced to stay their places!
And, it's not they don't know their 70 weeks were up, some time ago! They KNOW! And will use very strong oppression/s, in their ensuring, the "believer" doesn't become cognizant of it either!
The part which is "scary", is that these forces (singly, but usually in co-ordination with one another), CAN, and, HAVE killed, in the past.
Tis, also my belief, and the premise, I work from, is like When God doled out to the tribes of Israel, the "land" that each tribe was to have as their inheritance. "EXCEPT the Levites!" "For, I AM THEIR inheritance!" Yep, boys and girls? It as simple, and, as HARD, as that!
So either the Bible is at fault, or you are in error. If no man is able, then God is simply mocking sinners (according to your theory) when they cannot even respond to Him. But since men are indeed able through (1) the POWER of the Gospel and (2) the POWER of the Holy Spirit, it means that you do not believe the Word of God at all. You will simply cling to your man-made theories about redemption.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost...Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. (Acts 2:37,38,41).
This is what God has revealed to us so that we will not be led astray with foolish notions. Sinner heard the Gospel, they were genuinely convicted ("pricked in their heart"), they heard the call to repentance, they responded to the Gospel by receiving the Word "gladly", and hence they were saved (having received the gift of the Holy Ghost) and baptized immediately.
So why don't you simply believe how God works through the Gospel, instead of clinging to untenable and unbiblical ideas about "inability". If inability were really an issue, here is exactly where we would have learned how inability became ability.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost...Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. (Acts 2:37,38,41).
This is what God has revealed to us so that we will not be led astray with foolish notions. Sinner heard the Gospel, they were genuinely convicted ("pricked in their heart"), they heard the call to repentance, they responded to the Gospel by receiving the Word "gladly", and hence they were saved (having received the gift of the Holy Ghost) and baptized immediately.
So why don't you simply believe how God works through the Gospel, instead of clinging to untenable and unbiblical ideas about "inability". If inability were really an issue, here is exactly where we would have learned how inability became ability.
You mean when it says, 'God exalted Him as a Prince and a Savior for the purpose of GIVING to Israel repentance and remission of sins? That sounds like GOD's work to me.
And they received His word when God gave them repentance and remission of sins. (Acts 5.31)
Because God gave them repentance.
Yes we see exactly how disability become ability. GOD GIVES REPENTANCE.
And they received His word when God gave them repentance and remission of sins. (Acts 5.31)
Because God gave them repentance.
Yes we see exactly how disability become ability. GOD GIVES REPENTANCE.
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Because you have misunderstood and misapplied this verse, you continue in the same vein and remain on the same track. So let us see what exactly is meant in Acts 5:31, and how it has nothing to do with your concept of God "giving" repentance.
On the face of it, and without comparing Scripture with Scripture, one would imagine that this verse means that ALL OF ISRAEL would repent because God had given every Jew repentance.
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. (Acts 5:31)
But verse 33 exposes the fallacy of your interpretation:
When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them. (Acts 5:33)
So the council (Sanhedrin) and the High Priest were prepared to murder the apostles instead of repenting of their sins and their unbelief. Now how could that be when -- according to your theory -- God granted repentance to ALL ISRAEL? Do you see the fallacy and foolishness of interpreting verse 31 as you have done in order to fit it to your theory?
So what does verse 31 really mean?
1. Repentance and remission of sins was to be preached to Israel -- BEGINNING AT JERUSALEM -- as an integral part of the Gospel (Luke 24:47): And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
2. Only those who obeyed the Gospel would be granted repentance and remission of sins and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (Acts 5:32):
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
3. Those of Israel who resisted the Gospel and resisted the Holy Spirit would be damned. Which means that all of Israel would NOT be granted repentance and remission of sins (Mk 16:16);
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
To clear up the fallacy, what verse 31 means is that all of Israel would have the opportunity to repent upon hearing the Gospel, and thus receive remission of sins. But it would have to be the sinners who repented, not some ephemeral and supernatural "gift" of repentance as claimed by the Calvinists, coming to some selected individuals and bypassing the majority.
On the face of it, and without comparing Scripture with Scripture, one would imagine that this verse means that ALL OF ISRAEL would repent because God had given every Jew repentance.
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. (Acts 5:31)
But verse 33 exposes the fallacy of your interpretation:
When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them. (Acts 5:33)
So the council (Sanhedrin) and the High Priest were prepared to murder the apostles instead of repenting of their sins and their unbelief. Now how could that be when -- according to your theory -- God granted repentance to ALL ISRAEL? Do you see the fallacy and foolishness of interpreting verse 31 as you have done in order to fit it to your theory?
So what does verse 31 really mean?
1. Repentance and remission of sins was to be preached to Israel -- BEGINNING AT JERUSALEM -- as an integral part of the Gospel (Luke 24:47): And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
2. Only those who obeyed the Gospel would be granted repentance and remission of sins and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (Acts 5:32):
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
3. Those of Israel who resisted the Gospel and resisted the Holy Spirit would be damned. Which means that all of Israel would NOT be granted repentance and remission of sins (Mk 16:16);
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
To clear up the fallacy, what verse 31 means is that all of Israel would have the opportunity to repent upon hearing the Gospel, and thus receive remission of sins. But it would have to be the sinners who repented, not some ephemeral and supernatural "gift" of repentance as claimed by the Calvinists, coming to some selected individuals and bypassing the majority.
God said that He wants all people to repent,come to the knowledge of the truth,and be saved.
Jesus is the light of the world that lights all people that are born in to this world.
The Spirit and bride say come,and anybody that wants salvation can have it.
Many are called but few are chosen,which God does the calling and choosing on earth.
No person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them,and no person can say Jesus is Lord,but by the Holy Ghost.
God knows the condition of the heart,and if the heart is right enough He will call them,and work with them to get them to the truth,but not all make it to that truth,which that truth is that they do not understand to abstain from sins by the Spirit,for when they realize that and abide by it they have walked through the door of truth.
Not many noble,not many mighty,not many wise are called,for there heart is not right enough to be called.
We did not choose God,but He chose us,for even though we have to choose salvation,we would of not gotten to the door of truth to choose it if God did not intervene in our life to get us to the door of truth when He called us,and no person is saved unless God works in their life first,and no person is saved unless God chooses them to be saved.
Those that are called God will work with them to get them to the door of truth,but some fall short,and some get to the door of truth but do not go through it,which it has to do with whether they hate sin,and want to abstain from sin,or hold unto sin,and deny the truth,or hold unto sin and think they are alright with God claiming to be a Christian.
They have a form of godliness,but they deny the power thereof,and never come to the truth,which it states it is because of their sins that they never come to the truth.
The Lord knows them that are His having this seal,that all people who name the name of Christ has to depart from iniquity.
Which Jesus said not all who call Him Lord is saved,because they did not do the will of the Father,and then states it is their iniquity why they cannot be saved.
The Bible says God is not mocked for whatever a person sows that shall they reap,and tells the saints not to be deceived by that.
Paul said awake to righteousness,and sin not,but not all have the knowledge of God,and he speaks that to their shame.
Many people claiming Christ have not walked through the door of truth hanging on to sin thinking they are alright with God,and say they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God.
But we sin because we want to sin,not because we cannot abstain from sin,and nobody is forcing us to sin,and it is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,so we can choose the good,and if a person hates sin,and does not want sin,by the Spirit they cannot abstain from sin,for a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh,for they have crucified the flesh with the lusts and affections,and show the ways of the Spirit,and God will not allow them to be tempted above what they are able,and will give them an escape from the temptation so they can bear it.
So there is no excuse.
When God calls a person and they get to the door of truth,then they have to make the choice,and go through the door,for God's kingdom is love,which going through the door is to abstain from sins by the Spirit,for it is sins that separate us from God.
If we do not have any choice in our salvation then God's kingdom is not true love,and would mean there is more love between humans than between God and people.
God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened,for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning,for it will surely come to pass with no hindrances.
The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,and the prophets blood shed from the foundation of the world,although they were future events.
God already had the plan to give mankind salvation before He laid down the foundation of the world,so it is the same as if the saints have salvation in the beginning,but it did not happen until God called them,and chose them on earth.
If God chose who would be saved,and not saved,in the beginning,and they have no choice in the matter then,
1.God's kingdom is not love.
2.They did not truly repent,and confess Christ,for it came from God,and not them.
3.People are being punished for not believing with no fault of their own,so why are they blamed.
4.All have sinned,and come short of the glory of God,and our righteousness is as filthy rags,and there is none that does good,no,not one,and what makes you to differ from another,and if you offend in the least of the law you have offended all,so why would God choose some to be saved,and some to not be saved,without a choice on their part if all are viewed the same.
5.God would of not created the earth,but would of cut out the middle man,for there would be no need for it.
If people have no choice concerning their salvation,God would of not created the earth,for He would of created them with no choice in a glorified body,for the result would be the same.
There would be no purpose for the earth,and God would not allow all the hurt,and suffering,and pain,and problems,that occur on earth,and people being punished that He did not choose,if there is no choice involved,for the result would be the same,and the position and thinking of the saint would be the same if God created them with a glorified body,and cut out the middle man.
There would be no purpose for the creation of the earth,but if we have a choice in the matter of salvation then there is a purpose for the earth.
God gives us a choice in our salvation,and said that He wants all people to repent,come to the knowledge of the truth,and be saved,so that should be enough for people to understand,and sort it out what the rest of the Bible is saying concerning the matter.
But it is not,for many people do not care,but that is how they want to hear it.They want to hear it according to they are elect,chose in the beginning,so they cannot fall,and cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,like the occultist likes to hear the Bible according to the occult,and Buddhism,and Hinduism,and other religions,like to hear it according to their religion,and many people in general that like to hear it according to how they like to hear it.
It is a fleshy interpretation,and not spiritual,for if they were spiritual after so many years of living for God they should of figured out the truth.
Jesus is the light of the world that lights all people that are born in to this world.
The Spirit and bride say come,and anybody that wants salvation can have it.
Many are called but few are chosen,which God does the calling and choosing on earth.
No person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them,and no person can say Jesus is Lord,but by the Holy Ghost.
God knows the condition of the heart,and if the heart is right enough He will call them,and work with them to get them to the truth,but not all make it to that truth,which that truth is that they do not understand to abstain from sins by the Spirit,for when they realize that and abide by it they have walked through the door of truth.
Not many noble,not many mighty,not many wise are called,for there heart is not right enough to be called.
We did not choose God,but He chose us,for even though we have to choose salvation,we would of not gotten to the door of truth to choose it if God did not intervene in our life to get us to the door of truth when He called us,and no person is saved unless God works in their life first,and no person is saved unless God chooses them to be saved.
Those that are called God will work with them to get them to the door of truth,but some fall short,and some get to the door of truth but do not go through it,which it has to do with whether they hate sin,and want to abstain from sin,or hold unto sin,and deny the truth,or hold unto sin and think they are alright with God claiming to be a Christian.
They have a form of godliness,but they deny the power thereof,and never come to the truth,which it states it is because of their sins that they never come to the truth.
The Lord knows them that are His having this seal,that all people who name the name of Christ has to depart from iniquity.
Which Jesus said not all who call Him Lord is saved,because they did not do the will of the Father,and then states it is their iniquity why they cannot be saved.
The Bible says God is not mocked for whatever a person sows that shall they reap,and tells the saints not to be deceived by that.
Paul said awake to righteousness,and sin not,but not all have the knowledge of God,and he speaks that to their shame.
Many people claiming Christ have not walked through the door of truth hanging on to sin thinking they are alright with God,and say they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God.
But we sin because we want to sin,not because we cannot abstain from sin,and nobody is forcing us to sin,and it is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,so we can choose the good,and if a person hates sin,and does not want sin,by the Spirit they cannot abstain from sin,for a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh,for they have crucified the flesh with the lusts and affections,and show the ways of the Spirit,and God will not allow them to be tempted above what they are able,and will give them an escape from the temptation so they can bear it.
So there is no excuse.
When God calls a person and they get to the door of truth,then they have to make the choice,and go through the door,for God's kingdom is love,which going through the door is to abstain from sins by the Spirit,for it is sins that separate us from God.
If we do not have any choice in our salvation then God's kingdom is not true love,and would mean there is more love between humans than between God and people.
God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened,for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning,for it will surely come to pass with no hindrances.
The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,and the prophets blood shed from the foundation of the world,although they were future events.
God already had the plan to give mankind salvation before He laid down the foundation of the world,so it is the same as if the saints have salvation in the beginning,but it did not happen until God called them,and chose them on earth.
If God chose who would be saved,and not saved,in the beginning,and they have no choice in the matter then,
1.God's kingdom is not love.
2.They did not truly repent,and confess Christ,for it came from God,and not them.
3.People are being punished for not believing with no fault of their own,so why are they blamed.
4.All have sinned,and come short of the glory of God,and our righteousness is as filthy rags,and there is none that does good,no,not one,and what makes you to differ from another,and if you offend in the least of the law you have offended all,so why would God choose some to be saved,and some to not be saved,without a choice on their part if all are viewed the same.
5.God would of not created the earth,but would of cut out the middle man,for there would be no need for it.
If people have no choice concerning their salvation,God would of not created the earth,for He would of created them with no choice in a glorified body,for the result would be the same.
There would be no purpose for the earth,and God would not allow all the hurt,and suffering,and pain,and problems,that occur on earth,and people being punished that He did not choose,if there is no choice involved,for the result would be the same,and the position and thinking of the saint would be the same if God created them with a glorified body,and cut out the middle man.
There would be no purpose for the creation of the earth,but if we have a choice in the matter of salvation then there is a purpose for the earth.
God gives us a choice in our salvation,and said that He wants all people to repent,come to the knowledge of the truth,and be saved,so that should be enough for people to understand,and sort it out what the rest of the Bible is saying concerning the matter.
But it is not,for many people do not care,but that is how they want to hear it.They want to hear it according to they are elect,chose in the beginning,so they cannot fall,and cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,like the occultist likes to hear the Bible according to the occult,and Buddhism,and Hinduism,and other religions,like to hear it according to their religion,and many people in general that like to hear it according to how they like to hear it.
It is a fleshy interpretation,and not spiritual,for if they were spiritual after so many years of living for God they should of figured out the truth.
Not at all. It means He gave repentance to whom of them He would.
Your interpretation is wrong. It means He gave repentance to whom of them He would.,
LOL How does that affect the issue?
you are controlled by your false interpretation. It does not say ALL of Irael
No I see you utter foolishness in failing to read what it said.
I can read clearly, 'He --- gave repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.' A direct gift, NOT an opportunity to repent,
As I expected of you, you ignore the clear meaning of the verse and give it a false interpretation of your own,
Your interpretation is wrong. It means He gave repentance to whom of them He would.,
LOL How does that affect the issue?
you are controlled by your false interpretation. It does not say ALL of Irael
No I see you utter foolishness in failing to read what it said.
I can read clearly, 'He --- gave repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.' A direct gift, NOT an opportunity to repent,
As I expected of you, you ignore the clear meaning of the verse and give it a false interpretation of your own,
I struggled with predestination for years, until I ran across the commentary I posted above. Just thought it might help someone else. It is referred to as Peligsnism because a man by that name was credited with being the first to introduce it. I do not believe in some of his other views but I think he nailed it on this subject because I believe God has given me enough discernment too recognize truth when I see it. Of course everyone is free to chose \
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I struggled with predestination for years, until I ran across the commentary I posted above. Just thought it might help someone else. It is referred to as Peligsnism because a man by that name was credited with being the first to introduce it. I do not believe in some of his other views but I think he nailed it on this subject because I believe God has given me enough discernment too recognize truth when I see it. Of course everyone is free to chose \/
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And you are not free to choose. You choose according to your own disposition,
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This is where you show an error in thinking. Without God no one would ever be saved. He grants faith, repentance and ability.
Yet you're placing what man does above this:
"If we cannot __________ while dead in sin, no one would ever be saved."
Guess what? You cannot.
Put whatever you want in the blank and it's erroneous. You'll never admit it in your pride, but the error in what you're saying is a glaring error.
I'll stick with Soli Deo Gloria. He did all of it.
Yet you're placing what man does above this:
"If we cannot __________ while dead in sin, no one would ever be saved."
Guess what? You cannot.
Put whatever you want in the blank and it's erroneous. You'll never admit it in your pride, but the error in what you're saying is a glaring error.
I'll stick with Soli Deo Gloria. He did all of it.
I agree with Paul that the created should not question the creator. But like He states in the same chapter
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Notice there is no mention of salvation in these verses.
Predestination to be saved or unsaved by definition is unrighteous judgement. Showing mercy or not showing mercy is Gods privilege.
God's mercy and judgement are both righteous and perfect. We don't understand it all but the God i worship is a God of Love and taking away free choice is not love. i agree that we can't question Gods judgement, but that doesn't mean that we have to accept that it is unfair.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
This is hard for me to explain because it seems to back up your theory but it also seems to contradict other Bible verses.
So ether your theory is wrong or the other Bible verses are wrong.
I believe Paul is stating the sovereignty of God and the fact that we shouldn't question His jugdement because we trust His judgement. but if you read the whole chapter and the surrounding context you will see a strong emphasis on the nation of Israel and the gentiles, How God choose to show mercy on Israel and not the gentiles and how God has reached out to the gentiles.
Because i do not see the begining or the end as a human i need to trust that God does and knowing that God is fair, true and just makes my faith in Him much easier. If God only loves some of us and forces some to be saved and others to be lost it makes it hard to have a trusting relationship with Him because i can't choose to freely trust Him.
If God chooses to save some and send others to hell with out a choice i can not accept this as righteous judgement.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Notice there is no mention of salvation in these verses.
Predestination to be saved or unsaved by definition is unrighteous judgement. Showing mercy or not showing mercy is Gods privilege.
God's mercy and judgement are both righteous and perfect. We don't understand it all but the God i worship is a God of Love and taking away free choice is not love. i agree that we can't question Gods judgement, but that doesn't mean that we have to accept that it is unfair.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
This is hard for me to explain because it seems to back up your theory but it also seems to contradict other Bible verses.
So ether your theory is wrong or the other Bible verses are wrong.
I believe Paul is stating the sovereignty of God and the fact that we shouldn't question His jugdement because we trust His judgement. but if you read the whole chapter and the surrounding context you will see a strong emphasis on the nation of Israel and the gentiles, How God choose to show mercy on Israel and not the gentiles and how God has reached out to the gentiles.
Because i do not see the begining or the end as a human i need to trust that God does and knowing that God is fair, true and just makes my faith in Him much easier. If God only loves some of us and forces some to be saved and others to be lost it makes it hard to have a trusting relationship with Him because i can't choose to freely trust Him.
If God chooses to save some and send others to hell with out a choice i can not accept this as righteous judgement.
God is a just judge, and God is angry with the wicked every day. (Psalms 7:11 NKJV)
He judges the world with righteousness; he judges the peoples with equity. (Psalm 9:8 NRSV)
And I heard the altar respond, "Yes, O Lord God, the Almighty, your judgments are true and just!" (Revelation 16:7 NRSV)
If God loves the whole world why doesn't He predestine all to be saved?
If Jesus is holding out His hand to the world it would not be fair for God to only allow some to take it and be saved.
God is all powerful but He is also fair and just and loving.
If God loves the whole world why doesn't He predestine all to be saved?
If Jesus is holding out His hand to the world it would not be fair for God to only allow some to take it and be saved.
God is all powerful but He is also fair and just and loving.