predestination?

[eternally-gratefull]

This is where you show an error in thinking. Without God no one would ever be saved. He grants faith, repentance and ability.

Yet you're placing what man does above this:

"If we cannot __________ while dead in sin, no one would ever be saved."

Guess what? You cannot.

Put whatever you want in the blank and it's erroneous. You'll never admit it in your pride, but the error in what you're saying is a glaring error.

I'll stick with Soli Deo Gloria. He did all of it.

Thats where you err. The HS acts as a human spirit. And helps me (all) to understand my plight against God, This is called god consciousness. It is at this point, I can understand, and decide to repent and have faith, or reject.

It is still up to me.

You have people alive while still in sin. Thats a huge mistake.

 

[TMS]

To me total depraity means totally guilty, totally unable to save self. Under total reliability to find christ and trust him, ie, the purpose of the law. Which proves my total guilt or depravity.

The law points out our sins and depravity, and then we have a choice, do we ask for Jesus to save us or not. ????

 

[TMS]

Imparted righteousness is the gift that Jesus gives to allow us to choose the righteousness ways. It is a gift and leads to sanctification. Imputed righteousness is the instant forgiveness that is called justification. Both are from Jesus and all glory is His but we still have to choose to accept or reject the gift.

 

[preacher4truth]

Thats where you err.

LOL!!!!!!!! Says the one where without himself he couldn't be saved! LOL!!!

It is without God none would ever be saved. You put "you" in where "God" is. It is totally contrary to 1 Corinthians 1:26-31.

The HS acts as a human spirit.

Wow. Book chapter and verse for that? No, that is simply heresy. But carry on, chap, I'm sure it gets worse:

And helps me (all) to understand my plight against God, This is called god consciousness.

You're just filled with mysticism, aren't you? God doesn't help "all" that's just your errant gospel attempting to get "God off the hook." You're the Romans 9:20 man in the flesh in 2017 and think he isn't fair if he doesn't succumb to your ideology.

Now, book chapter and verse for your last 2 comments? I want to see how you twist Scripture to support the above nonsense.

It is at this point, I can understand, and decide to repent and have faith, or reject.

It is still up to me.

Your story of how this takes place is intriguing. Not biblical, but intriguing. And now to top off the foolishness you're just going to flat out lie about me below:

You have people alive while still in sin. Thats a huge mistake.

Actually it is you who has the person alive while still in sin. You're the one who said you repented while dead in sin, and, without you (and others) doing _____ no one could ever be saved.

Remember that? I do. So do others who are honest and have seen your teachings elsewhere. You believe you were able.

You show a profound ignorance of the Gospel and soteriology. I know, spare me, you've studied for years. Sad thing is you've learned not much nor has your understanding advanced to being Biblical and exegetical. Your belief is purely ideological and philosophical, rejecting exposition and exegesis.

Get your last word in, when you start lying on top of your heresy, well, we're done. Not going to debate with someone who pulls this nonsense.

Everyone here knows that Calvinists believe that no person is able, and that there is no way we hold a person alive while dead and in sin.

 

[SovereignGrace]

The HS acts as a human spirit.

Got a verse for this heretical nonsense? You guys just keep drifting further and further from the safe harbor of scriptures.

It is still up to me.

Suuuuuurrrrreeee!!

You have people alive while still in sin. Thats a huge mistake.

Uh, no. We aver that man is spiritually dead and can not respond until after God quickens the dead to life. You have the lost doing something and then being saved. Its like Lazarus was dead until he stepped out of the tomb.

 

[SovereignGrace]

The HS acts as a human spirit.

and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.[Romans 1:23]


This is the perfect picture of you and those of your ilk. You do everything in your power to emasculate God. Sad. Really, really, REALLY, sad. Sad indeed.

 

[preacher4truth]

This is hard for me to explain because it seems to back up your theory but it also seems to contradict other Bible verses. So ether your theory is wrong or the other Bible verses are wrong.

Your interpretation of the other Bible verses are then obviously wrong. Keep studying. Employ 2 Timothy 2:15. Use good bible teachers to help you rectify these passages you struggle with.

Because i do not see the begining or the end as a human i need to trust that God does and knowing that God is fair, true and just makes my faith in Him much easier. If God only loves some of us and forces some to be saved and others to be lost it makes it hard to have a trusting relationship with Him because i can't choose to freely trust Him.

God forces others to be lost and others to be saved? You cannot come to God unless He grants it. So, you will only trust God if he let's you do what you want? Wow. OK... IOW, accommodate me God, then I can "trust" you.

If God chooses to save some and send others to hell

They are already heading there on their own.

with out a choice i can not accept this as righteous judgement.

Which would make you yet another Romans 9:20 man, calling God unfair.

God is a just judge, and God is angry with the wicked every day. (Psalms 7:11 NKJV) He judges the world with righteousness; he judges the peoples with equity. (Psalm 9:8 NRSV) And I heard the altar respond, "Yes, O Lord God, the Almighty, your judgments are true and just!" (Revelation 16:7 NRSV)

Great passages. It shows in all this God is just to judge how he sees fit.

If God loves the whole world why doesn't He predestine all to be saved? If Jesus is holding out His hand to the world it would not be fair for God to only allow some to take it and be saved. God is all powerful but He is also fair and just and loving.

Christ died for his people. And once again you're saying God isn't fair unless he does things your way.

​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

LOL!!!!!!!! Says the one where without himself he couldn't be saved! LOL!!!

It is without God none would ever be saved. You put "you" in where "God" is. It is totally contrary to 1 Corinthians 1:26-31.

The HS will convict the world of sin righteousness and judgment, This is when the HS brings everyone to God consciousness. As Paul said in romans 1. The world already knows that they are rightly judged because of sin, This is the HS bringing that knowledge

We know it is unbelievers because Jesus said they di nt believe in him, We know it is also about Jesus because he goes to the father and we do not see him, jesus is telling the disciples he must go dso the HS can repair the world to hear their message.

as for 1 cor.. It goes to the truth,the message of the cross is foolishness. Thats why the HS has to convict the world and prepair the message.

Wow. Book chapter and verse for that? No, that is simply heresy. But carry on, chap, I'm sure it gets worse:

Heresy? Wow man, Your just as bad as the person who said he prayed you would see truth.

as for scripture. See above.

You're just filled with mysticism, aren't you? God doesn't help "all" that's just your errant gospel attempting to get "God off the hook." You're the Romans 9:20 man in the flesh in 2017 and think he isn't fair if he doesn't succumb to your ideology.

Now, book chapter and verse for your last 2 comments? I want to see how you twist Scripture to support the above nonsense.

Non responsive, can you ever respond to people without attacking them or belittling them? To think I just tried to stand up for you as my brother. Maybe I made a mistake?

As for Rom 9: 20, it references Is 29, where God says he will do a great thing in Jerusalem. And although Israel will rebell, and yet God wil do a mighty works so when Jacob sees his mighty work, they will praise his holy name

Yeah, Talk about talking scripture out of context. I suggest you to to the thing Paul quoted to find context. Roman 9 is about God and Isreal (did God make a mistake). Not about God predesting one kid to heaven (Jacob) and one kid to hell (edom) before they were even born.

Your story of how this takes place is intriguing. Not biblical, but intriguing. And now to top off the foolishness you're just going to flat out lie about me below:

As I said, All men made free will choices. Noah chose to build an ark, Abraham chose to leave his family, Moses chose to go back to Egypt to be used by God, Daniel chose to follow his fathers will.

I chose to say Yes to jesus

All of these people (including me) could have said no.

Actually it is you who has the person alive while still in sin.

See your wrong, I do not have anyone alive UNTIL they have been justified of sin first. Your thge one who has one alive before their sin is forgiven.

Nice try..

You're the one who said you repented while dead in sin, and, without you (and others) doing _____ no one could ever be saved.

Remember that? I do. So do others who are honest and have seen your teachings elsewhere. You believe you were able.

Yet I have bible to back me, We are saved, Justifed by faith, No one can have faith unless they repent. So if we are saved, justified (declaired innocent of all wrongdoing, or declaired righteous) by faith, I must have repented and called out on the name of the lord to save while I was still dead.

Again, Nice try,

You show a profound ignorance of the Gospel and soteriology. I know, spare me, you've studied for years. Sad thing is you've learned not much nor has your understanding advanced to being Biblical and exegetical. Your belief is purely ideological and philosophical, rejecting exposition and exegesis.

Get your last word in, when you start lying on top of your heresy, well, we're done. Not going to debate with someone who pulls this nonsense.

Everyone here knows that Calvinists believe that no person is able, and that there is no way we hold a person alive while dead and in sin.

, so again, all you can do is attack me, And you wonder why someone said earlier most calvanists... You know not e4ven worth it.

You have a person made alive BEFORE they repent, which means they are ALIVE BEFORE they have faith, which means they must be BORN AGAIN before they are JUSTIFIED.

ie, they are born again in sin, then forgiven AFTER they are born again.

Nice try

edit, I hope everyone saw that I tried to have a peaceful conversation. But as usual, when it comes to these conversations, some people take it personal and come attacking. Which is sad.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Got a verse for this heretical nonsense? You guys just keep drifting further and further from the safe harbor of scriptures.




Suuuuuurrrrreeee!!



Uh, no. We aver that man is spiritually dead and can not respond until after God quickens the dead to life. You have the lost doing something and then being saved. Its like Lazarus was dead until he stepped out of the tomb.

Nice try, Your buddy ust attacked me saying one must be made alive BEFORE they repent. Which means they are made alive BEFORE they are justified.

I know I know. You think it happens instantaneously. Which is sad, because it makes your belief even less believable.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.[Romans 1:23]


This is the perfect picture of you and those of your ilk. You do everything in your power to emasculate God. Sad. Really, really, REALLY, sad. Sad indeed.

Emasculate God

Wow man can you people even have a clean discussion without having to tear people down. If your so weak in your faith you think you need to tear people apart that is sad.

I proved my point with scripture. I did not have to attack you, But if you want me to act like you, just continue. I can play with the best of them. Although it may totally destroy any friendship we may have, band just show the world how believers are nit united. But are torn apart and have to attack each other over non essential doctrines.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Heresy? Wow man, Your just as bad as the person who said he prayed you would see truth.

as for scripture. See above.

Lullz. You don't know about God, for if you did, you would not have typed, "The HS acts as a human spirit." I am not saying you're not saved, but for you to type that, shows me the time you've spent studying was a lost cause.

I am copying and pasting one of preacher4truth's sigs...

"Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards." - Charles Spurgeon

 

[SovereignGrace]

Nice try, Your buddy ust attacked me saying one must be made alive BEFORE they repent. Which means they are made alive BEFORE they are justified.

I know I know. You think it happens instantaneously. Which is sad, because it makes your belief even less believable.

No, that's not it. We are made alive and repent at the same time. One is not justified and then made alive. One is not alive and then justified. One is made alive and justified at the same time. That's what we reformed folk believe.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Emasculate God

Wow man can you people even have a clean discussion without having to tear people down. If your so weak in your faith you think you need to tear people apart that is sad.

I proved my point with scripture. I did not have to attack you, But if you want me to act like you, just continue. I can play with the best of them. Although it may totally destroy any friendship we may have, band just show the world how believers are nit united. But are torn apart and have to attack each other over non essential doctrines.

When someone types "The HS acts as a human spirit", they need called to the carpet. You and your ilk continually attempt to emasculate God. I am not attacking you, but your BELIEF that "The HS acts as a human spirit." That's the epitome of heresy. It can not be supported by scripture.

 

[UnderGrace]

I read no where in this passage that describes total depravity, it says death passed to all men, not total depravity.

Total depravity wrongly asserts that man's will is completely corrupted and therefore not functional.

God told Cain that sin was knocking at the door and that he should not to allow it to rule over him, least it become his master ( Genesis 4:6-7).
God did not deal with Cain as if he were totally depraved, God instructed Cain to rule over this sin that was knocking at the door.

You know Valiant, if the secular world accepted this notion of total depravity,

it could be argued in a court of law that a person can not be held accountable/responsible for their sin/crime, like the insanity plea.

Now there is a scary thought.

Slave to sin does not mean we are totally depraved, that is additional meaning attached to those words.

The Word of God teaches that God created man with the ability to reason, choose, and receive Truth
James 1:21

It is your fault you are totally depraved (affected with sin in every part of your being) as you inherited it from the father of mankind (Rom 5.12 on)..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When someone types "The HS acts as a human spirit", they need called to the carpet. You and your ilk continually attempt to emasculate God. I am not attacking you, but your BELIEF that "The HS acts as a human spirit." That's the epitome of heresy. It can not be supported by scripture.

Lol.. dude, How can the world repent unless the HS acts as a human spirit? How can the HS teach unless he acts as a human spirit?

What your doing is attacking me because you have nothing. You may hate my believe, thats fine, I HATE YOUR BELIEF ALSO.

So are we going to discuss this like men, and give our reasons, (including scripture. Which I gave) or sit here and attack each other?

 

[preacher4truth]

Lullz. You don't know about God, for if you did, you would not have typed, "The HS acts as a human spirit." I am not saying you're not saved, but for you to type that, shows me the time you've spent studying was a lost cause.

I am copying and pasting one of preacher4truth's sigs...

"Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards." - Charles Spurgeon

Yep a complete waste of alleged and unsubstantiated "study." I'd ask what he's read last but Google theologians always find an answer quick like.

I'm amazed how he is now trying to spin things to clean up his messy theology. He says he repented while dead in sin and if he and others didn't perform this miraculous act no one could be saved. Now he's trying hard to say he was made alive. Too. While still dead. Or something.

Not only that but how he has the Spirit of God acting as a human spirit. Of course no Scripture supports ANY of this or the above.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, that's not it. We are made alive and repent at the same time. One is not justified and then made alive. One is not alive and then justified. One is made alive and justified at the same time. That's what we reformed folk believe.

show me that in scriptuture?

The bible says we

1. REPENT
2. Call out on the name of the lord to be saved
3. By faith, are justified freely.


You will not find, that God makes us alive, and at that point, we repent, have faith and call out on the name of the lord.

You find the opposite, You find the word tell us to repent, and out of this repentance, we call out to God.

Again, Those wh0o believe are not condemned, those who do not believe are condemned already because they do not believe.

As Jesus aid, it is the will of the father that all who believer are made alive, given eternal life will never die and will be ressurected.

he did not say I chose, and when I allow you to. You repent, and you believe, he gives a command, DO not eat the food which perishes, but the food which endures forever.

 

[preacher4truth]

Lol.. dude, How can the world repent unless the HS acts as a human spirit? How can the HS teach unless he acts as a human spirit?

What your doing is attacking me because you have nothing.

...and he continues to propagate his heresy. Unreal!

 

[UnderGrace]

EG,

I am not understanding what you mean by the Holy Spirit acts as a human spirit?

Lol.. dude, How can the world repent unless the HS acts as a human spirit? How can the HS teach unless he acts as a human spirit?

What your doing is attacking me because you have nothing. You may hate my believe, thats fine, I HATE YOUR BELIEF ALSO.

So are we going to discuss this like men, and give our reasons, (including scripture. Which I gave) or sit here and attack each other?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yep a complete waste of alleged and unsubstantiated "study." I'd ask what he's read last but Google theologians always find an answer quick like.

I'm amazed how he is now trying to spin things to clean up his messy theology. He says he repented while dead in sin and if he and others didn't perform this miraculous act no one could be saved. Now he's trying hard to say he was made alive. Too. While still dead. Or something.

Not only that but how he has the Spirit of God acting as a human spirit. Of course no Scripture supports ANY of this or the above.

Lol.. Give it up dude, Your hurtling yourself because your angry, your not making sense.

I did not say I was made alive while dead in sin, You did

I said I was made alive BECAUSE I was justified (forgiven of all sin) and that was BECAUSE I chose to stop trusting myself and trust God.

Your the one who said you were made alive BEFORE you repented (even if it is a split second before. It is still BEFORE.)

The HS convicts the world of sin righteousness and judgement, It is he who does the washing, it is he who does the renewing, it is he who teaches all things.

Laugh all you want, I have scripture. Attack me all you want, I still have scripture.