Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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i guess they needed a better teacher like the ones we have of this age.
It seems you wish to disagree without coming right out and saying it. But you cannot, can you? Because the original twelve apostles were largely clueless after all their years of walking and talking with the pre-crucified Christ. Just admit it :)
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
We do have something they did not have........the completed word of God.....just saying!
i would rather be taught by Jesus. not saying your wrong but i never been a fan of the idea that we know better than the 12 trained by Jesus.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
This is neither philosophy nor theology -- it's mere evidence. Just read the New Testament and you'll see the difference: Jesus commanded obedience to the Law whereas Paul preached salvation by grace.

Ephesians 3:2

2Surely you have heard about the administration of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.7I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power.8Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence. 13I ask you, therefore, not to be discouraged because of my sufferings for you, which are your glory.

i dont think your getting what im saying. what would you do if some guy came up to you, told you he had personal revelation from Jesus, and its different than what Jesus taught. anyone can claim to have personal revelation.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
463
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i dont think your getting what im saying. what would you do if some guy came up to you, told you he had personal revelation from Jesus, and its different than what Jesus taught. anyone can claim to have personal revelation.
Do you doubt what is in scriptures written by Paul?

I don't. I believe all scripture is God-breathed, whether the words were written by Moses, David, Solomon, Matthew, Paul, or any of the other writers.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
i dont think your getting what im saying. what would you do if some guy came up to you, told you he had personal revelation from Jesus, and its different than what Jesus taught. anyone can claim to have personal revelation.
Well, you would be in a predicament.

Unless that revelation were part of scripture. Then you would have to reconcile the revelation with what the Lord Jesus taught and find out why YOU THINK its different than what He taught.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
463
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Do you doubt what is in scriptures written by Paul?

I don't. I believe all scripture is God-breathed, whether the words were written by Moses, David, Solomon, Matthew, Paul, or any of the other writers.
Also, Jaybird, here is what Peter, one of the original 12 who were with Jesus during his entire ministry, had to say about Paul's writings:

2 Pet 3:
15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

It seems Peter believed what Paul wrote.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,379
2,452
113
If you google Paul false apostle you'll get hundreds of thousands of results. Of course, not all results contain opinions against Paul, but I estimate that at least half of them state that he departed from the true gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

There are also those who don't go to the extreme of calling Paul a false apostle, but regard him as "not completely reliable".

Is there any reason for us to think that Paul's authority is questionable?

I wouldn't worry about this,
I just googled "Marcelo is an alien" and got 576,000 results.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
463
83
I wouldn't worry about this,
I just googled "Marcelo is an alien" and got 576,000 results.
I just googled "maxwel is an alien" and it broke the internet.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,052
26,160
113
"Maxwel is an alien" only garnered about 1,510,000 results :D

Obviously, Marcelo is a more popular alien than Maxwel is :)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,052
26,160
113
I just googled "maxwel is an alien" and it broke the internet.
Oy, maybe that is why I did not get as many results :eek:

The conclusion drawn from the results must be scuttled, then :p:D
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
463
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I got About 1,790,000 results (0.41 seconds) :eek:
Actually, maxwel was exactly right. I just googled "marcelo is an alien" (without the quotes) and got:
About 576,000 results (0.43 seconds)
If you google "marcelo is an alien" with the quotes, you get three results, and two of them are links to posts just made in this thread.

Google is getting amazingly quick at indexing things.
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
2,359
859
113
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i dont think your getting what im saying. what would you do if some guy came up to you, told you he had personal revelation from Jesus, and its different than what Jesus taught. anyone can claim to have personal revelation.
Of course I would ignore it!

But the revelation received by Paul from the risen Jesus is different -- it became Scripture.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,052
26,160
113
Actually, maxwel was exactly right. I just googled "marcelo is an alien" (without the quotes) and got:

If you google "marcelo is an alien" with the quotes, you get three results, and two of them are links to posts just made in this thread.

Google is getting amazingly quick at indexing things.
I did as you said (no quotation marks), and still got about 1,790,000 results in 0.30 seconds.

With apologies to Marcelo :eek:
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
It seems you wish to disagree without coming right out and saying it. But you cannot, can you? Because the original twelve apostles were largely clueless after all their years of walking and talking with the pre-crucified Christ. Just admit it :)
IMO we are the ones that are clueless and could learn something from them. if the movement of Christianity only gets better as the years go by then we should all be walking on water by now, i dont see that, i see lots of diversity, lots of judgment on each other, and the biggest accusers are always the ones with the biggest plank in their eye.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,052
26,160
113
"Magenta is an alien" gets over 11 million results. I win :D
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,052
26,160
113
IMO we are the ones that are clueless and could learn something from them. if the movement of Christianity only gets better as the years go by then we should all be walking on water by now, i dont see that, i see lots of diversity, lots of judgment on each other, and the biggest accusers are always the ones with the biggest plank in their eye.
It seems you still do not want to admit that the original twelve apostles were largely clueless previous to the resurrection of Jesus Christ, when their eyes were finally more fully opened, and they underwent major transformations. Jesus' two brothers, too, both of whom went on to write what is now accepted in the canon of Scripture. Do you honestly think the apostles always got along? There were many factions within Judaism, too, and there still are.
 

Embankment

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
693
190
43
This is neither philosophy nor theology -- it's mere evidence. Just read the New Testament and you'll see the difference: Jesus commanded obedience to the Law whereas Paul preached salvation by grace.

Ephesians 3:2

2Surely you have heard about the administration of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.7I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power.8Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence. 13I ask you, therefore, not to be discouraged because of my sufferings for you, which are your glory.

Does the death and reserection not mean anything to you? The Bible is very very clear about how that was the end of the old covenant and the start of the new......