Calvinists: The Just Shall Live BEFORE Having Faith

[preacher4truth]

Yes, you are. That's why you Calvinists keep using the physically dead person illustration.

No, we're not, you are the one saying the lost cannot do anything. We disagree with you about the anything part, and limit this to the spiritual part of salvation. It's not my fault you don't think about what you type, and then post unbiblical error.

Of course you take out the Scriptural portion that exposes your error then post only a portion of my response. Hey, that's exactly how you treat Scripture too!

A spiritually dead person is unable to do anything concerning his salvation. This is biblical. You say they are, but you're not a biblical person.

 

[preacher4truth]

You changed my quote.

Yep.

You are misinterpreting the Scriptures.

Nope, I only quoted it which exposes your errors.

If man were absolutely spiritually dead you wouldn't see this:

Abel also brought a gift—the best portions of the firstborn lambs from his flock. The Lord accepted Abel and his gift,
Genesis 4:4 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/gen.4.4.NLT

He was regenerate, that is why he did this. In your Finney gospel you have him saving himself by his works, that is what you see in the text, a dead man saving himself by doing something. lolzzzzz...

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

How could I be saved if I did not have faith?



Yes, I had mental agreement, not trust. I believed in God, but I did not yet trust him or understand what I needed to be saved.



No


I can not understand how you can not grasp it. I am not saying things which are hard. I am stating that I can believe in God and not trust him.

Just because I believe in God does not mean I believe I will live forever. Or that I will think I need saved, I can believe in God and still think I need to save myself. Like the jews. And add works to the gospel.. Where is my faith there? In my works, or in God?

So I will ask again. You and all those hundreds you have met who did not have faith for many years of studying, who you say believed but did not have faith, were they saved? Because you say they had no faith for years but only belief, and it is through faith we are saved.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

No, we're not, you are the one saying the lost cannot do anything. We disagree with you about the anything part, and limit this to the spiritual part of salvation. It's not my fault you don't think about what you type, and then post unbiblical error.

Of course you take out the Scriptural portion that exposes your error then post only a portion of my response. Hey, that's exactly how you treat Scripture too!

A spiritually dead person is unable to do anything concerning his salvation. This is biblical. You say they are, but you're not a biblical person.

You are misinterpreting those verses you posted because none of them say man is absolutely spiritually dead. I have shown you from the OT only 4 examples of people who were not absolutely spiritually dead and you ignored them.

 

[preacher4truth]

You are misinterpreting those verses you posted because none of them say man is absolutely spiritually dead. I have shown you from the OT only 4 examples of people who were not absolutely spiritually dead and you ignored them.

You've shown nothing and reject the words of Christ showing man is unable. All you do is pit Scripture against Scripture.

Jesus shows lost man is unable. You disagree. With Jesus.

Wonder who would be correct here, Jesus, or you?

 

[preacher4truth]

Anyhow, have fun being trolled here you all, lolzzz...

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Yep.



Nope, I only quoted it which exposes your errors.



He was regenerate, that is why he did this. In your Finney gospel you have him saving himself by his works, that is what you see in the text, a dead man saving himself by doing something. lolzzzzz...

The Scriptures never say that. You are making Christ's death unnecessary If OT people were already regenerated.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world. Its difficult for the human mind.

 

[preacher4truth]

The Scriptures never say that. You are making Christ's death unnecessary If OT people were already regenerated.

Oh, I'm making his death unnecessary, I see!

You have no clue what you're talking about, OT saints were also born from above, salvation has always been by grace and 100% of God. Jesus rebuked the teacher of Israel for not knowing this, John 3 showing that OT saints were saved. Does this mean Jesus also taught his death was unnecessary?

Jesus death, burial, resurrection also applied salvifically to OT saints, though it had not taken place in time as of yet.

You really need to get some help with your misunderstanding of Bible. There are many free resources available, and most likely a biblical church in your area to help you on your path. You're of the many who know what Scripture says, just not what Scripture means.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

You've shown nothing and reject the words of Christ showing man is unable. All you do is pit Scripture against Scripture.

Jesus shows lost man is unable. You disagree. With Jesus.

Wonder who would be correct here, Jesus, or you?

No. I reject your putting words into Jesus mouth. Jesus never said man has to be spiritually animated like a robot.

 

[John146]

God is omniscient, He knew they were going to repent before he sent Jonah, He knew they would repent before they repented. God said the penalty of sin is death, If we do not repent, we will die also.

of Course, God also knows who will repent. They do not surprise him, He knew it from before time, And he chose to save them based on this foreknowledge.

If God declared something to happen and it didn't take place, God is either a liar or He changed His mind. Which is it? There is no third option. Why can't we take Scripture at face value?

 

[preacher4truth]

No. I reject your putting words into Jesus mouth.

Never happened.

Jesus never said man has to be spiritually animated like a robot.

"And he has quickened you who were dead..."

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Oh, I'm making his death unnecessary, I see!

You have no clue what you're talking about, OT saints were also born from above, salvation has always been by grace and 100% of God. Jesus rebuked the teacher of Israel for not knowing this, John 3 showing that OT saints were saved. Does this mean Jesus also taught his death was unnecessary?

Jesus death, burial, resurrection also applied salvifically to OT saints, though it had not taken place in time as of yet.

You really need to get some help with your misunderstanding of Bible. There are many free resources available, and most likely a biblical church in your area to help you on your path. You're of the many who know what Scripture says, just not what Scripture means.

Jesus never said OT people were born again. There you go putting words into Jesus' mouth again.

 

[PennEd]

Jesus never said OT people were born again. There you go putting words into Jesus' mouth again.

Job, " I KNOW my redeemer LIVES!"

Not will some day live. I think it's fair to say OT redeemed are saved by believing in Christ, same as us.

 

[preacher4truth]

Jesus never said OT people were born again. There you go putting words into Jesus' mouth again.

He most certainly alluded to this fact. People in the OT were saved, born from above, and Nicodemus should have know this fact, John 3:10 &c.

One flaw that exposes people like you is you say OT saints weren't saved, then misquote Joshua 24:15 as a gospel invitation to them to be saved. LOL!!!!!!!!!

Anyhow, it appears you should change your moniker to DevotiontoPelagius.

 

[John146]

faith=trust
belief = mental agreement, with no trust.

ie, I believe jesus was a man, he died on the cross, and was raised,

does not mean i trust him, I may trust my works..

I see trust and belief as the same thing in Scripture.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 

[preacher4truth]

Another glaring error and inconsistency of DevotiontoBible is this:

He is using Abel to prove he was saved. Then he says there are none in the OT who were saved.

Um...

See the problem?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Another glaring error and inconsistency of DevotiontoBible is this:

He is using Abel to prove he was saved. Then he says there are none in the OT who were saved.

Um...

See the problem?

The problems are legion. You and SG were right that he wants to teach when he has not yet learned. He's all over the place, zigging and zagging and contradicting his own self at every turn. But he will settle down, I'm sure of it!

 

[preacher4truth]

The problems are legion. You and SG were right that he wants to teach when he has not yet learned. He's all over the place, zigging and zagging and contradicting his own self at every turn. But he will settle down, I'm sure of it!

I hope he does settle down, you have more faith in that happening than me! I am "O me of little faith" concerning that!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Anyhow, have fun being trolled here you all, lolzzz...

I don't think he's trolling. He just seems...like a small boy imitating his father at the breakfast table, pretending he's reading the newspaper. That's what he is like in spirit to me. I hope he stays and grows. I'm fond of him like a little brother.