Calvinists: The Just Shall Live BEFORE Having Faith
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D
Oh, I do get AG and CC aren't fond of Calvinism. BUT, Devo says he was trained in AG, and goes to CC, and yet he doesn't even understand what he was trained in. Neither teach the crap he's laying down as "fact." He's got his own very-special beliefs that absolutely no other denom or nom have.
He's saying he was trained in something while proving even that training didn't stick with him.
He's saying he was trained in something while proving even that training didn't stick with him.
E
Actually I did answer, and he agreed with me.
I answered this also. Although I do nto think he agreed, nor do I expect you to.
God can not trust himself for me, I have to trust him myself. He gave me the faith because he gave me the tools to have faith, not because he gave me his faith,
Your actually walking into johns view that jesus faith was imputed to us (it sounds the same)
Again, The tax collector. While dead, was brought to repentance and God on his knees and called out for God to shew mercy to him a sinner.
The Pharisee, also dead, Praised his own works, and praised God he was nto like the tax collector. Showing he had faith also. Only nbot in God, but in his own works.
We all have faith, what counts is what that faith is in.
is it in the word, The savior. The HS, and the promises based not he cross.
or is it in self (unbelief)
he who believes is condemned, he who does not believe is condemned already.
D
We're agreeing on that first sentence.
If I do not have faith, I am not saved!
Agreement!
Time to hear the angels in heaven singing alleluia just because you and I actually agree! lol
BUT, why does it matter to you that it's faith then saved, instead of saved then faith? Instantaneous? Package deal? Photo-finish? (One right after the other.) Whichever way you want it.
Out of all those choices, why does it matter to you which came first -- salvation or faith, if they come at the same time?
I know why it matters to me. (Because God is the one who does it all. It had absolutely nothing to do with my choices, my deserving it, my value, or even the Eagles are going to the Super Bowl. It is ALL God!) Why does it matter to you?
Why must faith come before salvation?
What's your dog in this fight?
You're not a traditionalist. (Your not one of those guys who thing "works.") So, it's not about you or your value. You really do think it is God fully, except you want faith before salvation. I just don't get why. Why does that matter to you?
If I do not have faith, I am not saved!
Agreement!
Time to hear the angels in heaven singing alleluia just because you and I actually agree! lol
BUT, why does it matter to you that it's faith then saved, instead of saved then faith? Instantaneous? Package deal? Photo-finish? (One right after the other.) Whichever way you want it.
Out of all those choices, why does it matter to you which came first -- salvation or faith, if they come at the same time?
I know why it matters to me. (Because God is the one who does it all. It had absolutely nothing to do with my choices, my deserving it, my value, or even the Eagles are going to the Super Bowl. It is ALL God!) Why does it matter to you?
Why must faith come before salvation?
What's your dog in this fight?
You're not a traditionalist. (Your not one of those guys who thing "works.") So, it's not about you or your value. You really do think it is God fully, except you want faith before salvation. I just don't get why. Why does that matter to you?
D
I'm made alive instead of dead in sin. Not when. Instead.
And how? I don't know. I'm still blown away that Lazarus was dead and yet rose again. I've got no idea how God does that, and yet, he is God, so he does!
What's to repent? I had 16 years to repent, and I never did. How many years did you not repent? So, why, at that given moment did we repent? Us? Or God?
And how? I don't know. I'm still blown away that Lazarus was dead and yet rose again. I've got no idea how God does that, and yet, he is God, so he does!
What's to repent? I had 16 years to repent, and I never did. How many years did you not repent? So, why, at that given moment did we repent? Us? Or God?
While the scripture teaches that the just shall live by faith it is not our faith. Faith comes by hearing the word of God. The Holy Spirit creates faith through our hearing of Gods word. This faith allows us to receive Gods grace which saves us. We are saved by grace through faith. Our faith is increased when we study Gods word and trust what it teaches us about our Savoir.
The justified live by the faith of Jesus Christ created in us unto eternal life.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The justified live by the faith of Jesus Christ created in us unto eternal life.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
D
I've never witnessed a baby birth itself, but I've heard plenty of professing Christians convey they birthed themselves into the kingdom by casting a free will vote. 
They seem to have developed this idea that somehow they just always loved God even when lost (contrary to his Word) and that they wanted to prove their love to God and came to him, denying the inability to do so expressed in Scripture. They also sought God, contrary to his word. Their ability is way over the top! When Jesus said we are unable, they proved him wrong and have a verse to prove it!
They did all this, and God wants it this way, because he wants people to come to him out of real true love for him, because then they prove they're not robots like those evil Calvinists, and did it out of their own precious sincerity. He now waits for people to come to him, he made the offer, and waits for people to exercise their innate ability.
And all this time I thought Jesus saved, not men, that he came to seek and save that which was lost, saved the ungodly, came to call sinners to repent, all being unable to save themselves or even come to him, having no love for God and actually being hostile toward him. Man, I've had it all wrong!
They seem to have developed this idea that somehow they just always loved God even when lost (contrary to his Word) and that they wanted to prove their love to God and came to him, denying the inability to do so expressed in Scripture. They also sought God, contrary to his word. Their ability is way over the top! When Jesus said we are unable, they proved him wrong and have a verse to prove it!
They did all this, and God wants it this way, because he wants people to come to him out of real true love for him, because then they prove they're not robots like those evil Calvinists, and did it out of their own precious sincerity. He now waits for people to come to him, he made the offer, and waits for people to exercise their innate ability.
And all this time I thought Jesus saved, not men, that he came to seek and save that which was lost, saved the ungodly, came to call sinners to repent, all being unable to save themselves or even come to him, having no love for God and actually being hostile toward him. Man, I've had it all wrong!
(Finally got that faint in. lol)
E
because this is what I see the Bible say
We are saved by grace THROUGH faith. Salvation is by grace, but it goes through faith. Faith does not come after salvation.
We are dead BECAUSE of sin, It makes no sense to say we are made alive BEFORE sin is forgiven, and since we are justified (declaired innocent, or freed from the penalty of sin) Because of faith. Faith must precede not only salvation, but regeneration
Why do you think me saying God, I can not save myself, I am deserving of eternal death, I am not worthy of your love, Please God, HAVE mercy on me a sinner. Is me having anything to do with my salvation, When I have just admitted, there is nothing I can do to earn my salvation.
I've never witnessed a baby birth itself, but I've heard plenty of professing Christians convey they birthed themselves into the kingdom by casting a free will vote.
They seem to have developed this idea that somehow they just always loved God even when lost (contrary to his Word) and that they wanted to prove their love to God and came to him, denying the inability to do so expressed in Scripture. They also sought God, contrary to his word. Their ability is way over the top! When Jesus said we are unable, they proved him wrong and have a verse to prove it!
They did all this, and God wants it this way, because he wants people to come to him out of real true love for him, because then they prove they're not robots like those evil Calvinists, and did it out of their own precious sincerity. He now waits for people to come to him, he made the offer, and waits for people to exercise their innate ability.
And all this time I thought Jesus saved, not men, that he came to seek and save that which was lost, saved the ungodly, came to call sinners to repent, all being unable to save themselves or even come to him, having no love for God and actually being hostile toward him. Man, I've had it all wrong!
They seem to have developed this idea that somehow they just always loved God even when lost (contrary to his Word) and that they wanted to prove their love to God and came to him, denying the inability to do so expressed in Scripture. They also sought God, contrary to his word. Their ability is way over the top! When Jesus said we are unable, they proved him wrong and have a verse to prove it!
They did all this, and God wants it this way, because he wants people to come to him out of real true love for him, because then they prove they're not robots like those evil Calvinists, and did it out of their own precious sincerity. He now waits for people to come to him, he made the offer, and waits for people to exercise their innate ability.
And all this time I thought Jesus saved, not men, that he came to seek and save that which was lost, saved the ungodly, came to call sinners to repent, all being unable to save themselves or even come to him, having no love for God and actually being hostile toward him. Man, I've had it all wrong!
For the cause of Christ
Roger
N
well before you are born again EG
when you sin
(assuming you are not yet a new creature)
then youre now a "sinner"
and your name that is in the book of life
will be blotted out
UNLESS you are covered by the imputed righteousness of Jesus
(
Exodus 32:33 - And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book)
Revelation 3:5
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
1 John 5:4
“For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.”
when you sin
(assuming you are not yet a new creature)
then youre now a "sinner"
and your name that is in the book of life
will be blotted out
UNLESS you are covered by the imputed righteousness of Jesus
(
Exodus 32:33 - And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book)
Revelation 3:5
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
1 John 5:4
“For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.”
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