Calvinists: The Just Shall Live BEFORE Having Faith
- Thread starter DevotiontoBible
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Yep. God ordained (decreed) it or it would not have happened. But you don't know what the word means, so you jump to extremes, unafraid to attribute evil where it isn't, and imply God must have been since it has been decreed.
Now your little god who is learning stuff, knows only the beginning and end, but not the things in between, and is growing? Was all a huge surprise to him! Well, he just never knew all this bad stuff would have happened! "Oooops, not my fault!!!" Really it is just your feeble and ignorant of truth attempt to get God off the hook.
He doesn't need you or your help.
Heck, a merterologist knows more than the god you express knows. Around here they give a 10 day forecast, and even know these days what the eight days in the middle are going to do.
Now your little god who is learning stuff, knows only the beginning and end, but not the things in between, and is growing? Was all a huge surprise to him! Well, he just never knew all this bad stuff would have happened! "Oooops, not my fault!!!" Really it is just your feeble and ignorant of truth attempt to get God off the hook.
He doesn't need you or your help.
Heck, a merterologist knows more than the god you express knows. Around here they give a 10 day forecast, and even know these days what the eight days in the middle are going to do.
Yep. God ordained (decreed) it or it would not have happened. But you don't know what the word means, so you jump to extremes, unafraid to attribute evil where it isn't, and imply God must have been since it has been decreed.
Now your little god who is learning stuff, knows only the beginning and end, but not the things in between, and is growing? Was all a huge surprise to him! Well, he just never knew all this bad stuff would have happened! "Oooops, not my fault!!!" Really it is just your feeble and ignorant of truth attempt to get God off the hook.
He doesn't need you or your help.
Heck, a merterologist knows more than the god you express knows. Around here they give a 10 day forecast, and even know these days what the eight days in the middle are going to do.
Now your little god who is learning stuff, knows only the beginning and end, but not the things in between, and is growing? Was all a huge surprise to him! Well, he just never knew all this bad stuff would have happened! "Oooops, not my fault!!!" Really it is just your feeble and ignorant of truth attempt to get God off the hook.
He doesn't need you or your help.
Heck, a merterologist knows more than the god you express knows. Around here they give a 10 day forecast, and even know these days what the eight days in the middle are going to do.
E
Was asking a question. Not defending myself
I do nto need to defend myself in anything, If I make a mistake I have always admitted and confessed it.
However as for your post. I must wonder why we all continue to speak in athread where a person attacked my calvanist brothers and sisters in christ, thus giving him an audience.
I do nto need to defend myself in anything, If I make a mistake I have always admitted and confessed it.
However as for your post. I must wonder why we all continue to speak in athread where a person attacked my calvanist brothers and sisters in christ, thus giving him an audience.
Hi SG,
How are your feet doing?
Yes indeed it is faith that saves, nothing more or nothing less.
Having read what you have said a few thoughts have come into my head.
Firstly what struck me was faith being a fruit.
Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
So I can't see faith but I can see faithfulness.
I know faith is a gift.
Ephesians 2:8
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
So if we have faith then we manifest fruit.
I think the gift of faith is for all
John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
But a person has to receive that gift by repenting of the sin on unbelief in Jesus.
That comes as a result of
Romans 10:17
17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
In my own mind I can't reconcile people in the OT who were saved were so as a result of having the Holy Spirit in them that caused them to repent of the sin of unbelief.
In my mind they were saved because God spoke, they heard and believed
So like in Romans 10 they heard God and believed.
There are not many in the OT that I can recall who had to repent of the sin of unbelief, in terms to receive salvation.
God spoke, they heard they did. Therefore saved by the gift of faith given by God.
Yet there are many who refused to walk by faith.
Maybe I have a blockage in that the Holy Spirit resides in a person after Jesus died and not before.
Does the above make sense?
If not can you please explain to me why.
Bill
How are your feet doing?
Yes indeed it is faith that saves, nothing more or nothing less.
Having read what you have said a few thoughts have come into my head.
Firstly what struck me was faith being a fruit.
Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
So I can't see faith but I can see faithfulness.
I know faith is a gift.
Ephesians 2:8
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
So if we have faith then we manifest fruit.
I think the gift of faith is for all
John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
But a person has to receive that gift by repenting of the sin on unbelief in Jesus.
That comes as a result of
Romans 10:17
17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
In my own mind I can't reconcile people in the OT who were saved were so as a result of having the Holy Spirit in them that caused them to repent of the sin of unbelief.
In my mind they were saved because God spoke, they heard and believed
So like in Romans 10 they heard God and believed.
There are not many in the OT that I can recall who had to repent of the sin of unbelief, in terms to receive salvation.
God spoke, they heard they did. Therefore saved by the gift of faith given by God.
Yet there are many who refused to walk by faith.
Maybe I have a blockage in that the Holy Spirit resides in a person after Jesus died and not before.
Does the above make sense?
If not can you please explain to me why.
Bill
what a bizarre accusation??
i don't like versions that pass themselves off as scripture when they become less and less what the scripture actually says and more and more someone's interpretation or misinterpretation of scripture is. at a certain point it's much closer to reading a commentary than a Bible -- for example Hebrews 10:14 in 'the message' goes like this:
It was a perfect sacrifice by a perfect person to perfect some very imperfect people. By that single offering, he did everything that needed to be done for everyone who takes part in the purifying process.
what do you think, DevotiontoBible?
you like that? you prefer it to what Hebrews 10:14 actually says?
i must say, it's very bizarre indeed for a person who calls themselves 'devotion to Bible' to make statements supporting anti-devotion to faithful, literal translation of the Bible and preference for versions that stray wildly from genuine representation of the scripture. more like 'devotion to personal interpretation' !
does that not occur to you? do you find that as hypocritical and ironic as i do?
i don't like versions that pass themselves off as scripture when they become less and less what the scripture actually says and more and more someone's interpretation or misinterpretation of scripture is. at a certain point it's much closer to reading a commentary than a Bible -- for example Hebrews 10:14 in 'the message' goes like this:
It was a perfect sacrifice by a perfect person to perfect some very imperfect people. By that single offering, he did everything that needed to be done for everyone who takes part in the purifying process.
what do you think, DevotiontoBible?
you like that? you prefer it to what Hebrews 10:14 actually says?
i must say, it's very bizarre indeed for a person who calls themselves 'devotion to Bible' to make statements supporting anti-devotion to faithful, literal translation of the Bible and preference for versions that stray wildly from genuine representation of the scripture. more like 'devotion to personal interpretation' !
does that not occur to you? do you find that as hypocritical and ironic as i do?
There is only one way of being saved, grace through faith. Now, those who don't have faith aren't saved. You said the OT saints believed God. They couldn't believe w/o having faith. And in regards to faithfulness(NIV uses that word), no one can have faithfulness and also be devoid of faith.
Read Romans 8:5-9. Those in the flesh(lost in proper context) are hostile towards God, can't please Him. That goes for both OT & NT ppl. Those who are in the Spirit(saved in proper context) love God.
Regeneration is being born again via the Spirit. No one is saved and not regenerated. Its not biblically possible.
Read Romans 8:5-9. Those in the flesh(lost in proper context) are hostile towards God, can't please Him. That goes for both OT & NT ppl. Those who are in the Spirit(saved in proper context) love God.
Regeneration is being born again via the Spirit. No one is saved and not regenerated. Its not biblically possible.
yes!
and especially if you are a new believer, or don't know that what you're reading isn't literally what the scriptures say, you won't even know that you may very well be being sorely misled by what you're reading! you'll be reading more or less someone's interpretation - which may or may not be accurate - and thinking it's literally scripture because hey, there it is printed in a book with the word 'Bible' on the cover, must be accurate, right??
IMO anyone actually devoted to Bible is double-minded if they hold paraphrasing versions in higher esteem than literal translations
Was Jesus God manifest in the flesh?
Hebrews 5
7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Wow! God learned something living in a human body as a man?Or is this Amphomorphismismismsim?
There is no record in the OT where we see God feared. Did God in heaven ever thirst? Hungered? Get sleepy? Wearied? Did God in heaven ever get mocked? Did God in heaven ever get slapped in the face by a man? NOPE!
God manifest in the flesh, Jesus, learned what it was like being a man living in a world He cursed because of sin. Yes, God learned. And because He learned, He can help us in our infirmities. Praise the Lord! What a Saviour! Great is the mystery of godliness!
Hebrews 5
7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Wow! God learned something living in a human body as a man?Or is this Amphomorphismismismsim?
There is no record in the OT where we see God feared. Did God in heaven ever thirst? Hungered? Get sleepy? Wearied? Did God in heaven ever get mocked? Did God in heaven ever get slapped in the face by a man? NOPE!
God manifest in the flesh, Jesus, learned what it was like being a man living in a world He cursed because of sin. Yes, God learned. And because He learned, He can help us in our infirmities. Praise the Lord! What a Saviour! Great is the mystery of godliness!