Not By Works

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stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#54,802
Nov 24, 2013
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#54,802
Isnt it great that we can be hidden in Jesus and insults just roll off? The truth is a protector. Breastplate! Wow.
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#54,803
Feb 15, 2017
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#54,803
stonesoffire said:
Isnt it great that we can be hidden in Jesus and insults just roll off? The truth is a protector. Breastplate! Wow.
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Still dunt get what it means to be hidden in Christ and his it works. Maybe that's why insults at me do not just roll off.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#54,804
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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#54,804
BillG said:
Still dunt get what it means to be hidden in Christ and his it works. Maybe that's why insults at me do not just roll off.
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I had a vision of this Bill, I hope it will help you.

I literally went into the body of Jesus in this vision with a thunk. It was forceful and I was facing his backbone, not the front. Then this force turned me around and I am looking out through His eyes.

This is being in His body for everyone. Then I saw myself begin to walk but the armor was on Jesus. I was walking in Him.

Helps? Or not?
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#54,805
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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#54,805
Gotta go now. I miss you guys when I'm doing stuff. Ever try to do housework and read posts? Lol
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#54,807
Feb 15, 2017
8,884
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#54,807
stonesoffire said:
I had a vision of this Bill, I hope it will help you.

I literally went into the body of Jesus in this vision with a thunk. It was forceful and I was facing his backbone, not the front. Then this force turned me around and I am looking out through His eyes.

This is being in His body for everyone. Then I saw myself begin to walk but the armor was on Jesus. I was walking in Him.

Helps? Or not?
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If I'm truthful then I would have to say no.
That's not me denying what you are saying.

I just do not get it.

I noticed DC liked my comment concerning this.

A while back I asked him about Romans 7 cause I didn't get that either.
He explained, made sense at the time but now still don't get it.

DC be gentle with me:cool:

Your talking to a guy here who for 36 years as a believer spent 31 one of them not believing God loved me.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#54,808
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#54,808
BillG said:
If I'm truthful then I would have to say no.
That's not me denying what you are saying.

I just do not get it.

I noticed DC liked my comment concerning this.

A while back I asked him about Romans 7 cause I didn't get that either.
He explained, made sense at the time but now still don't get it.

DC be gentle with me:cool:

Your talking to a guy here who for 36 years as a believer spent 31 one of them not believing God loved me.
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HAHAHA no worries BILL....you have always been decent and have NEVER accused me or attributed to me things I have not said and or implied........that is the one thing that fires me up the most.......I ABSOLUTELY HATE having words put into my mouth that I have not said and or things attributed to me that I have not said or implied.....HAHAHAH
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#54,809
Dec 28, 2016
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#54,809
BillG said:
If I'm truthful then I would have to say no.
That's not me denying what you are saying.

I just do not get it.

I noticed DC liked my comment concerning this.

A while back I asked him about Romans 7 cause I didn't get that either.
He explained, made sense at the time but now still don't get it.

DC be gentle with me:cool:

Your talking to a guy here who for 36 years as a believer spent 31 one of them not believing God loved me.
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What study resources do you have/use?
 
Endoscopy

Endoscopy

Senior Member
#54,810
Oct 13, 2017
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#54,810
dcontroversal said:
Another wonderful day under the sun..........thank God for eternal life through faith that Jesus sustains by his promises, power and work........

He that believes on the SON is having everlasting life.......and everlasting life does not mean temporal and belief = faith....

FAITH alone into the work of Christ is what saves a man....works do not save, keep saved, embellish salvation, finish off salvation, earn salvation, facilitate salvation....FAITH is what saves.......
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Works proves the faith is real. You cannot seperate that. Rant all you want. Faith if works follows. No works, faith is dead. Therefore works is evidenceeof the faith. Just like Jesus stated. All yoy need to do is see the works. That demonstrates the faith is real. Otherwise how can you know there is faith?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#54,811
#54,811
Studyman said:
I don't think this teaching is what God had in mind EG.

22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Eternal life is not given to you until the end. IF one continues in His Goodness,

Rom. 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Gal. 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Gal. 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Heb. 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

1 Pet. 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
WE are to be diligent and "Take heed" that the "many" who come in Christ's Name don't deceive us BECAUSE we CAN BE TRICKED. Because We can "turn away", because we CAN "Be cut off".

The serpent teaches we Can't loose life EG, not the God of the Bible. Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:



Are you preaching you already have eternal life? That you don't have to "endure" to the end? That you don't have to be "diligent"? That you don't have to "Take Heed"? That you don't have to "continue" in His Goodness.

Rom. 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Is Paul peaching that I am to actually do something here, a "work"? If I already have been given Immortality, which I can not loose as you preach, then why am I to continue to seek it in "well Doing"? Doesn't Jesus do all the "well doing" for me?

I don't know EG.

You preach that God created instructions so burdensome, so grievous, so many in number that it is impossible to keep them, and that God did this on purpose, then turned around and killed tens of thousands of people for not keeping these laws He created too burdensome to follow. Could this unjust God you preach also give you eternal life then take it away?

There is another option though. Maybe, just maybe the Bible is truth. I know it's a long shot, but maybe man doesn't have immortality yet as the Bible teaches and men won't receive it until after Jesus comes back and gives this gift to them. Maybe the scriptures are right and your preaching is wrong. Maybe God is true and MAN is the liar. Maybe we are to have faith that God "WIIL GIVE us eternal life as it is written, IF we continue to follow His Sayings which by any objective view should be considered "Good", don't you think?

Col. 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

You should re-think this one EG.
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Titus 1: 2 [FONT=&quot]in hope of [/FONT][FONT=&quot]eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,

Titus 3: 7 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of [/FONT][FONT=&quot]eternal life.

1 John 5: 11 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]And this is the testimony: that God has given us [/FONT][FONT=&quot]eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

1 John 5 : 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.


[/FONT][FONT=&quot]There is one person here who needs to rethink his position. It is NOT ME[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#54,812
#54,812
star said:
If we are to build one another up, how can that be possible with so much difference of interpretation among believers? I can't "build up" someone who is convinced that I have to work for my salvation and to keep on working or that salvation can be lost. I almost started a thread about this but it ties in with this thread so I'm just gonna ask this question here.
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Thats just it, we are not all believers. Or should I say we are not all people who have true saving FAITH. (I think we all believe, but as james said, faith is not enough./
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#54,813
Feb 15, 2017
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preacher4truth said:
What study resources do you have/use?
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The bibles I use are NKJV/NIV/NLT/ESV (strongs version) all also have Bible study notes.
I also have the Apologetics study Bible with notes along with the Gospel transformation notes, and reformation Study Bible notes

I have the following translations.

Darby's, and YLT.

I have Matthew Henry's commentary.

I also Bible hub.

I do try to get an understanding of the Greek behind the translation we have in the Bible today.

I think that helps but can lead to confusion, for me anyway.

Romans 7


Romans 7:18-20
18 And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. I want to do what is right, but I can’t. 19 I want to do what is good, but I don’t. I don’t want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway. 20 But if I do what I don’t want to do, I am not really the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it.

Romans 7:17-18
17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.

The Greek in my bolded above is sarx. Which means flesh as said in NKJV but in NLT/NIV it's sinful nature.

So here's my struggle.

Do I have a new nature or not?
If I have a new nature then why do I still sin.
How does sin reside in my flesh?
If it does then do I still have a sinful nature?
Because if I sin then it's my nature that causes me to sin, the sinful nature.

What compounds it for me is

Romans 8:1


1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. (NKJV)

Romans 8:4
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (NKJV)

So that's why I'm confused.

If memory serves me the textus receptus includes Romans 8:1 and 8:4 - Who do not walk according to the flesh.

Yet the Westcott-Hort translation
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]Inteprets Romans 8:1

There is no condemnation for those in Jesus and there it ends.

Romans 8:1
Life Through the Spirit
1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, (NIV)

Mind you not all my study has done my head in.

I have been been released from a lot of faulty concepts and thinking.

Bet your glad you asked:cool:

Thank you for asking though.

I am always open to correction and learning.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#54,815
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
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#54,815
BillG said:
The bibles I use are NKJV/NIV/NLT/ESV (strongs version) all also have Bible study notes.
I also have the Apologetics study Bible with notes along with the Gospel transformation notes, and reformation Study Bible notes

I have the following translations.

Darby's, and YLT.

I have Matthew Henry's commentary.

I also Bible hub.

I do try to get an understanding of the Greek behind the translation we have in the Bible today.

I think that helps but can lead to confusion, for me anyway.

Romans 7


Romans 7:18-20
18 And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. I want to do what is right, but I can’t. 19 I want to do what is good, but I don’t. I don’t want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway. 20 But if I do what I don’t want to do, I am not really the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it.

Romans 7:17-18
17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.

The Greek in my bolded above is sarx. Which means flesh as said in NKJV but in NLT/NIV it's sinful nature.

So here's my struggle.

Do I have a new nature or not?
If I have a new nature then why do I still sin.
How does sin reside in my flesh?
If it does then do I still have a sinful nature?
Because if I sin then it's my nature that causes me to sin, the sinful nature.

What compounds it for me is

Romans 8:1


1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. (NKJV)

Romans 8:4
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (NKJV)

So that's why I'm confused.

If memory serves me the textus receptus includes Romans 8:1 and 8:4 - Who do not walk according to the flesh.

Yet the Westcott-Hort translation

Inteprets Romans 8:1

There is no condemnation for those in Jesus and there it ends.

Romans 8:1
Life Through the Spirit
1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, (NIV)

Mind you not all my study has done my head in.

I have been been released from a lot of faulty concepts and thinking.

Bet your glad you asked:cool:

Thank you for asking though.

I am always open to correction and learning.
Click to expand...
You should get e-Sword: Free Bible Study for the PC.

Then, get free add-ons (things you can add to and retrieve within esword, read, compare, study) here with commentaries, Bible versions, dictionaries &c: Latest e-Sword Downloads, Modules, Utilities, and News - e-Sword News, Downloads, and Forums - www.BibleSupport.com

I have esword and it contains over 80 commentaries and is quite useful.
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#54,816
Feb 15, 2017
8,884
4,334
113
#54,816
preacher4truth said:
You should get e-Sword: Free Bible Study for the PC.

Then, get free add-ons (things you can add to and retrieve within esword, read, compare, study) here with commentaries, Bible versions, dictionaries &c: Latest e-Sword Downloads, Modules, Utilities, and News - e-Sword News, Downloads, and Forums - www.BibleSupport.com

I have esword and it contains over 80 commentaries and is quite useful.
Click to expand...
Can I get it on my Ipad?

That's what I use on this forum.

I do have the Olive Tree Bible dictionary
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#54,819
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#54,819
Endoscopy said:
Works proves the faith is real. You cannot seperate that. Rant all you want. Faith if works follows. No works, faith is dead. Therefore works is evidenceeof the faith. Just like Jesus stated. All yoy need to do is see the works. That demonstrates the faith is real. Otherwise how can you know there is faith?
Click to expand...
Listen pal....the only one ranting is you about your works.....and too be honest...your dishonesty the last couple of days have rendered anything you say valueless.....

Jesus said BELIEVE = everlasting life, eternal life, justified, saved forever......it is faith that saves not works....wake up!
 
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