Revelation 3:10

[pottersclay]

I don't think it could get any worse for this women and I would pray God to give her strength to hold on to what little faith remains.
I would pray the Lord to raise up one to comfort her and if it was his will to use me.
I see no reason to tell her that she is not suffering under wrath but being percecuted for his name sake.
If the Lord permits I would stand along side her and console as much as I could.

Very interesting circumstances you have conveyed which should prompt us all to call upon the name of our God for our fellow brothers and sisters. Could not imagine what it would be like in her shoes or anyone else's in this circumstance..

Thank you ..... Potter.

 

[ComeLordJesus]

I'm confused as to why you are using a passage about the testing of unbelievers at the end of the age. This teaches that the resurrection and rapture of true Christian believers has to take place before the hour of temptation begins.

 

[Adstar]

Revelation 3:10---
"Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth".

According to many news outlets, in recent years many Christians have suffered horrible and violent deaths in the Middle East. Many are now living and dying in deplorable conditions in refugee camps.

If you had the opportunity to visit one of the camps, and were approached by a woman who told you how missionaries had came to her city, preached the Gospel, many were saved, baptized, and became part of the Church, how would you respond?

What is she also told you that the missionaries also told her how Jesus would some day return to the earth, but before that happened, He would pour out His wrath on the earth and those who lived on it.

What if she also told you the missionaries told her not to worry, Jesus loves His church, and before this terrible time comes, Jesus will come and rapture His church.

What is the woman than said, the bombs came and destroyed my city, the soldiers came and killed our sons and husbands and mutilated their bodies, they raped me and our daughters. Many of us and our children are sick, hungry and dying.
We have suffered much. We have lost everything.

What if she then asked you---
Why did the missionaries lie to us about Jesus love and that "He would keep us from the hour of trial"?
Why did Jesus not keep his promise to "keep us from the hour of trial"?
Why has God forsaken us, while the rest of Jesus Church is not suffering?

How would you answer this woman?

The pre-trib rapture believers could not answer her......

 

[Ahwatukee]

The pre-trib rapture believers could not answer her......

I beg your pardon! I did answer that question in post #18. Regarding the following:

What is the woman than said, the bombs came and destroyed my city, the soldiers came and killed our sons and husbands and mutilated their bodies, they raped me and our daughters. Many of us and our children are sick, hungry and dying. We have suffered much. We have lost everything.

What if she then asked you---
Why did the missionaries lie to us about Jesus love and that "He would keep us from the hour of trial"?
Why did Jesus not keep his promise to "keep us from the hour of trial"?
Why has God forsaken us, while the rest of Jesus Church is not suffering?

How would you answer this woman?

The error that Ellsworth is making, is that the scenario above is not the hour of trial. God never said that believers would not experience those things mentioned above. The promise to keep us out of the hour of trial, is referring to keeping believers out of the time of God's wrath, which hasn't started yet and won't start until after the church has been gathered. The scenario above would be persecution and tribulation at the hands of mankind and the powers of darkness, where the hour of trial hasn't started yet.

The hour of trial, which is the time period of God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, will take place during that last seven years, which begins with the opening of the first seal, which is symbolic representing the antichrist. Any evil that takes place until that time comes at the hands of mankind and the power darkness.

Ellsworth's comparison is in error.

 

[louis]

I would tell the woman that this is the curse that goes over the face of the whole earth (Zechariah 5:3), and what man does for it is the reason you are in the predicament you are in.
To attain material goods, man devours the whole earth (Daniel 7:23), through industry.
Industrial pollution has caused Syria to experience several years of extreme drought, which in turn casued many of the people from the countryside to move into the cities.
With insufficient food and room in the cities, civil strife soon broke out, which then turned into civil war.
Yours, and Syria's situation is scheduled to continue and grow throughout the world as mankind will not repent for the love he has for the works from his hands (Revelation 9:20), which brings in lawlessness and lewdness (Revelation 9:21).
At the climax of lawlessness and lewdnes which will be as in the days of Noah, and as in the days of Lot in Sodom, the Lord will appear and bring to an end Satans system on the world (Matthew 24:26-30).
You along with your murdered brethren will then be resurrected and among the sheep who shall be given eternal life in a world free from the curse (Matthew 25:31-40).

Zechariah 5:3 Then said he unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it.

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Matthew 24:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

 

[lastofall]

You do err not knowing the scripture, neither the power of God.

 

[louis]

You do err not knowing the scripture, neither the power of God.

The Word of God confirms itself, does it not? If I have put the pieces of the puzzle together incorectly, then with the Word, show me where I am in error.
If you cannot, you are then bringing up an empty accusal.

 

[dcontroversal]

Gotta love those who twist doctrine....making thilipsis and orge the same while flat ignoring the announced wrath before the throne in heaven and pushing the perceived wrath (really just tribulation) <-- lost men seem to think is wrath while hiding in caves..........

 

[louis]

To paraphrase Mr. Fishburne as Morpheus: Most people are not ready to be unpluged, with some so hopelessly dependant with the system (Satans Matrix) that they will fight to defend it.

 

[Ellsworth1943]

Revelation 3:10---
"Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth".

According to many news outlets, in recent years many Christians have suffered horrible and violent deaths in the Middle East. Many are now living and dying in deplorable conditions in refugee camps.

If you had the opportunity to visit one of the camps, and were approached by a woman who told you how missionaries had came to her city, preached the Gospel, many were saved, baptized, and became part of the Church, how would you respond?

What is she also told you that the missionaries also told her how Jesus would some day return to the earth, but before that happened, He would pour out His wrath on the earth and those who lived on it.

What if she also told you the missionaries told her not to worry, Jesus loves His church, and before this terrible time comes, Jesus will come and rapture His church.

What is the woman than said, the bombs came and destroyed my city, the soldiers came and killed our sons and husbands and mutilated their bodies, they raped me and our daughters. Many of us and our children are sick, hungry and dying.
We have suffered much. We have lost everything.

What if she then asked you---
Why did the missionaries lie to us about Jesus love and that "He would keep us from the hour of trial"?
Why did Jesus not keep his promise to "keep us from the hour of trial"?
Why has God forsaken us, while the rest of Jesus Church is not suffering?

How would you answer this woman?

My response to this lady who has suffered so much--------

First-- I would thank those missionaries that preached the Gospel that lead to her and her families salvation.

Second-- I would tell her that the missionaries did not intentionally lie to her. They simple did not understand the Scripture.
While there intentions were good, often men misunderstand Scripture and mislead people. They should be forgiven.

Third--I would read Acts 14:21-23 to her and emphasize "that we through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God".
Jesus had not failed but her and here family worthy had been judged to suffer for His name sake, as He had suffered for us. Her husband, sons, and others who had endured so much are now with Jesus. No more pain nor sorrow for them.

Fourth--I would tell he that God has not forsaken her. I would tell here that many children of God have suffered as she has and many more will in the future. Her time is now, but soon all will suffer in like manner.
I would tell here that my prayer is that when my time comes to endure that I would do so as her family has and glorify God in my dying.

There are many in the world and on this forum who are offering people a false hope of escaping a time of tribulation as these people and many before them have suffered. No one would want to suffer as they have so they are eager to be told "O, don't worry, Jesus will never allow His church to suffer great tribulation. He will come and take us out before that time comes".

In 2 Timothy 3:1, Paul tells us "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come".
He goes on to say there will come those who boast of their knowledge and be proud of their understanding.
In verse 7 he says "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of truth".

In 2 Timothy 4:3,4, Paul tells us "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lust shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall turn unto fables".

Study the Word brothers and sisters. Be very wary of teachers who have ALL the answers. Those who proclaim their spiritual discernment. Those who judge those who question them as being unlearned and ignorant of the truth.

I will leave you with this----
I am an old man that has studied God's word for many years. I know very little, but I am settled that I am correct in what I have said concerning the gathering of the Saints and the coming of Jesus, BUT, unlike many, I will confess I may be wrong.
But no one has offered me solid evidence that I am. Only opinions and personal interpretation of Scripture have been offered.

It is up to each of you to decide for your self if the verses in 2 Timothy 3 and 4 describe any of us on this forum.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Keep in mind they are telling these people about a rapture
that does Not exist in scriptures .....

1Co_15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

That event is what we Christians call "Rapture"

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

That event is what we Christians call "Rapture"

1Th_4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

That event is what we Christians call "Rapture"

Joh_14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

That event is what we Christians call "Rapture"

Rev 1:7 Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

That event is what we Christians call "Rapture"

Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

That event is what we Christians call "Rapture"

Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

That event is what we Christians call "Rapture"

Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

That event is what we Christians call "Rapture" So does the Scriptures say the word "Rapture"? No. Does it plainly teach there is going to be one? Most certainly does. Thank you Jesus.
Does the Scriptures say the word "Abortion"? No. Does that mean abortions don't exist? No.
Does the Scriptures say the word "Rapture"? No. Does that mean the Rapture isn't going to happen? No.

Children can understand this.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[Ahwatukee]

Below is the gathering of the church, which is a separate event from Matt.24:29-31, which takes place prior to God's wrath.

1Th_4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Below is when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, where he will send his angels and first gather the wicked, then the wheat, both groups being those who will have survived through God's wrath in mortal bodies. The tares will be killed and the wheat will enter into the millennial period to repopulate it. The angels going throughout the earth is not representing the gathering of the church. Angels do not gather the church at the time of the resurrection.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The events listed above, are two separate events

 

[DiscipleDave]

Below is the gathering of the church, which is a separate event from Matt.24:29-31, which takes place prior to God's wrath.

Jesus does not come back to Earth a third time. This is a false doctrine, and is not the TRUTH. When Jesus comes back the second time, He will Rapture the Church and set up His Kingdom on Earth, and the Saints will immediately start reigning with Him over the entire Earth.

You still have not answered me concerning all the Scriptures about sinners being present with the Holy City here on Earth, as to when that fits into your timeline.

Your timeline of events. you have the Holy City coming down AFTER the 7 year Tribulation Period. AFTER the 1,000 years, AFTER the Great white Throne judgment when all the wicked are cast into Hell. Yet we have verses that plainly and clearly teach sinners are present WITH the Holy City. How is that possible with your timeline of events? It's not, therefore the reason you don't answer isn't it?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The events listed above, are two separate events

Scriptures that teach what you are teaching please? i know that you believe they are two different events, because that is what YOU interpret them to be, but could you please show Scriptures that teach what you say is the truth? Thanks.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[Bladerunner]

I don't think that is something you should tell a person who has already gone through hell lost everything and experienced more of the tribulation to come than most us will ever have to in these days of easy living. Even if your speaking the truth you cannot just bluntly say these things to such a person who already is at the breaking point of sanity from her sufferings. A person like this desperately needs hope who needs to know that all the hell she has seen and gone through was not for nothing.

I mean put yourself in her shoes if you have gone through the absolute most horrific things and lost so many loved ones and are at the brink of your own sanity from the massive amount of suffering that you have had do endure and are still suffering severely internally from only to be told oh I'm sorry for your severe sufferings but you will have to go through even worse things and most likely have to face death. A person who has gone through all of this could have a mental breakdown or could lost all hope in everything including God and think death is better than this life and kill themselves.

As a Christian, I am not afraid of Dying. I know what is on the other side, JESUS, my Lord and Savior tells me so..... "For the Bible tells me so". For all those who are in Christ know that suffering is entirely possible while in this mortal body and surrounded by evil. To die (naturally or by others hands) will be to release us from that suffering.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Brother Ahwatukee


Can you answer post #34?

Thanks




^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[louis]

I would tell the woman that this is the curse that goes over the face of the whole earth (Zechariah 5:3), and what man does for it is the reason you are in the predicament you are in.
To attain material goods, man devours the whole earth (Daniel 7:23), through industry.
Industrial pollution has caused Syria to experience several years of extreme drought, which in turn casued many of the people from the countryside to move into the cities.
With insufficient food and room in the cities, civil strife soon broke out, which then turned into civil war.
Yours, and Syria's situation is scheduled to continue and grow throughout the world as mankind will not repent for the love he has for the works from his hands (Revelation 9:20), which brings in lawlessness and lewdness (Revelation 9:21).
At the climax of lawlessness and lewdnes which will be as in the days of Noah, and as in the days of Lot in Sodom, the Lord will appear and bring to an end Satans system on the world (Matthew 24:26-30).
You along with your murdered brethren will then be resurrected and among the sheep who shall be given eternal life in a world free from the curse (Matthew 25:31-40).

Zechariah 5:3 Then said he unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it.

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Matthew 24:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...enge-to-trumps-agenda/?utm_term=.236c14a722d9

Even the U.S.' intelligence assessment agencies corroborate that environmentally things are going to get a whole lot worse throughout the world. Excerpt below.

Then there's the question of climate change. Much as the Pentagon has in recent years, the threat assessment warned that rising global temperatures are “likely to fuel economic and social discontent — and possibly upheaval.” Rising seas, scarcer resources and collapsing ecosystems, it said, will “raise the risk of humanitarian disasters, conflict, water and food shortages, population migration, labor shortfalls, price shocks, and power outages.”

 

[Ahwatukee]

Morning Louis,

If you are interested, I started blogs about three weeks ago to give a deeper understanding of the severity and magnitude of the results of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. I did this for Blain and also because so many people think that the Lord is going to protect His church within that time of wrath, instead of removing them from earth first, according to His promise. So I wanted to show the absurdity of this by describing each seal, trumpet and bowl judgments and their accumulative destruction up on the earth. If you are interested, click on the link below it will take you to those blogs.


Christian Chat Rooms & Forums - Ahwatukee - Blogs

 

[louis]

Morning Louis,

If you are interested, I started blogs about three weeks ago to give a deeper understanding of the severity and magnitude of the results of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. I did this for Blain and also because so many people think that the Lord is going to protect His church within that time of wrath, instead of removing them from earth first, according to His promise. So I wanted to show the absurdity of this by describing each seal, trumpet and bowl judgments and their accumulative destruction up on the earth. If you are interested, click on the link below it will take you to those blogs.


Christian Chat Rooms & Forums - Ahwatukee - Blogs

There wrath of God comes upon the worshippers of the beast, which comes after the 3.5 years in which the whole faithless world will be in a materialistic state of euporia.
The great tribulation precedes the rising of the beast from the sea, which brings about the materialistic realm of the beast, which has the whole faithless world worshipping the beast.

 

[Ahwatukee]

There wrath of God comes upon the worshippers of the beast, which comes after the 3.5 years in which the whole faithless world will be in a materialistic state of euporia.
The great tribulation precedes the rising of the beast from the sea, which brings about the materialistic realm of the beast, which has the whole faithless world worshipping the beast.

There wrath of God comes upon the worshippers of the beast, which comes after the 3.5 years in which the whole faithless world will be in a materialistic state of euphoria.

A materialistic state of euphoria? You mean like it is right now?

The wrath of God will affect anyone who happens to be on the earth during that seven year period. Even the great tribulation saints are affected. This is why the Lord warns believers multiple times to watch and be ready so that this day does not close on us like a t trap.

God's wrath is going to begin at the on-set of the seven years. The beasts kingdom and his proclaiming to be God, is what starts in the middle of the seven. Jesus is the One opening the seals, which leads into the trumpets, followed by the bowl judgments, and is therefore the One initiating God's wrath.

The purpose of God's wrath is not just because of those worshiping the beast during the last 3 1/2 years, but will be upon those who have continued to reject His plan of salvation through His Son and who continue to live according to the sinful nature. According to Jesus, the great tribulation begins with the setting up of the abomination in the temple, which takes place in the middle of the seven years. However, God's wrath will begin with the opening of the first seal, which is representing the antichrist, the rider on the white horse. God's wrath will be in operation during the entire seven years until the end when Christ returns to the earth to end the age.