GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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TMS

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John said he was ' in the Sprit on the Lord's day " . he did not say Sabbath, he used a word that was only used there, meaning something different than Sabbath. so, you can retract your lie whenever you wish.
Mat_12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Mar_2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Luk_6:5 And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Exo_31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

This verse - Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
There is nothing about which day of the week John was in the Spirit except the fact that it was the Lords day and the only connection to that is the verses above.
Presumption counts for nothing.
 

laymen

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John said he was ' in the Sprit on the Lord's day " . he did not say Sabbath, he used a word that was only used there, meaning something different than Sabbath. so, you can retract your lie whenever you wish.

[FONT=&quot]The NASB here references [/FONT]Acts 20:17[FONT=&quot] which refers to Paul addressing the brethren on the first day til midnight, though I believe an honest exegesis will reveal no particular connection to this verse. Some accept that the term "the Lord's Day," here refers to the first day of the week, but I cannot see on what scripturally-internal basis? There are indeed references, in scripture, which are exegetically relevant to this verse. And (forgive me for saying so) but I believe the power of bias causes them to be obfuscated or overlooked:[/FONT]Matt 12:8[FONT=&quot]; [[/FONT]Mark 2:28[FONT=&quot]; [/FONT]Luke 6:5[FONT=&quot]]; [/FONT]Isa 58:13-14


Lord’s day. Gr. kuriakē hēmera. Various attempts have been made to explain this expression, which appears only here in Scripture. Some interpreters equate this term with “the day of the Lord” of the OT prophets (see Joel 2:11, 31; Zeph. 1:14; Mal. 4:5; cf. Acts 2:20). It may be granted that, taken by themselves, the words might be so interpreted. Those who thus explain the expression point to the fact that the Revelation focuses attention on the great final day of the Lord and events leading up to it (see on Rev. 1:1). To be “in the Spirit on the Lord’s day” could possibly be understood as meaning to be carried in vision down the stream of time to witness events connected with the day of the Lord.
There are, however, reasons for rejecting this interpretation. In the first place, when the phrase “day of the Lord” clearly designates the great day of God the Greek is always hēmera tou kuriou or hēmera kuriou (1 Cor. 5:5; 2 Cor. 1:14; 1 Thess. 5:2; 2 Peter 3:10). Second, the context (Rev. 1:9, 10) implies that the term “Lord’s day” refers to the time when John saw the vision, rather than the subject of the vision. Thus, John gives his location, “the isle that is called Patmos” (v. 9); his reason for being there, “for the word of God” (v. 9); and his condition in vision, “in the Spirit.” These phrases all have to do with the circumstances under which the vision was given, and it is logical to conclude that the fourth does also, giving the specific time of the revelation. Most expositors so conclude.
Although unique in Scripture, the term kuriakē hēmera has a long history in post-Biblical Greek. Like its abbreviated form, kuriakē, it is a familiar term in the Church Fathers for the first day of the week, and in modern Greek kuriakē is the usual term for Sunday. Its Latin equivalent, dominica dies, is a common designation for the same day, and has passed into several modern languages, such as Spanish, domingo, and French, dimanche, both terms for Sunday. For this reason many scholars hold the opinion that kuriakē hēmera in the present passage also refers to Sunday, and that John not only received his vision on that day but also recognized it as “the Lord’s day,” presumably because on that day Christ had risen from the dead.
There are both negative and positive reasons for rejecting this interpretation. First is the recognized principle of historical method, that an allusion is to be interpreted only in terms of evidence that is previous to it in point of time or contemporary with it, and not by historical data from a later period. This principle has an important bearing on the problem of the meaning of the expression “Lord’s day” as it appears in the present passage. Although this term occurs frequently in the Church Fathers with the meaning of Sunday, the first conclusive evidence of such use does not appear until the latter part of the 2d century in the Apocryphal Gospel According to Peter (9, 12; ANF, vol. 9, p. 8), where the day of Christ’s resurrection is termed the “Lord’s day.” Since this document was written at least three quarters of a century after John wrote the Revelation, it cannot be presented as a proof that the phrase “Lord’s day” in John’s time refers to Sunday. Numerous examples might be cited to show the rapidity with which words can change their meanings. Therefore the meaning of “Lord’s day” here is better determined by reference to Scripture rather than to subsequent literature.
On the positive side of the question is the fact that although the Scripture nowhere identifies Sunday as having any religious connection with the Lord, repeatedly it recognizes that the seventh day, the Sabbath, is the Lord’s special day. God is said to have blessed and sanctified the seventh day (see Gen. 2:3); He declared it to be the memorial of His act of creation (see Ex. 20:11); He called it specifically “my holy day” (see Isa. 58:13); and Jesus declared Himself to be “Lord also of the sabbath” (see Mark 2:28) in the sense that as Lord of men, He was also Lord over that which was made for man, the Sabbath. Thus, when the phrase “Lord’s day” is interpreted in accordance with evidence prior to and contemporary with John’s time, it appears that there is only one day to which it can refer, and that is the seventh-day Sabbath. See 6T 128; AA 581.
Archeological discoveries have thrown added light on the expression kuriakē hēmera. Papyri and inscriptions from the imperial period in Roman history found in Egypt and Asia Minor employ the word kuriakos (the masculine form of kuriakē) to the imperial treasury and the imperial service. This is understandable inasmuch as the Roman emperor was often called in Greek the kurios, “lord,” and consequently his treasury and service were the “lord’s treasury” and the “lord’s service.” Thus kuriakos was a familiar word in Roman official language for things pertaining to the emperor. One such inscription comes from as early as a.d. 68, so it is clear that this usage of kuriakos was current in John’s time
On this same inscription there appears a reference to a day named for the Empress Julia, or Livia, as she is better known.
On other inscriptions both from Egypt and Asia Minor, the term sebastē, the Greek equivalent of Augustus, frequently appears as the name of a day. Apparently these are references to special days honoring the emperor (see Deissmann, loc. cit.). Some have suggested that kuriakē hēmera, as used by John, also refers to an imperial day. This seems doubtful, however, for two reasons. First, although there were imperial days, and although the term keriakos was used for other things pertaining to the emperor, no instance of the word kuriakē as applied to an imperial day has yet been found. This is not a final proof, of course, for it is an argument from silence. However, the second point that may be raised against the identification of John’s kuriakē hēmera as an imperial day appears to be virtually conclusive. This is the fact that both the Jews in the 1st century (see Josephus War vii. 10. 1 [418, 419]) and the Christians, at least in the 2d (see Martyrdom of Polycarp 8), are known to have refused to call Caesar kurios, “lord.” It becomes extremely difficult to think, therefore, that John would have referred to an imperial day as the “Lord’s day,” especially at a time when he and his fellow Christians were being bitterly persecuted for refusing to worship the emperor (see pp. 721–723). It seems more likely that John chose the expression kuriakē hēmera for the Sabbath as a subtle means of proclaiming the fact that, as the emperor had special days devoted to his honor, so John’s Lord, for whose sake he now suffered, also had His day.
 

TMS

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Revelation 3:15-20
Do you think it is strange that the "Christian sabbath keeper" has determined that some of the law is to be kept but most of it is not to be kept. They say that the law is instruction on how to love and how to abstain from sin but yet they cut out most of those instructions.

Would you say that someone who professes Christ and yet works at some of the law but not all of it would be considered 'luke warm'? Why not go all out one way or the other? Be cold or hot. Keep all of the law or work at none of it and rely on Christ alone.

I suppose it must be partly the conundrum the legalist places themselves in. The impossibility of keeping every jot and tittle.

I know if I was a legalist I would be a full on, tent in the back yard, blood sprinkling on the mercy seat, legalist.

I suppose the Lord Jesus Christ delivered me from that.

Romans 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

We should serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Galatians 3:2-3
[SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Luke warm you claim is partly keeping the law but not fully. "Be cold or hot. Keep all of the law or work at none of it and rely on Christ alone."

Can it be that you rely on Christ alone and know that your own works are worthless to save yourself, and you also love the Lord and as a result you obey Him. Faith and works or faith that does work, like James 2 says.

Should i rely on Christs merits and continue to purposely sin and willingly sin because His grace will continue to cover me?
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

If it is a sin to break the law (including the sabbath), than i should try to obey the Lord. He is my righteousness and all good comes from Him but to know it is a sin and to continue in it is wrong.
Psa 51:2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
2Co_7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
Jas_4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Luke warm is to know what is right and to not do it or be half hearted about our commitment to God.
Partly for God and partly for ourselves, double minded, worldly and heavenly minded.



And when it comes to the law there is a difference between them, 10 were written by God on stone and the other laws were continually added to as they were needed and my way of knowing which laws apply today is to look at which laws were fulfilled at the cross. Jesus is the lamb and i don't need to continue to offer blood today because Jesus shed His.
 

MarcR

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You are funny. If you had anything you would take his post point by point and answer it. Since you don't, you attack the post, him, or what you think of him; please...
I simply don't consider him or you worth the time or effort I would expend by responding. When either of you make statements that might lead an ungrounded person astray I respond for their sake not yours.

I get enough likes for my posts to persuade me that many members find them worth reading.
 

laymen

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I simply don't consider him or you worth the time or effort I would expend by responding. When either of you make statements that might lead an ungrounded person astray I respond for their sake not yours.

I get enough likes for my posts to persuade me that many members find them worth reading.
then why do you still type stuff ????????? Just leave.
 

Magenta

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then why do you still type stuff ????????? Just leave.
That is inappropriate. Just because someone does not want to respond to one or two or however many posters is NO reason to tell them to leave, when there are hundreds of others to relate to.
 

MarcR

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then why do you still type stuff ????????? Just leave.
If you don't like what I say you can ignore it. I will be quite pleased to not have you cluttering my screen.
 

PS

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Praise GOD! Thanks for sentiment. Likewise for sure. Not at all. The only limitation is us and the work that we allow Him through Him to do in us. The New Covenant which is the Gospel is complete. His Spirit is given to us to complete the work, but Jesus' work is complete in and of it self. He has Purged us of our sins. We have been made vessels fit for Holy use; HIS Spirit. So let us walk in the Spirit and not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

New hearts and minds. Reconciled, beholding all things are new and of GOD.

HE in us and we in HIM that the world may believe. This is the point of it all. For people to want to become part of the Kingdom, the Body of Christ, the Temple of GOD they must be able to see it and experience it through GOD through us; this is the ministry of reconciliation.

There are quite a few prophecies not fulfilled yet.
In Context Jesus said He had not come to destroy (loosen down) but to fulfill (show it forth in its true meaning) Therefore Fulfill can not mean put an end to in respect to the Law, because in that sense it would be destroyed (loosen Down).

However He did fulfil quite a few prophecies.


To even further that point in respect to the law He said until heaven earth shall pass away not one jot or tittle shall pass from the Law until all is fulfilled (has become). All has not become and heaven and earth have not passed away.

Incidentally in respect to the end of verse 18. A literal translation looks something like this. Until all may be becoming.

Who is the all? The Law in us?

Back to what we are speaking. God has said, That HE would put The Commandments in our hearts and in our minds. He has said the word , Christ is in our hearts and in our mouths.

Which Commandments, What word? How much of Christ?

Obliviously it is not the judgements and those laws pertaining to when we sin. Christ took care of them and those laws instituted due to the Temple service.

Any Laws that made the nation of Israel stand out and separate from the surrounding nations is null and void also since we has been made one in Christ.

That leaves the Decalogue and those Laws contained in the Book of the Law that showed us what righteousness is. And that my friend would include the Sabbath.
Thank you for the response, just quickly, there are unfulfilled prophesies but they will come in due course. God may have rested from his work of creation, but He neither slumbers or sleeps. Christ's aim was to fulfill the law and provide the way of redemption by grace and not by law. One thing I think we need to do, is to start at the beginning i.e. the Old Testament and look forward to the New Testament and that glorious hope we have when all is fulfilled. Otherwise Christianity becomes Judaism, when I am sure it was the Messiahs wish for Jews to become Christians. Remember God never fails and there are many of us who believe scripture that tells us Jesus is "God with us" and as God never fails then those who cast doubt on Christ's finished work are casting doubt on God and that we must never do. Thanks.
 

MarcR

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I was trying to help you, you said you didn’t care but you keep Talking. Just saying.
What were you trying to help me with? I never would have guessed that was your intent!
 

laymen

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The sabbath is the sabbath. The only thing we have to do is remember it and praise him on that day.
 
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I'm am sorry, but are you putting evolution into the bible? Plus "One day is unto God a thousand years" so if we go by that, It doesn't mean 565 million, That's not only added to something God never explained, but it also contradicts itself, Nor does this disprove the Sabbath, It was still put in place, billions of years or not, Either way this isn't right, I don't understand where your coming from here, Maybe I'm misunderstanding,

But the reason these dates are so similar, as in all the different Ages lining up with the bible, is because Satan can't create he always counterfeits God's word.

But let's go back real quick, The bible is very specific It says "And the evening and Morning were the first day" Genesis 1:5,13,19,23,31

To have a day, the earth must spin and in doing so day and night happen, A day cannot take place in 100000 bazlillion years, Unless it states otherwise that "Days were longer then" were only going on conception and not the word of God, so nothing in what you say really makes since to me, Please explain,

Godbless.
 

stillness

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Walk trough the valley
Why do you sound like your jealous of the freedom we have in Christ? don't you have the same freedom? "If any man esteems a day above another, he should be fully convinced, if a man esteems every day alike he should be fully convinced also. I died wen I met Jesus: though I lived in shame for years yet understood that He is the eternal rest that I enter into and honor Him every day alike and do not hold a day of rest more important than another. If you chose to honor a day of rest above another you should also be convinced but if your going to be jealous of the freedom I have or of the freedom someone else has to hold a different day of rest than you, I am to let you be accursed with your jealousy as your punishment for spreading dictatorship in the church. But you are not spreading dictatorship, you are teaching people not to be a dictator like you, "Chose this day who you will serve," and "while it is called today, harden not your heart." "Whom the son sets free is free indeed." "Who are you to judge another man's servant, to his own Master he stands or falls."
 

laymen

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Why do you sound like your jealous of the freedom we have in Christ? don't you have the same freedom? "If any man esteems a day above another, he should be fully convinced, if a man esteems every day alike he should be fully convinced also. I died wen I met Jesus: though I lived in shame for years yet understood that He is the eternal rest that I enter into and honor Him every day alike and do not hold a day of rest more important than another. If you chose to honor a day of rest above another you should also be convinced but if your going to be jealous of the freedom I have or of the freedom someone else has to hold a different day of rest than you, I am to let you be accursed with your jealousy as your punishment for spreading dictatorship in the church. But you are not spreading dictatorship, you are teaching people not to be a dictator like you, "Chose this day who you will serve," and "while it is called today, harden not your heart." "Whom the son sets free is free indeed." "Who are you to judge another man's servant, to his own Master he stands or falls."
trolling? You put this in two threads.
 

lightbearer

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That is inappropriate. Just because someone does not want to respond to one or two or however many posters is NO reason to tell them to leave, when there are hundreds of others to relate to.
You are mistaken. Not responding would be not responding. To post random scriptures to said posters' posts without expounding and then make trolling comments about a poster is responding to poster.
 

beta

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If you don't see it, You won't see it. No point in wasting my time.

Gal 1:8-9
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
KJV


E.G. White doesn't get away with bringing a false gospel just because she was female.
ANYONE whose interest is in the LORD will follow HIM and not a HUMAN preacher. It does not say much for them,... whether male or female are their teachers.
GOD says 'keep the Sabbath holy....
as do all who obey and follow HIM ! and those who don't 'to the Lord they don't keep it ! anyone who ''esteems a different day from the Lord just 'keeps it for HIMSELF....deceiving himself it's for the Lord !!! NO MAN has ever been given authority to choose/set his own holy day over and above GOD !!!
The whole world is DECEIVED and MANY are on the road to destruction , it's all in scripture !....what more needs to be said ???
 

beta

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Yep unrepent sinner go to lake of fire, to tell unsabbat observance go to hell is unrepent.

Every day a like is repent.
I don't think there are any restrictions on which day you repent..no Sir, you can repent any day.....but keeping the SABBATH DAY holy is definitely a GIVEN TIME to spend with GOD...personal and intimate !!!
 

lightbearer

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Originally Posted by MarcR

Acts 15:24-29
...29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
KJV

Note that no mention of Sabbath keeping is included.


No mention of any of the Ten Commandments. To assert any of them is to assume. These are all from the Book of the Law. The Ten Commandments are not in question here. According to the context of the chapter Circumcision and the Book of the Law are.

But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. For (because) Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
(Act 15:20-21)


A few things should be noted from the above text. First and foremost, the new converts are being commanded to abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

These Laws are Dietary health and Moral laws from the Book of the Law (Moses).

Second thing to note is verse 21 starts with the word "for". This word means that what comes after it is the reason for what was previously stated.

In other words let's not over burden them they will get what they need, because Moses (the Book of the Law) is read every Sabbath Day in the synagogues where and when they meet.

If any thing these verses prove they were meeting on and therefore keeping the Sabbath and that some of the Laws from the Book of the Law are still part of a Christian's life through the indwelling Christ.



Rom 14:4-6
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
KJV

No mention of the Sabbath Day here. Don't assume what is not there.


Col 2:16-17
6 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
KJV

Verse 14 reads the handwriting to the ordinances that were against us; not the handwriting of ordinances. The Decalogue is of the Ordinances, not the handwriting to the ordinances. The Ordinances are the Decalogue and the Commandments and Statutes contained in the Book of the Law that pertained to righteousness. These are they which let us know what sin is. These Were not against us. The Judgements and Statutes that related to when we sin are.

And having spoiled (stripping off) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Through Christ there is no need for the principalities and powers; the handwriting to the ordinances contained in the Book of the Law that were mandated due to our sinning because through Jesus we do not need them. They condemned us due to our sinning. We now have victory over sin through Christ. And if we do sin we have an Advocate (Helper) toward the Father; Jesus Christ!

The Ten Commandments are not against us only the statutes and judgement in the Book of the Law in relation to when we sin were.

Take this Book of the Law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

(Deu 31:26 KJV)

Mind you it was the judgements that were against us not those Laws to which showed us our sin. Colossians needs to be understood correctly. Ordinances would be any Law contained there in that dealt with our Spiritual and physical well being. Not all that Moses penned was against us. Not all was judgements (cursing)

For GOD has said, I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
(Deu 30:19-20 KJV)

Blessings and cursings were contained in the Book of the Law. Obviously the blessings are not against us only the cursings in relation to when we sin are.
 
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mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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Agreed.

And to those observing the shabbat, how many are actually ceasing from everything?

The jews have so many restrictions, such as no travel or use of electricity even on shabbat, to name a couple. So no logging on to CC either :p
Amen! Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant.

*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Even when Sabbatarians set out to worship on the Sabbath, are they truly "keeping the Sabbath?" To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the Old Covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.

If Sabbath day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place (no traveling) on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19).

These were commanded by God to Israel (Exodus 35:1).

If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why do not the Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person keep a certain law when he keeps only part of it?

If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.

Who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh day Adventist church? The Government? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the Old Covenant, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.