Not By Works

[Isny]

In today's Wall Street Journal (2/24/18), there is an article in the opinion section page A13 about Billy Graham written by Peggy Noonan. She quotes Billy Graham:
"I'm not important, God is important....I am not going to Heaven because I have preached to great crowds (works)......

"I am going to Heaven just like the thief on the cross who said in that moment, Lord, remember me. And Christ said: This day you will be with me in Paradise".

 

[dcontroversal]

The church is the Body of Christ, those called out. The Body of Christ is made up of people who have agreed with God about their condition as sinners in need of salvation. Anyone who goes to what we call "church" is a sinner, falling into one of two categories: saved, and unsaved (those who have repented and confessed their need of God, and those who have not).

Not to mention that believers that assemble make up a church......and any day is acceptable......

 

[dcontroversal]

This thread seems to be the only one to respond to at the moment. Of course, the "laugh" thread is one of my favs. There are several threads pertaining to the same thing except just worded different in the title.

Oh well. This thread has plenty to respond to, lolol

yes indeed......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I did the same thing. Been through enough with him and now I will do ignore on some others I'm sure.

It is better not to give them an audience, They just soak it in, and it empowers them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

i dont block all the people in error who twist scripture...
it could be a sheep in need of light

honestly i usually try my best to speak with them and help

but when they lie
manipulate
twist words
and just have this dishonest condescending approach making straw man after straw man...

ill place them on ignore

"give not that which is holy unto the dogs neither cast your pearls before swine lest they trample them under their feet and turn again and rend you"

Amen, We do not just ignore people who do nto believe as we do. It is people who have agendas and continue to lie and slander others and continue to pull the same nonsense. They have no desire to discuss the word. They just wish to push their word on you, and make you someone you are not.

 

[ElAmor]

I agree.....just an attempt to derail....more law abiding works that = ignorance

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

Another day.........and the gospel is still the same....Jesus went to the cross of Calvary to pay for the sins of the whole world....he was in the tomb three days and nights and (ana-stasis) stood again for our justification.

ALL who exercise saving faith into the work of Christ will have your sin debt covered, the imputed righteousness of Christ which = saved, sealed, justified and sanctified in Christ eternally.

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he SAVED US (past tense)

Trust JESUS...believe the gospel of salvation.....it is based entirely upon faith with NO STRINGS attached, regardless of those who attempt to embellish it or top it off with works and some sort of sinless perfectionism.

ElAmor

What do you mean by "exercise" isn't it to practice and not just say and claim or just a lip service? Do you preach about a genuine saving Faith without doing anything? Is preaching not a work? Assuming that Faith alone saves, can a person have Faith and be saved without someone preaching to them the Gospel of salvation?

If you are a preacher, can you say that you are not doing a work? If it is so then what are you doing? Is preaching the Gospel of our salvation irrelevant or unnecessary to our salvation? Does it embellish or add anything to your Faith ALONE doctrine?

dcon’s reply;

Take 1 second and actually think about and ponder what this thread is about.....serious.....it is about HOW ONE IS SAVED not WHAT THEY DO AFTER THEY ARE SAVED.....it IS FAITH ALONE THAT SAVES.....end of story........!

ElAmor

If “ Faith ALONE" saves, can one have faith without hearing the message? The verses below proves that a work is needed and essential to salvation….PREACHING.

It is not of ourselves that we may not boast.( ephesians 2:8-9 ) A Faith that works in Love.( galatians 5:6 ) A “selfless LOVE" that thinks about the welfare and SALVATION OF OTHERS and not just his own interests.( philippians 2:3-4, 1 john 3:16-18 )

Romans 10:14-17 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And HOW CAN THEY HEAR WITHOUT SOMEONE PREACHING TO THEM? And how can they preach UNLESS THEY ARE SENT? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” Consequently, FAITH COMES FROM HEARING THE MESSAGE, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.

2 John 1:4-11 It has given me great joy to find some of your children WALKING IN THE TRUTH, just as the Father COMMANDED US. And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had FROM THE BEGINNING. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE. Many DECEIVERS, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as COMING IN THE FLESH, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the DECEIVER and the ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who RUNS AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE in the TEACHING OF CHRIST does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him SHARES IN HIS WICKED WORK.

Who are those RUNNING AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE IN THE TEACHING OF CHRIST?

They are those who CLAIM SALVATION is by Faith ALONE and ONCE SAVED they are ALWAYS SAVED therefore rejecting God’s Laws and commands which are in fact God’s own words, who says that even obedience to God cannot save anyone because they are works and Faith ALONE saves.

Who then is the deceiver and the ANTICHRIST?

They are those who do not continue in the teaching about WALKING IN LOVE which is WALKING IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. Who do not acknowledge Jesus as coming in the flesh by the mere fact that they reject the LAW that prophesied about Jesus as coming in the flesh.

1 John 2:1-6 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. THE MAN WHO SAYS, “I KNOW HIM,” BUT DOES NOT DO WHAT HE COMMANDS IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him MUST WALK AS JESUS DID.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Who then is the deceiver and the ANTICHRIST?

anyone who points to something other than Christ to save


including works


(also anyone against Jesus in general)

 

[NoNameMcgee]

john9
35Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him,*Dost thou believe on the Son of God?

36He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?

37And Jesus said unto him,*Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.

38And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.

39And Jesus said,*For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

40And*some*of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?

41Jesus said unto them,*If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

john 10



1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

3To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

6This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.

7Then said Jesus unto them again,*Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.


* sigh *

 

[ElAmor]

Amen, We do not just ignore people who do nto believe as we do. It is people who have agendas and continue to lie and slander others and continue to pull the same nonsense. They have no desire to discuss the word. They just wish to push their word on you, and make you someone you are not.

New International Version 1984 Romans 2:1-11 God’s Righteous Judgment You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance? But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.

 

[ElAmor]

anyone who points to something other than Christ to save


including works


(also anyone against Jesus in general)

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

Another day.........and the gospel is still the same....Jesus went to the cross of Calvary to pay for the sins of the whole world....he was in the tomb three days and nights and (ana-stasis) stood again for our justification.

ALL who exercise saving faith into the work of Christ will have your sin debt covered, the imputed righteousness of Christ which = saved, sealed, justified and sanctified in Christ eternally.

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he SAVED US (past tense)

Trust JESUS...believe the gospel of salvation.....it is based entirely upon faith with NO STRINGS attached, regardless of those who attempt to embellish it or top it off with works and some sort of sinless perfectionism.

ElAmor

What do you mean by "exercise" isn't it to practice and not just say and claim or just a lip service? Do you preach about a genuine saving Faith without doing anything? Is preaching not a work? Assuming that Faith alone saves, can a person have Faith and be saved without someone preaching to them the Gospel of salvation?

If you are a preacher, can you say that you are not doing a work? If it is so then what are you doing? Is preaching the Gospel of our salvation irrelevant or unnecessary to our salvation? Does it embellish or add anything to your Faith ALONE doctrine?

dcon’s reply;

Take 1 second and actually think about and ponder what this thread is about.....serious.....it is about HOW ONE IS SAVED not WHAT THEY DO AFTER THEY ARE SAVED.....it IS FAITH ALONE THAT SAVES.....end of story........!

ElAmor

If “ Faith ALONE" saves, can one have faith without hearing the message? The verses below proves that a work is needed and essential to salvation….PREACHING.

It is not of ourselves that we may not boast.( ephesians 2:8-9 ) A Faith that works in Love.( galatians 5:6 ) A “selfless LOVE" that thinks about the welfare and SALVATION OF OTHERS and not just his own interests.( philippians 2:3-4, 1 john 3:16-18 )

Romans 10:14-17 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And HOW CAN THEY HEAR WITHOUT SOMEONE PREACHING TO THEM? And how can they preach UNLESS THEY ARE SENT? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” Consequently, FAITH COMES FROM HEARING THE MESSAGE, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.

2 John 1:4-11 It has given me great joy to find some of your children WALKING IN THE TRUTH, just as the Father COMMANDED US. And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had FROM THE BEGINNING. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE. Many DECEIVERS, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as COMING IN THE FLESH, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the DECEIVER and the ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who RUNS AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE in the TEACHING OF CHRIST does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him SHARES IN HIS WICKED WORK.

Who are those RUNNING AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE IN THE TEACHING OF CHRIST?

They are those who CLAIM SALVATION is by Faith ALONE and ONCE SAVED they are ALWAYS SAVED therefore rejecting God’s Laws and commands which are in fact God’s own words, who says that even obedience to God cannot save anyone because they are works and Faith ALONE saves.

Who then is the deceiver and the ANTICHRIST?

They are those who do not continue in the teaching about WALKING IN LOVE which is WALKING IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. Who do not acknowledge Jesus as coming in the flesh by the mere fact that they reject the LAW that prophesied about Jesus as coming in the flesh.

1 John 2:1-6 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. THE MAN WHO SAYS, “I KNOW HIM,” BUT DOES NOT DO WHAT HE COMMANDS IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him MUST WALK AS JESUS DID.

"Don't just talk but WALK the talk"

 

[NoNameMcgee]

says the hypocrite calling children of God "zombies"


elamor

take the giant log out of your eye

because you cannot see clearly to remove any specs or splinters from anothers eye


you post verses out of context left and right

you hate reproof
and point to works over Jesus

stop it

repent

and pray for God to remove those itching self righteous ears of yours

 

[BillG]

How honest are people?

If one holds to "free grace" theology, why not just declare it.
Saying someone is lying or deceived or evil because they disagree with "free grace" is a given.
Every theological position has its answers to obvious verses and ideas that contradict.

Within ones understanding one can look at these questions and debate them, but unless one
is willing to concede with a good heart you can hold both positions, it becomes a little futile.

And the irony is, inherent within some positions, one does not have a good heart, and has known
unresolved sin, but that is ok, because sin does not need to be resolved or worked through.

As long as believers hold to this level of impurity, as a given, I have nothing left to say, than
grace be unto you, until you find purity you will never see God.

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Matt 5:8

I hope you understand this is not a command, because we cannot chose to be pure in
heart, we can though submit to purification through repentance, confession and faith in
the cross, working through our emotions and responses and letting love reign.

How honest are we?

Would I be honest with you?
Why would I?

Give me a reason why I would want to be honest with you.

Anyone here.
Give me a reason why I would want to be honest with you.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

the belief born again believers can lose or reclaim their salvation based on what they do should be called

"flimsy grace theology"

from the church of "do it yourself"

bump for those who believe in a weak and incomplete sacrifice

 

[NoNameMcgee]

How honest are we?

Would I be honest with you?
Why would I?

Give me a reason why I would want to be honest with you.

Anyone here.
Give me a reason why I would want to be honest with you.

because you love me

because God has given you a new heart that craves honesty over lies and deception

 

[BillG]

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

Another day.........and the gospel is still the same....Jesus went to the cross of Calvary to pay for the sins of the whole world....he was in the tomb three days and nights and (ana-stasis) stood again for our justification.

ALL who exercise saving faith into the work of Christ will have your sin debt covered, the imputed righteousness of Christ which = saved, sealed, justified and sanctified in Christ eternally.

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he SAVED US (past tense)

Trust JESUS...believe the gospel of salvation.....it is based entirely upon faith with NO STRINGS attached, regardless of those who attempt to embellish it or top it off with works and some sort of sinless perfectionism.

ElAmor

What do you mean by "exercise" isn't it to practice and not just say and claim or just a lip service? Do you preach about a genuine saving Faith without doing anything? Is preaching not a work? Assuming that Faith alone saves, can a person have Faith and be saved without someone preaching to them the Gospel of salvation?

If you are a preacher, can you say that you are not doing a work? If it is so then what are you doing? Is preaching the Gospel of our salvation irrelevant or unnecessary to our salvation? Does it embellish or add anything to your Faith ALONE doctrine?

dcon’s reply;

Take 1 second and actually think about and ponder what this thread is about.....serious.....it is about HOW ONE IS SAVED not WHAT THEY DO AFTER THEY ARE SAVED.....it IS FAITH ALONE THAT SAVES.....end of story........!

ElAmor

If “ Faith ALONE" saves, can one have faith without hearing the message? The verses below proves that a work is needed and essential to salvation….PREACHING.

It is not of ourselves that we may not boast.( ephesians 2:8-9 ) A Faith that works in Love.( galatians 5:6 ) A “selfless LOVE" that thinks about the welfare and SALVATION OF OTHERS and not just his own interests.( philippians 2:3-4, 1 john 3:16-18 )

Romans 10:14-17 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And HOW CAN THEY HEAR WITHOUT SOMEONE PREACHING TO THEM? And how can they preach UNLESS THEY ARE SENT? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” Consequently, FAITH COMES FROM HEARING THE MESSAGE, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.

2 John 1:4-11 It has given me great joy to find some of your children WALKING IN THE TRUTH, just as the Father COMMANDED US. And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had FROM THE BEGINNING. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE. Many DECEIVERS, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as COMING IN THE FLESH, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the DECEIVER and the ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who RUNS AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE in the TEACHING OF CHRIST does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him SHARES IN HIS WICKED WORK.

Who are those RUNNING AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE IN THE TEACHING OF CHRIST?

They are those who CLAIM SALVATION is by Faith ALONE and ONCE SAVED they are ALWAYS SAVED therefore rejecting God’s Laws and commands which are in fact God’s own words, who says that even obedience to God cannot save anyone because they are works and Faith ALONE saves.

Who then is the deceiver and the ANTICHRIST?

They are those who do not continue in the teaching about WALKING IN LOVE which is WALKING IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. Who do not acknowledge Jesus as coming in the flesh by the mere fact that they reject the LAW that prophesied about Jesus as coming in the flesh.

1 John 2:1-6 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. THE MAN WHO SAYS, “I KNOW HIM,” BUT DOES NOT DO WHAT HE COMMANDS IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him MUST WALK AS JESUS DID.

"Don't just talk but WALK the talk"

You totally miss the point of what DC is saying.
I'm sure he will correct me if I'm wrong.

Faith saves and works will follow.

Obedience and sanctification will ensue.

The essential thing is that faith saves that's essential to salvation.
Works do not save but Works will follow.

DC has never said anything different.

 

[BillG]

because you love me

because God has given you a new heart that craves honesty over lies and deception

Reciprocated.

 

[Budman]

Reciprocated.

I'm feeling all warm and gooey inside!


....wait....it could be the tacos I ate.

 

[dcontroversal]

anyone who points to something other than Christ to save


including works


(also anyone against Jesus in general)

Amen......more Catholic dogma from the parrot........

 

[ElAmor]

says the hypocrite calling children of God "zombies"


elamor

take the giant log out of your eye

because you cannot see clearly to remove any specs or splinters from anothers eye


you post verses out of context left and right

you hate reproof
and point to works over Jesus

stop it

repent

and pray for God to remove those itching self righteous ears of yours

Philippians 2:1-11 Imitating Christ’s Humility If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose. Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death— even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Galatians 5:7-15 You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth? That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. “A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.” I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion will pay the penalty, whoever he may be. Brothers, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves! You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

2 Timothy 4:1-5 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”

 

[dcontroversal]

How honest are we?

Would I be honest with you?
Why would I?

Give me a reason why I would want to be honest with you.

Anyone here.
Give me a reason why I would want to be honest with you.

We trust you Bill....it seems to be the workers for, sinless perfectionists and those holding to catholic dogma that cannot help but twist, embellish, change what we say while being dishonest.... ..