DIETARY LAWS: Why and when were they established?

laymen · Feb 24, 2018

Act 10:28 “...[FONT=&quot]but God hath shewed me”...
[/FONT]what did God show him?

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Act 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

why did God use food as the teaching device here?

Act 10:10 And he became very hungry,

thats what he had on his mind , much like the woman at the well. She forgot about the water she came to get and found Jesus the living water.

If he is so hungry why then did he say :[/FONT]Act 10:14 [FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.?

Because he believed in the word of God being his food better than anything unclean. Even when hungry.

Cornelius was praying to God to send some one to teach them but it was unlawful for Jew to be with another nation. Act 10:21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?Act 10:22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

Act 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

God came to save thoughs who were not Jews that’s what most of the NT is about the good news going to the rest of the word. If anything the rest of the world was asked to follow part of lev 11 Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Why was it necessary? It was for heath same reason today “you do well”. The only part of the law taken out of the lime light here is the laws concerning temple rituals and thing that only makes you a Jew on the out side . Because here again the Good new is for all the world not just Jews.

They Would hear the law read to them on the sabbath so to get them started They were going to learn it all later. God cares about heath too. If he says don’t eat it Don’t think you can now eat it.

Also so take a look at the USA Navy hand book on how to servie when you go over board or ship reck. They follow almost all the laws found in Lev 11. It’s sicence just now catching up to the Bible about what to eat and not eat.

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PS · Feb 24, 2018

lightbearer said:

And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. (Act 10:15 KJV)

And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean. (Act 10:28 KJV)

No, it is not the translation that is bad, read what Albert Barnes has to say on Acts 10:15

What God hath cleansed -
What God has pronounced or declared pure. If God has commanded you to do a thing, it is not impure or wrong. Perhaps Peter would suppose that the design of this vision was to instruct him that the distinction between clean and unclean food, as recognized by the Jews, was about to be abolished, Act_10:17. But the result showed that it had a higher and more important design. It was to show him that they who had been esteemed by the Jews as unclean or profane - the entire Gentile world - might now be admitted to similar privileges with the Jews.

That barrier was robe broken down, and the whole world was to be admitted to the same fellowship and privileges in the gospel. See Eph_2:14; Gal_3:28. It was also true that the ceremonial laws of the Jews in regard to clean and unclean beasts was to pass away, though this was not directly taught in this vision.

But when once the barrier was removed that separated the Jews and Gentiles, all the laws which were founded on such a distinction, and which were framed to keep up such a distinction, passed away of course. The ceremonial laws of the Jews were designed solely to keep up the distinction between them and other nations. When the distinction was abolished; when other nations were to be admitted to the same privileges, the laws which were made to keep up such a difference received their death-blow, and expired of course. For it is a maxim of all law, that when the reason why a law was made ceases to exist, the law becomes obsolete. Yet it was not easy to convince the Jews that their laws ceased to be binding. This point the apostles labored to establish; and from this point arose most of the difficulties between the Jewish and Gentile converts to Christianity. See Acts 15; and Rom. 14–15:

laymen · Feb 24, 2018

PS said:

And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. (Act 10:15 KJV)

And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean. (Act 10:28 KJV)

No, it is not the translation that is bad, read what Albert Barnes has to say on Acts 10:15

What God hath cleansed -
What God has pronounced or declared pure. If God has commanded you to do a thing, it is not impure or wrong. Perhaps Peter would suppose that the design of this vision was to instruct him that the distinction between clean and unclean food, as recognized by the Jews, was about to be abolished, Act_10:17. But the result showed that it had a higher and more important design. It was to show him that they who had been esteemed by the Jews as unclean or profane - the entire Gentile world - might now be admitted to similar privileges with the Jews.

That barrier was robe broken down, and the whole world was to be admitted to the same fellowship and privileges in the gospel. See Eph_2:14; Gal_3:28. It was also true that the ceremonial laws of the Jews in regard to clean and unclean beasts was to pass away, though this was not directly taught in this vision.

But when once the barrier was removed that separated the Jews and Gentiles, all the laws which were founded on such a distinction, and which were framed to keep up such a distinction, passed away of course. The ceremonial laws of the Jews were designed solely to keep up the distinction between them and other nations. When the distinction was abolished; when other nations were to be admitted to the same privileges, the laws which were made to keep up such a difference received their death-blow, and expired of course. For it is a maxim of all law, that when the reason why a law was made ceases to exist, the law becomes obsolete. Yet it was not easy to convince the Jews that their laws ceased to be binding. This point the apostles labored to establish; and from this point arose most of the difficulties between the Jewish and Gentile converts to Christianity. See Acts 15; and Rom. 14–15:

ct 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessarythings;Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Why was it necessary? It was for heath same reason today “you do well”. The only part of the law taken out of the lime light here is the laws concerning temple rituals and thing that only makes you a Jew on the out side . Because here again the Good new is for all the world not just Jews. Don’t look like it’s being done away with here.

Deade · Feb 25, 2018

Ariel82 said:

Just have three questions:

1. If someone doesn't keep a Kosher diet would you condemn them in your hearts as sinners? No, I didn't say it was sinful: I said it was for our health.
2. Would you believe they need to repent? No, no sin no repentance.

3. Would you blame any illness they have on what you perceive as their sin? No, that would be passing judgement.

PS · Feb 25, 2018

laymen said:

Read it again. The apostles are speaking to the Gentile Christians and are saying DO NOT eat meats offered to idols etc.

That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. (Act 15:29 KJV)

What were the Jews doing anyway, participating in idol worship! They were a bunch of pagans. Are you Jewish? If you are get out of it.

laymen · Feb 25, 2018

PS said:

Read it again. The apostles are speaking to the Gentile Christians and are saying DO NOT eat meats offered to idols etc.

That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. (Act 15:29 KJV)

What were the Jews doing anyway, participating in idol worship! They were a bunch of pagans. Are you Jewish? If you are get out of it.

???? Sure u might want to read my post again you seem lost.

PS · Feb 25, 2018

laymen said:

Then clarify it. And quote the same verse you used to make your point and I will clarify it for you.

MarcR · Feb 25, 2018

PS said:

I basically agree with you. However, after the return from Babylon, idolatry pretty much ceased to be a problem in Israel. The primary problems Jesus had with the Jewish leadership were oppressive legalism, and political ambition.

laymen · Feb 25, 2018

PS said:

Lev 17:10 [FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people.

Lev 17:12 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.
Lev 17:13 And whatsoever man there be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, which hunteth and catcheth any beast or fowl that may be eaten; he shall even pour out the blood thereof, and cover it with dust.

its taken from lev
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PS · Feb 25, 2018

MarcR said:

You are right as far as it goes, but you know, the problems the Pharisees and others had with Jesus are still there among the Jews, and so is the idolatry, but this time in the form of money...

PS · Feb 25, 2018

laymen said:

O.K. This is where it gets complicated so bear with me. There are several issues at stake here.

First, as I said at the beginning of the thread, there was a very good reason for the health laws in the OT. But the verse you quoted was about eating food that had been offered to idols, and idol worship is an other issue altogether. Now then, blood is an excellent fertiliser and we use blood-meal today, on the ground and given the choice as to whether I drink a pint of blood or spread it on the ground, I would go for the latter as being the most beneficial, not just to me, but for other people as well, so everyone benefits from the crops. Beside which I just do not like the thought of eating black pudding at all.

The verses you quote are why Jehovah Witnesses refuse blood transfusions, now first of all Christians are not under the law. Jehovah Witnesses say the same, they say that as Christians (what!) we are under the "Law of the Christ."-(Galatians 6:2) According to the Bible, the Mosaic Law, with it's dietary restrictions, was "nailed to the stake"(Colossians 2:13,14) along with Jesus, when he sacrificed his life for all those exercising faith in him. So the Bible also says: "Christ is the end of the Law."-(Romans 10:4; 6:14) Therefore, JW's do not practice the Mosaic Law which includes these dietary restrictions."
Do Jehovah...ods if not why

But they still hold to the law on blood when it comes to blood transfusions, how hypercritical is that! And because of their hypocrisy thousands have died needlessly. (Bad, very bad.)

Anyway, to sum up, I would say to you, to forget the 613 Mitzvot laws, and follow the Commandments of Jesus which include the Ten Commandments given to Moses including the fourth one about keeping one day of the week holy, whether or not it falls on the Jewish Sabbath, is irrelevant to me. I prefer to worship a risen Christ.

Now, what were you saying again?

Footnote, the link I gave has changed, sorry, it was there about ten years ago.

lightbearer · Feb 25, 2018

PS said:

Yes PS the ISV is a bad translation in this instance. Not sure why you are now posting from the KJV to prove your point. But anyway; in verse 15 the ISV has the word for common translated unclean. They are two different words with two different meanings in the Greek and in the English.

No Peter would had been focusing on the words of the LORD. His mind would have been centered on the answer given already. There is a difference between what is considered common and what is considered unclean. As stated earlier in one of the posts I asked you to read. Peter is making a difference in what he is seeing in the vision between the common and unclean when he says, "I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

The word "or" is ay in the Greek. It is a primary particle used to make a distinction between two connected terms. In other words the common and unclean are not the same.

Barnes is interjecting his beliefs. Which in this case he is wrong. There is no proof of this whatsoever from Acts indirectly or directly. It is written, "What GOD has cleansed call not thou common" Not what GOD has cleansed call not common or unclean.

Amen!

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

(Gal 3:28; Eph 4:4-6, 5:27,30-32 KJV)

PS · Feb 25, 2018

lightbearer said:

Yes PS the ISV is a bad translation in this instance. Not sure why you are now posting from the KJV to prove your point. But anyway; in verse 15 the ISV has the word for common translated unclean. They are two different words with two different meanings in the Greek and in the English.

No Peter would had been focusing on the words of the LORD. His mind would have been centered on the answer given already. There is a difference between what is considered common and what is considered unclean. As stated earlier in one of the posts I asked you to read. Peter is making a difference in what he is seeing in the vision between the common and unclean when he says, "I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

The word "or" is ay in the Greek. It is a primary particle used to make a distinction between two connected terms. In other words the common and unclean are not the same.

Barnes is interjecting his beliefs. Which in this case he is wrong. There is no proof of this whatsoever from Acts indirectly or directly. It is written, "What GOD has cleansed call not thou common" Not what GOD has cleansed call not common or unclean.

Amen!

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

(Gal 3:28; Eph 4:4-6, 5:27,30-32 KJV)

To be honest, I don't know what you are going on about.

lightbearer · Feb 25, 2018

laymen said:

Thanks brother layman, Nice post. Do you have access to this handbook? I can't find it on the net to share it.

lightbearer · Feb 25, 2018

Originally Posted by lightbearer

Yes PS the ISV is a bad translation in this instance. Not sure why you are now posting from the KJV to prove your point. But anyway; in verse 15 the ISV has the word for common translated unclean. They are two different words with two different meanings in the Greek and in the English.

No Peter would had been focusing on the words of the LORD. His mind would have been centered on the answer given already. There is a difference between what is considered common and what is considered unclean. As stated earlier in one of the posts I asked you to read. Peter is making a difference in what he is seeing in the vision between the common and unclean when he says, "I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

The word "or" is ay in the Greek. It is a primary particle used to make a distinction between two connected terms. In other words the common and unclean are not the same.

Barnes is interjecting his beliefs. Which in this case he is wrong. There is no proof of this whatsoever from Acts indirectly or directly. It is written, "What GOD has cleansed call not thou common" Not what GOD has cleansed call not common or unclean.

Amen!

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

(Gal 3:28; Eph 4:4-6, 5:27,30-32 KJV)

PS said:

What don't you understand?

PS · Feb 25, 2018

lightbearer said:

The debate was about clean and unclean. You seem to have drifted off the point and were fault finding about something Albert Barnes said. Just to get back to the debate that included clean and unclean people, i.e. Jew and Gentile my thoughts are that there is no difference in the sight of God between Jew or Gentile other than our faith in Him.

garee · Feb 25, 2018

Deade said:

I would offer. I think it has do again in respect to parables . The law of parables. Without parables the word of God speaks not, hiding the spiritual understanding from natural man (666) beast of the field. Formed from dust. Revealed as spiritual words to those born again. Therefore comparing spiritual things not seen with spiritual.(faith to faith)

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 1Co 2:9

They are used in governing ceremonies to present the gospel of Christ in respect to the suffering of the lamb of God beforehand and the promised glory that did follow, the graves of the old testament saints were opened .Marking the beginning of the first resurrection. .

Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. 1Pe 1:8

A good example of eating the kind of foods not seen that disciples knew not of is given in exodus using the parable that represent salvation (By strength of hand the LORD brought us out from Egypt, from the house of bondage)

The gospel reads...

Note.....(purple in parenthesis) my addition comment

And thou shalt shew thy son in that day, saying, This is done because of that which the LORD did unto me when I came forth out of Egypt.And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, (hand and forehead represent the unseen will)that the LORD's law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from year to year.And it shall be when the LORD shall bring thee into the land of the Canaanites, as he sware unto thee and to thy fathers, and shall give it thee, That thou shalt set apart unto the LORD all that openeth the matrix, and every firstling that cometh of a beast which thou hast; the males shall be the LORD's. And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem. And it shall be when thy son asketh thee in time to come, saying, What is this? that thou shalt say unto him, By strength of hand the LORD brought us out from Egypt, from the house of bondage: Exo 13:8

The work of faith in action....

And when the ass saw the angel of the LORD, she fell down under Balaam: and Balaam's anger was kindled, and he smote the ass with a staff.And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times? Num 22:27

Just as the father of lies who has no form used a creature to lure men away from faith. God shows he can use a unbeliever to bring his gospel . Its what he rode on coming to finish the work of redeeming mankind as the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world.showing us he alone is the redeemer. No credit goes to the Ass.

And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.Joh 12:14

Ass's colt. as one redeemed by the lamb, the clean animal.

Deade · Feb 25, 2018

PS said:

So you are saying God gave the ancient Israelites the clean and unclean ordinances just to make life difficult for them. To sustain from fat and blood [as post #91] was also just test commands. I don't buy it.

TMS · Feb 25, 2018

Like i've said.......... if you can work out the reason for God giving these laws about diet, you can make a logical choice as to why you don't or do keep them today.

TMS · Feb 25, 2018

I can see a few reasons, some are symbolic and spiritual but when you look at the science of the clean and unclean, look at the logic for some animals being good to eat and others not good to eat you have to conclude that God gave these laws for the peoples health.

If the main reason is for health than you can choose to pollute the temple of God or put what is clean into the Temple of the Holy Spirit.

1Co_3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
1Co_6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

DIETARY LAWS: Why and when were they established?

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