Should teachers in the US be armed?

[AdolfHipster]

 

[Anne_81]

I think the evidence you're seeking is historical at this point, as there is no contemporary evidence. Unfortunately, the government rarely allows real-world trials for things like this. We are only now finding out that Marijuana legalization doesn't really have any negative impact on communities, when people have been insisting that it wouldn't have any real negative impacts since it was criminalized. The closest we could come to actual evidence for the effectiveness of libertarian ideas are logical theories with real-world examples. You could try a "red team" approach and imagine trying to infiltrate a room full of just 10 armed people as a mass-shooter, or to make the idea more libertarian, a gun show. If you have ever played a projectile-based combat game such as paintball or airsoft, you should understand that the number of armed bodies really make a difference, even if those bodies are fairly untrained in terms of combatives.

I haven't really followed your conversation with hortnetguy, but I can see that you are getting a little frustrated. What is your conversation about? Everyone who has been talking to me stops after my first response when I make a point and it is getting a little frustrating.

I am frustrated with people that are not able to read, let alone put together a coherent argument,
or otherwise are in bad faith.

I do not think the "combat game" example is very useful. It is true, in some cases the presence of armed personnel
might reduce the number of casualties. However the increased number of guns in schools will increase the number of accidents.

Accidental gun accidents are already at tragic proportions
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use/

 

[HeraldtheNews]

Yes, armed with the Word of God!

There you go!! Can't overcome the sword of truth!!

 

[Anne_81]

[/LIST]
She is frustrated because she keeps asking for data which does not exist. She asks for data showing that arming teachers will help prevent this from happening. I (and a couple of other folks) have told her several times that the data does not exist, because nobody in the US has armed any teachers until very recently. I even gave her the one school in north Texas that has armed some of their teachers, but the only "data" we have from that is that there have been no shootings there. Even being pro-gun, I'm not willing to say that is convincing data.... but, at this point it is ALL THE DATA WE HAVE. (I said that loudly for the slow-on-the-uptake Anne )

Repeatedly asking for something that does not exist, somehow expecting someone to give it to you, is a classic example of "the definition of insanity".... doing something the same way time after time, but expecting different results.

Sorry, given that there were strong proponents of giving guns to schools, I thought their opinions were based
on actual facts. You are right, I should be less naive..

 

[HeraldtheNews]

Do you use regular or heavy-duty foil for your hats?

I know a guy who wears a foil hat-- never asked him why; there's so much cell-phone radiation flying around, it probably wouldn't help much. And, if you want to get technical-- almost every conceivable technological spy-weapon/device seen in sci-fi/spy movies, is now likely possible... sorry to say--

so, probably a heavy-duty foil hat with some lead mesh, would be the way to go--

 

[Anne_81]

​ Do you realize how condescending that is? I don't have children,but I do have two nephews that I love as my own children. Its incredibly insensitive of you to make it look like you are the only person here that cares about the lives of children. So far all I've heard is you restating your own opinion. You keep talking about science but have no proof to back up your own claims and bias.Then you turn around and trash people for giving their opinion. smh.





Says the person that copy/pastes from Wikipedia.





So we can never make a change or come to a solution because we don't know whether the outcome is positive? How do we know taking guns away will be the right solution? Science hasn't backed that up. In fact the opposite has shown to be true. People are screaming for a solution and then when several are proposed "we can't do that because it doesn't back my opinion".

Well at least you admit it may be part of the problem.



Have you ever been in an active shooter situation? I can tell you it's a frightening thing to experience,even more so when you are unable to defend yourself.I was in one of those situations many years ago. Its not something you soon forget,being a sitting duck,praying shots won't hit your loved ones,or you. At the time I was in a country where people were not allowed to protect themselves. So until you go through that type of horrifying situation and paralyzing fear perhaps you should refrain from trashing other people and their opinions.

​

Do you realize how offensive is to cut and paste a long propaganda blurb from a pro-guns website
that has no peer review and no vetting?
Do you realize how offensive is to report CPRC propaganda without first checking the reports,
and subsequent debate?

(By the way, wikipedia is widely read, adheres to some reporting standard, always contains
references to original sources, and is written as result of consensus among multiple authors.
As such, it is typically more reliable than most stuff you find online.)

 

[Billyd]

Here are some realistic and relatively low cost recommendations.

A guarded single point of entry to the school grounds.

Bullet proof glass and doors to all classrooms.

Doors to both buildings and classrooms fitted with security locks.

Monitored security cameras on all entrances, hallways and outside grounds.

Use technology to eliminate the need to carry textbooks and pencil and paper. No need to carry a backpack.

An active shooter response plan in place.

No vehicles allowed on school grounds. Guarded entrance from parking lots. Monitored security cameras on parking lot.

 

[kaylagrl]

Do you realize how offensive is to cut and paste a long propaganda blurb from a pro-guns website
that has no peer review and no vetting?
Do you realize how offensive is to report CPRC propaganda without first checking the reports,
and subsequent debate?

(By the way, wikipedia is widely read, adheres to some reporting standard, always contains
references to original sources, and is written as result of consensus among multiple authors.
As such, it is typically more reliable than most stuff you find online.)

Re-read my post,I told you I did not realize it was a pro-gun site. And I'd hardly consider that "offensive",you're being ridiculous and petty.

You're the first person I've heard hold Wikipedia in such high esteem. If they can be used,CPRC can be used. You ignored everything else I said,as you have everyone else that has responded to you.So tell us,whats your solution to the situation?

 

[posthuman]

And heads too... unfortunately, because of the HIPAA rule, we aren't able to verify if someone is too mentally insane to purchase/own a firearm.

We were able to, for a short time, at least in a limited sense, after Obama made some changes. But cancelling all that was one of the very first things mr Trump did.

 

[AdolfHipster]

We were able to, for a short time, at least in a limited sense, after Obama made some changes. But cancelling all that was one of the very first things mr Trump did.

I actually remember thinking Obama got this right as well. Along with net neutrality, pre-existing conditions, and a few other things, he did get the HIPAA order right. The only issue is that people think it's taking away rights from the patient... but I think it's a good thing to take away the right to own and operate a gun if they are mentally incompetent...

Unless I'm missing something about the order, why did Trump undo this?

 

[posthuman]

I actually remember thinking Obama got this right as well. Along with net neutrality, pre-existing conditions, and a few other things, he did get the HIPAA order right. The only issue is that people think it's taking away rights from the patient... but I think it's a good thing to take away the right to own and operate a gun if they are mentally incompetent...

Unless I'm missing something about the order, why did Trump undo this?

My opinion is that Trump undid this for absolutely no other reason than because it was one of Obamas accomplishments.
If you look through the flurry of EOs he signed in his first several months, most of them make little sense, overturning good policies and ending good programs - things Obama had put into motion. My opinion is that this man's pride was hurt by our last president, and that his vanity is more important than good policy to him, and much of what he's done all year has been petty revenge at the expense of the nation.

I'm not at all the only person in the country who sees it that way, either, though in a country where people think believing in Christ means you must be Republican and you must get all your news from FOX, that practically any other source is fake, you won't find a lot of people on this forum who see it that way too.

 

[zeroturbulence]

I think teachers should definitely have arms. Without arms they can't write on the blackboard or carry books around... do they still use books in schools?

Note... I'm not trying to make fun of this amazing young lady.. Just trying to lighten the mood a little..

 

[posthuman]

I think teachers should definitely have arms. Without arms they can't write on the blackboard or carry books around... do they still use books in schools?

Note... I'm not trying to make fun of this amazing young lady.. Just trying to lighten the mood a little..

My analysis professor in undergrad only had one arm. He got along ok.

 

[hornetguy]

Sorry, given that there were strong proponents of giving guns to schools, I thought their opinions were based
on actual facts. You are right, I should be less naive..

I would LOVE to see some facts that would support, or NOT support having armed teachers. I am not married to the idea of arming teachers, but I think it should be an option for teachers that truly want to take on that responsibility.

I would never suggest that ANY teacher who does not want to, be coerced or "guilted" into becoming an armed teacher.

If it's in any way possible to protect our schools using hired security/police personnel, I would definitely prefer that route, along with metal detectors and limiting access/egress points at school buildings.

There are lots of things that can be done... it's simply a matter of making those things a number one priority.

 

[Tommy379]

I don't know what evidence can be gathered for the effectiveness of something that has never been done before. That doesn't mean you don't try, or take the option off the table.

 

[Tommy379]

I think teachers should definitely have arms. Without arms they can't write on the blackboard or carry books around... do they still use books in schools?

Note... I'm not trying to make fun of this amazing young lady.. Just trying to lighten the mood a little..

I like feet more than hands, so it's all good.

 

[AdolfHipster]

I think teachers should definitely have arms. Without arms they can't write on the blackboard or carry books around... do they still use books in schools?

Note... I'm not trying to make fun of this amazing young lady.. Just trying to lighten the mood a little..

Looks like some of my Liberal friends' idea of gun control... "If we don't have hands/fingers, how can they mass kill you with weapons of war?"

 

[joefizz]

I would LOVE to see some facts that would support, or NOT support having armed teachers. I am not married to the idea of arming teachers, but I think it should be an option for teachers that truly want to take on that responsibility.

I would never suggest that ANY teacher who does not want to, be coerced or "guilted" into becoming an armed teacher.

If it's in any way possible to protect our schools using hired security/police personnel, I would definitely prefer that route, along with metal detectors and limiting access/egress points at school buildings.

There are lots of things that can be done... it's simply a matter of making those things a number one priority.

Well hornet guy the facts are that in the last week there have been school shootings by either teenagers or mentally disturbed adults,neither option is exactly "comforting" to everyone,many aspects can be looked at such as that people should be counciled or background checked for a prime solution and while guns could cause a hush on fear for teens and parents it will be awhile before comforting "results" come about because allowing point and shoot weaponry for anyone is risky and could cause for issues in school.
For example a teacher could choke when using a gun or feel overwhelmed and a death result,on the under hand though it would me some degree of comfort to students and parents if the teachers use them as they should "for protection only",then there's one more problem teens and children having "the possibility" of getting their hands on guns in school instead of outside of it.
Each solution can only be effective if "every precaution" is taken as in "teachers" are screened for any "oddities" such mental illness or prior criminal record,every gun "must have a working safety switch" and informed of a time to "press the safety switch" so as that if a teen or possibly dangerous person got a hold of their gun that it couldn't be used immediately when held and should be "carried" or "stored" out of "reach" as in under lock and key or behind glass when not in use,if there is no reason as far as teachers know to be alarmed and so don't need guns on their person,which would be after such time as teachers,parents,and students "feel safe" enough to at least feel that the weapons aren't dire important,at some point "peace" has to be established again which doesn't happen quickly after such times.

 

[Laish]

My answer to the op is no . Teachers are already overburdened. They teach ,parent ,advise on career fields and screen for psychological issues the list can go on . Best answer in my opinion is get trained individuals in place . Men or women that have gone thru shoot or don’t shoot training. I want folks that have as much education on dangerous situations as a teachers have in education. Learning to shot is one thing leveling a firearm at someone is quite different. Not saying some won’t be up to it but I want a person that is a police type professional first . Not someone that is a teacher that happens to be armed.
That and the responsibility of having a weapon can be a burden when kids are around. Let’s let teachers teach and not add something else to the ever growing list of other things they do besides teaching.
Blessings
Bill

 

[KALYNA18]

Since prayer and other things as don't mention Jesus at grad. etc, people don't have their heads on right, no less carry a weapon. They might use it on themselves. The fact that taking a defensive attititude against the ar15 that was used, posted on news that they will now be armed with the same assault weapon as was used to destroy lives. So now that will only cause more trauma, and only cause more stress, in remembering or even seeing that same AR 15. Not to smart to do, and not very concealing. Very traumatic, as remembering it, and causing further trauma. Wisdom has and is gone from the education system. Period.
Wisdom only comes from God, for it says, the foolish say, there is no God. NO they should not carry oc/ cc. Temptaion to shoot a student, as it is well known assaults on teachers, are very real, so either the teacher hits, out, or the student grabs. NOt Good.