KING JAMES VERSION BIBLE VS. MODERN ENGLISH BIBLES

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
These are general things or attributes you can, indeed, get without any Bible.

But we are talking about more specific teachings for which you need to read the Bible. How do you decide which ones are correct, by feeling?
Ok, give an example.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
The Bible is and it reads "Lucifer" and even the heathen know who is.
"Lucifer" is the same word as "morning star". The only difference is that its Latin :D
 
J

joefizz

Guest
Right because of the KJV translators being lazy, it has worked it's way into popular culture. But it is NOT the devil's actual first name.

Mr Lucifer Satan.
666 Hell Street
Babylon.


He wears red tights BTW ;)
Hmm lazy I don't see how including a relevant language is being "Lazy"...
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
Ok, give an example.
For example "preservation of Scriptures" vs "preservation of church". One Bible has this, another one has that.

How do you decide, by feelings? Feelings would want both, right? Now what?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
Light bearer = morning star???
Its Venus. Morning star. Lucifer in latin. The first star giving light to ancient people.

Whatever you want to call it.

Its an image of first beings (angels) etc, depends on context. But Lucifer is still the same term as the morning star. The same meaning.
 
J

joefizz

Guest
The King James Bible is up to date and relevant so anyone who reads Isaiah 14 understands who is being spoken of. The phrase "morning star" leads to confusion.
I'm up for this let me not simply "take your word for it" I happen to have a King James Bible(the only one I use)looking now...
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
Ask someone on the street who Lucifer is and see what king of response you get.
So the man non the street is your "proof," not actual facts that go against popular misconceptions?

Got it.

It is anything goes with you KJVO's. Inconsistent standard after inconsistent standard, then double standards as well. One standard for those who use MV's, then another one for yourselves that contradicts this same standard. These are well known facts that exist in the KJVO camp used as arguments to "prove" their cause for a version.
 
Nov 24, 2017
1,004
31
0
Its Venus. Morning star. Lucifer in latin. The first star giving light to ancient people.

Whatever you want to call it.

Its an image of first beings (angels) etc, depends on context. But Lucifer is still the same term as the morning star. The same meaning.
Jesus does not reflect light like the planet Venus but is light. What is the brightest star in the sky in the morning for us earth dwellers?
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
For example "preservation of Scriptures" vs "preservation of church". One Bible has this, another one has that.

How do you decide, by feelings? Feelings would want both, right? Now what?
You, Lord, will keep the needy safe
and will protect us forever from the wicked,
8 who freely strut about

Does the Lord keep the needy safe? Does this really happen, are all the needy people in the world safe today or have they been safe through out the years?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,822
13,440
113
Obviously, they all can't be the word of God since they all contain different words and different truths. God cannot contradict Himself.
Given your statement, you must believe that which was not the word of God somehow became the word of God when it was published in 1611. That is effectively transubstantiation of the Bible, and it isn't consistent with the Bible.

Again, if the KJV was translated/adapted from that which was not the word of God (previous English and Greek editions), how can it be the word of God? You are the one who effectively affirms this, so please consider and answer it.

I don't get my theology from the thoughts of man in the preface of the KJV, but from the words contained within. Because they did not claim God's hand in translating the Scripture does this mean that God could not be or was not in control of their commission?
This isn't a matter of theology; we aren't discussing the nature of God. Your position is logically and historically untenable, and instead of thinking through the implications of it, you are avoiding the issue with a redirect. It isn't going to fly. While I can accept your reasoning in your last sentence above, you must also recognize the inverse: it doesn't mean God was involved (to the degree you claim) either.

For the answer we must look to the Bible, our final authority in all matters of faith and practice. When John the Baptist was accosted by the Levites in John chapter one and asked if he was Elijah (John 1:21) he answered that he was not Elijah. Yet in Matthew chapters 11:7-14 and 17:10-13 Jesus Christ plainly stated that John was Elijah. Did John the Baptist lie? No. Did Jesus Christ lie? Of course not. The answer is very simply that John was Elijah but he didn't know it! Thus we see from our Bible example that a man can have God working through him and not know it. Likewise, God could easily have divinely directed the King James translators without their active knowledge.
You are basing your argument on your speculation that John did not know his role. While that is plausible, it is not certain. John could have known his role quite well, and still answered truthfully, because until Jesus stated that John was the Elijah who was to come, the Scripture they knew declared that another was to come "in the spirit and power of Elijah". That didn't make John a resurrected or returned Elijah; he was still John, but he fulfilled that prophecy nonetheless. Truth can have more than one level.

If your "theology" is logically untenable, the problem is not with logic.
 
J

joefizz

Guest
I'm up for this let me not simply "take your word for it" I happen to have a King James Bible(the only one I use)looking now...
Isaiah 14 verse12(KJV)
How art thou fallen from heaven,O Lucifer,son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground,which didst weaken the nations!
Yep it could be noone but Lucifer/Satan/Prince of darkness in Isaiah mentioned.
 
Nov 24, 2017
1,004
31
0
So the man non the street is your "proof," not actual facts that go against popular misconceptions?

Got it.

It is anything goes with you KJVO's. Inconsistent standard after inconsistent standard, then double standards as well. One standard for those who use MV's, then another one for yourselves that contradicts this same standard. These are well known facts that exist in the KJVO camp used as arguments to "prove" their cause for a version.
The name was found in the Bible long before you and it is the reason why anyone knows of the name Lucifer so what is your point?
 
Nov 24, 2017
1,004
31
0
Here is a question. Why the son of the morning or dawn?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
Jesus does not reflect light like the planet Venus but is light. What is the brightest star in the sky in the morning for us earth dwellers?
People did not know that Venus is a planet. In their language it was star giving light. And the OT/NT is written in their language, not in the language of people who travelled to moon.

We must understand what we read.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
Here is a question. Why the son of the morning or dawn?
Because he's the "rising sun" as Bill Clinton said in one of his speeches in the year 2000.... He is horus.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,267
5,629
113
The King James Bible is up to date and relevant so anyone who reads Isaiah 14 understands who is being spoken of. The phrase "morning star" leads to confusion.
No it doesn't.

Unless you seek to spread confusion.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
The etymology of Lucifer is light bearer. Paul calls Satan an angel (messenger) of light - light bearer. It's a synergy between the old and new testament. That's my opinion at least... no bluring the lines as to who Christ is and who Satan is. There are people on this forum that actually believe Jesus fell from heaven because of those verses.

2 Corinthians 11:14 [Full Chapter]
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

All you say is true. There are people on the forum with many misunderstandings that are in no way attributable to the NIV.

If Job 38:7 were not in the Bible, you would have made an excellent case. As it is I don't see it as you do.
 
Nov 24, 2017
1,004
31
0
People did not know that Venus is a planet. In their language it was star giving light. And the OT/NT is written in their language, not in the language of people who travelled to moon.

We must understand what we read.
Venus sure is bright until the sun rises and vanquishes all the lights in the heaven from the perspective of us earth dwellers.