Not By Works

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:14, “For we know that the Law is spiritual...”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), YHWH; for it is not subject to the Law of YHWH, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please YHWH."[/FONT]

 

[Ariel82]

Even in the beginning we see TWO COVENANTS:

The slaves offer their own works and those who believe in the Promised Seed offered in faith according to God's plan: redemption through the Blood of the Lamb.


Adam and Eve covered themselves in fig leaves; God have them clothes made from animal skin.

Will people give up their filthy rags for Jesus white robes?
*****

Genesis 4

3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.

4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

 

[Ariel82]

God ask us will we worship Him alone or the idols of our own making?

 

[3rdMesseger]

Not gonna go into a long essay this time, Just gonna present the word.


James 2

14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. (Gal 3:4-9) 24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Faith and works go hand and hand, It you have faith, works will be manifested, but we can't be saved by works alone, Love to God must come first, and trusting in him, Once that happens you'll want to tell others of his love, and share the gospel, and keep the law he gave, It must all go together, It can't be separated otherwise faith isn't faith, It's just feeling or something you do just so you want go to hell, same with works, They must go hand and hand, and that's what the Christian walk.

Galatians 3 is no contradicted by this verse, Only explained, the full meaning here, Works must not come first, we must all have faith first, But once you have faith works come immediately after, It's a process, Not that Works are bad, Paul talks about Good works, But keeping the law should never be our focus, We should love God, and love fulfills the law, "If You Love Me Keep My Commandments" If you love God you'll keep the statues and commands he gives, Because you love him, But if you do it just because you don't want to die in Hell, then you really haven't made a commitment, Works don't save you, their only the results our you being saved.



Godbless.

 

[3rdMesseger]

Justified Walk | Justified Walk Ministries

Listen to part 5 "GraveYard religion" Please, It explains things better then I could.

 

[Ariel82]

This song is echoing within my heart right now against the thoughts of all I have left undone today.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J2KOCgC8DnU


My house is a mess and I have a to,do list a mile long, I wonder how many balls I will drop and what I will forget or delay doing tomorrow.

However, God reminds: look at what we have already done together: cleaning the church and sharing that time with my church family. Attending a birthday party and make a few fragile connections and watching the kids enjoy themselves. Seeing my brother in law and his family. Planning my daughter's birthday party next week. Telling a friend I will watch her cats for a week while she travels to Israel. Washing dishes and feeding my husband and daughter. Watching my son and husband play catch.

I can count all my blessings and see how God has filled my days. There are a lot of things I could have done differently but I still feel God is pleased and okay with my choices because I chose love.

So yeah, I just take it one step at a time and trust my Shephard to lead me to where He wants me to be.

I don't worry about keeping or breaking laws because God has asked His people to do some mighty strange things..,,eat food over human dung? Carry a sewer pipe through downtown Jerusalem? Marry a prostitute?

Yep God asked His prophets to do all those things and more.

He asked His son to die upon the cross for our sins.

Even though Jesus could have called an army of angels to protect him, he chose to suffer and die for us in accordance to God's plans to redeem His people.

Have you picked up your cross?

Have you been crucified with Christ?

 

[Ariel82]

Not gonna go into a long essay this time, Just gonna present the word.


James 2

14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. (Gal 3:4-9) 24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Faith and works go hand and hand, It you have faith, works will be manifested, but we can't be saved by works alone, Love to God must come first, and trusting in him, Once that happens you'll want to tell others of his love, and share the gospel, and keep the law he gave, It must all go together, It can't be separated otherwise faith isn't faith, It's just feeling or something you do just so you want go to hell, same with works, They must go hand and hand, and that's what the Christian walk.

Galatians 3 is no contradicted by this verse, Only explained, the full meaning here, Works must not come first, we must all have faith first, But once you have faith works come immediately after, It's a process, Not that Works are bad, Paul talks about Good works, But keeping the law should never be our focus, We should love God, and love fulfills the law, "If You Love Me Keep My Commandments" If you love God you'll keep the statues and commands he gives, Because you love him, But if you do it just because you don't want to die in Hell, then you really haven't made a commitment, Works don't save you, their only the results our you being saved.



Godbless.

What exactly do you have faith in?

You speak words but what does your heart truly believe?

If you don't have works, are you afraid of being cast in hell?

 

[3rdMesseger]

I have faith in Jesus Christ my Lord, who died for me, and set me free from death, and sin, and I will proclaim his love for me, and forgiveness to everyone I meet, However, That itself is a expression of works, None of that is possible if you go by the idea that works are impossible, even through Jesus tells us

John 14

12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit

15If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Ask anything he God's name, Our father, and he will do it, But he can't help us overcome Sin which definition is the transgression of the law?


1 John 3

4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

 

[3rdMesseger]

We can do all things through Christ who strengthens us, Even keep the law.

 

[Ariel82]

We can do all things through Christ who strengthens us, Even keep the law.

What Laws do you mean?

Jesus broke many Laws of men, yet fulfilled all the Laws of God.

He replaced the Old covenant with the New Covenant.

Do you know what that really means?

 

[Ariel82]

I have faith in Jesus Christ my Lord, who died for me, and set me free from death, and sin, and I will proclaim his love for me, and forgiveness to everyone I meet, However, That itself is a expression of works, None of that is possible if you go by the idea that works are impossible, even through Jesus tells us

John 14

12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit

15If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Ask anything he God's name, Our father, and he will do it, But he can't help us overcome Sin which definition is the transgression of the law?


1 John 3

4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

No one states that works are impossible to do.

What is stated is that works do not save and to add them as a requirement of salvation is to make yourself an idol.

For you are not trusting that God saves and that through His works in you, you are truly adopted but instead seek to do works to earn what God has already given you freely, which grieves the Holy spirit..,, trying to finish in the flesh what is given in the spirit.

God wants us to work as an extension of His love...NOt in order to earn His love.

How can we give what we have not first received?

 

[Ariel82]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mNkDdXhjFy0

This song goes through my head because people nowadays want the miracles more than they want God.

"Help me want the Healer more than the healing. Help me want the Savior more than the saving. Help me want you Jesus more than anything."

Until you get to the point when all you truly want is that Pearl without price....then you still have a lot of dying left to do.

Before you can be raised with Christ, you must be crucified with Him.

If you don't know that the pearl isn't salvation but Jesus, you don't really know the Gospel that saves.

 

[3rdMesseger]

What exactly do you have faith in?

You speak words but what does your heart truly believe?

If you don't have works, are you afraid of being cast in hell?

Will I be cast into hell if I don't have works?

Would God allow me to Go to heaven, who worships someone other then him? my cat, dog, family, a rock,
and Loves and cares for it more then the person who died, created, and who can transform him into HIS likeness? but I'd rather worship a rock, would I be happy in Heaven where the thing I loves is no longer the center? God reigns supreme?



Would God allow me to curse God and hate everything to do with him? Would I be happy to live eternally with someone I care nothing for, and even hate?




Would God allow me in Heaven even if I break his commands, and constantly rebel against him, and wont serve him, and keep the day he commanded to keep, I'd be no better then Satan, he rebelled against something God commanded, and refuses to do it, and would rather do his own way, Would I be in happy in Heaven where everyone else serves God in Spirit and Truth?


Would God allow me to disrespect my parents, and leave them to die of old age not caring for the people that gave up everything for me, or at least brought me into existence in this world? If I don't Love them, How can I respect the one who brought this entire world into existence? How could he enjoy heaven without someone I feel doesn't rule me, I'm my own person?


If I murder someone in anger, Do I deserve to make it to Heaven? unless I ask forgivness from God, but if not, Should I make it to heaven with others who I wont be able to get along with, because my character wouldn't be in line with theirs, They'd be perfect and without blemish, and I'd still be hateful, and jealous, and condescending? would I be happy in eternity with people I wish would go away, or die, just so I wouldn't have to be bothered with them anymore... ?



Would God allow me to go to heaven if I committed adultery? would he allow me to taint Heaven with my perverted mind, in a place where my desires would never be met? would I be happy there, Is Heaven something i'd be preoccupied with? or would my mind be somewhere else?



Would God allow me in Heaven if I'm a thief? Would he allow me to steal from my fellowmen, In Heaven? would that be right, for me, and for the others who have made it to Heaven and want those evils gone forever even in thought?



Would Go allow me in Heaven if I'm gossiping about another brother in Heaven, telling lies about him? would he allow me to want something from that brother that I couldn't have, or maybe I did have but in my mind I thought his was better?

can sin continue like that?

Would Go allow any of this? No.

But that is the ten commandments right their, God wants to change our hearts, but he wont do it unless we ask, he's not gonna allow as sinner in Heaven, The commandments God gave are meant to show us the way, we must walk in it, The ten are not bondage to someone who's surrendered all to Christ.

After everything God's done for us, your telling me it's to much to just keep ten principals he gave like don't kill each other, and love one another, worship on a certain day I gave and don't forget to do it, because it's a day I want to communion with you, But it's to hard I guess, after Jesus died on the cross, and could have separated himself from God forever, his Father and ours, if Jesus sinned he could have paid the punishment just like the rest of us, but he did it anyway, but we can't give up stealing? the answer is no, we can't, But if we ask God to help us, he will gives us the power, we must abide in him, and he in us, and nothing will be impossible for us to do.


John 15

1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
12This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

 

[benhur]

Romans and Galatians puts to bed any and all legalistic, law keeping, working for dogma that has no power to save or justify a man before God

Did Romans ad Galatians put to bed Matthew 6:15?

You can answer yes, if you really believe that.

 

[benhur]

Take it up with Jesus...the many that believe and push a works based salvation stand before him boasting of their works and not his work, power and promises....they get cast!

There goes your dishonesty again. Let me show you.

I would never stand before Jesus and boast of my works.

I would never stand before Jesus and tell him his works and power and promises are not true.

You know I would not, why do you persist in telling this forum that I do?

 

[benhur]

Hi Stunnedbygrace, praise God the veil has been taken away which means you can see clearly our Wonderful Savior. Everyone here became tired (not at you of course), as in fatigued trying to explain day after day that Jesus payed it all, all to Him we owe. What stands in their way to accept Jesus full payment for sin, is it pride or blinded by self confidence.

God bless you and keep stayed on that Gospel Way......

We all accept Jesus full payment for sin, we love him and have faith that he did that.

But we also accept that Jesus told us to follow him and to be like him and if we love him, keep his commandments, and so we do those kinds of things also. So that our faith does not die, and our works are not faithless.

 

[benhur]

Actually the words fit you and all people who think they must maintain salvation or it will be lost quite well.

Deny it all you want. It does not make it true.

Notice how you worded it, You say you do not believ on any night we stand on our works. But then you screwed up. You added the word only. In other words. It is not just God and on chrisdt that you stand, you believe you stand on Christ and your works.


Then you said no work will earn you a place in heaven, then again screwed up by saying they will earn you a place in heaven, when they are done with the power and promises and might of christ, and prove it by sayting they are tied together.

You preach faith plus works, you preach grace plus works. The bible does not teach this. And again, DC has you pegged perfectly BECAUSE of the words you added (and I highlighted for you and all to see so you can not deny them)

Why would I deny what I wrote? It comes straight out of the bible. Faith without works is dead. Works without faith is dead.
But faith with works is life. Otherwise you cannot reconcile 1/2 of the bible. And when you can't reconcile to it, you ignore it and when you ignore it, you put your eternal life in jeopardy.

 

[3rdMesseger]

No one states that works are impossible to do.

What is stated is that works do not save and to add them as a requirement of salvation is to make yourself an idol.

For you are not trusting that God saves and that through His works in you, you are truly adopted but instead seek to do works to earn what God has already given you freely, which grieves the Holy spirit..,, trying to finish in the flesh what is given in the spirit.

God wants us to work as an extension of His love...NOt in order to earn His love.

How can we give what we have not first received?

As I've stated before, I agree, works don't save us, works are only a expression of faith,

True works don't come into play unto after you have faith, Once that is done works are manifested,
How can I say "I believe God" but I say God's name in vain, or worship my car instead of God?? steal from my neighbor, or hate my brother?

If you really love God you'll keep his commandments, Not so you can impress God, but because you love him, God doesn't need us, we need God, God's trying to bring us back to the original Man, Adam and Eve, No sin, no hatred,Pride,Selfishness,Covetousness, All of that taken out of our character through communion with him, However how can you know that Adultery (Covetousness) is bad without the law?

1 Timothy 1

8But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

The law doesn't make us holy, Only show us we need to be saved, That's why Jesus came, However the purpose of the law still stands, to show us were sinning,

Does not sinning make us holy? Yes and No, however that's impossible without the law, Not that law can make you holy, It's weak through the flesh to do so, our own carnal natures can't keep the law, does that mean the law is weak? No, were the weak ones, God gave us the power to keep the law, through loving him.

"If You Love Me Keep My Commandments"


But loving God must come first, we must love Jesus, and all he's done for us, we want to be separated from sin, and our carnal nature, so we can be closer to God and his character, once that happens the law has knew meaning, we automatically stop breaking it because we don't want to hurt him, Not through own power, we must ask him to help us, pray without ceasing, and my God's grace we overcome.


Works mean nothing on their own, Don't ever let me tell you that, they are empty, just doing something so you can get favors from God, However that's totally different from doing something because the idea that your gonna hurt your savior and be separated from him if you do this thing,

Just let me ask you, If works are no longer important, then is committing adultery alright? or murder? or cursing God? or Worshiping Satan himself? Because if works have no purpose in religion as you seem to be hinting then all of those things are perfectly fine, and Jesus attest to that.

I'm not saying were gonna get into Heaven by our works, No, definitely not, but those works are only truly manifested if you have faith, and love God, otherwise it's done selfishly, but God didn't intend for it to be that way, Satan always has a counterfit of what God wants, he make our good works to do as God has commanded because we love him, Into trying to apeas God with our afflictions that we put on ourselves and God never gave,
But that doesn't make works bad, only why your carrying out those works.

 

[3rdMesseger]

Revealation 14

12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.13And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.


Works are very much important to God, not for his sake, but for ours, Does God not want the best for us? Does he want us to be happy? Everything he wrote down in His law, is perfect according to David.

Psalm 19


7The law of the LORD is perfect,converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
8The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.


Psalm 119

14I have rejoiced in the way of thy testimonies, as much as in all riches.
15I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways.
16I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word.


Jesus kept the law, and we claim to want to be just like him yet we don't do the works that he did.At no point did Jesus ever break the Ten Commandments, and at no point has he told us to do it either, He only told us to Love him, and if we do, keep his commandments, is that so hard?

If we do it in love, is it really bondage to us? to do as God says because we love him?

John 14

21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Jesus came that we might know God loves and forgive us, and is willing to talk
and commune with us. We just need to repent and believe in His forgiveness and
walk in His ways. Our sin and failure is what leads us to death and judgement,
which Jesus through the cross has resolved if we are prepared to take it on.

Jesus gave His life as a sacrifice to pay the price of sin and draw us into holiness
purity and eternity with a life of righteousness.

We need to become part of the vine, to dwell in Him and He is us.
As Paul said to Timothy

Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses.
In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you
to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,
which God will bring about in his own time
1 Timothy 6:12-15

Amen

What command was he charging Timothy to keep without spot or blame until the appearing again of Christ?
The command was: fight the good fight of trust.

He was saying fight the good fight of trust until the end. Trust without spot or blame. Trust, trust, trust!
This is because he knew it was only through trust that a man is saved, is being saved, and will be saved.