Women should not be allowed to preach in church

[MarcR]

To be honest, and this is no more than my own personal thought on the situation, but I think Adam was horrified when he learned Eve had been deceived. I see Adam eating too knowing full well what he was doing, but doing so because he couldn't live knowing she would die alone. I think it was more than likely out of love that he ate. He couldn't let her face it alone, and may well be why God didn't just wipe the slate clean when we fell, because Adam ate out of love for his other half. That's the way I like to look at it anyway, but admittedly it's 100% romantic conjecture on my part.

I see it that way too.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

wow .......

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I suppose it's a nice sentiment, but...I don't think so. The whole "the woman you gave me, gave it to me, and so I ate" remark doesn't fit the sentiment, (in my opinion).

 

[Magenta]

I was bored with purple........

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

That's really not what true love does. True love says: let it fall on me and not the one I love.

 

[Pontiac]

Look, if you are going to have the England flag on your avatar, will you please spell COLOUR properly. Standards!

That is not any flag of England with my avatar ... It is the flag of The Templar Knights ... If you are going to criticize someone for something you should first have your facts in order ...

 

[MarcR]

Paul may not have suffered a woman to teach is not the same as God not allowing a woman to teach.

You usually give sound reasoned posts; but, IMO, this is not among them. If we believe that Paul was inspired to write that; then we must believe Paul is speaking for God!

 

[Ralph-]

Man "shut up"
Woman "but"
Man "shut up, God said so"

18"Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh."-1 Peter 2:18

You'll have to explain that one and how you think it ties into the thread...

The underlying problem that women have with the order of authority is fear. They are afraid to be in submission to a man. And some men give good reason why a woman would be afraid to be submitted to a man. But as Christians, women are not to give into fear and should submit to authority, even if that authority is harsh.

All of us are to submit to those in authority over us whether they are good and considerate, or are harsh. We have been called to suffer, if necessary, this way. Instead of making the scriptures not really mean what they say we should all understand that God wants us to submit even when the person who have to submit to is not a good person.

 

[Magenta]

This is interesting. On the one hand, we could say Adam did it for love, awww, how romantic. Or, we could say, he did it for selfish reasons, simply not wanting to be alone. Or, we could say that if he truly loved Eve, he would not have allowed her to eat of the forbidden tree in the first place. However, this last option is kind of closed to us, is it not? Since God allowed them to eat of it, and in so doing, cast man into a centuries long battle with the pride of life, and the lust of the eyes and flesh, while setting the stage for the coming Redeemer. While mankind continues to squabble for power, causing all kinds of destruction in the wake of such incessant struggles, the One Who truly has all power has been gathering His bride and preparing a place for us...

 

[Silverwings]

The following scriptures answer this question for me:

Galatians 3:28 28There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are one in Christ Jesus 1Cor 14:36

1Cor 14:34
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Cor 14:35
And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? We are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[MarcR]

I just realized something that may have a beating on this discussion.

The word ἐκκλησία churches really means assemblies. It was common practice, in the first century, for believers to attend synagogue on the Sabbath and a Christian fellowship on the first day of the week. A synagogue with a large representation of believers might well be thought of as an assembly. For a woman to speak out in a first century synagogue would have been perceived as totally unruly and not tolerated. I can't say that this is the intent; but I see it as a possibility.
If it were the intent it would change many people's perspective.

 

[Dino246]

I just realized something that may have a beating on this discussion.

I believe you meant to write, "bearing" but it's funny as it is!

 

[MarcR]

He can't have been more than an arm's length away if she passed him some fruit and he ate it.

While that is certainly true, it does NOT mean that he was with her when she picked it or even when she ate it.

 

[Dino246]

The underlying problem that women have with the order of authority is fear. They are afraid to be in submission to a man. And some men give good reason why a woman would be afraid to be submitted to a man. But as Christians, women are not to give into fear and should submit to authority, even if that authority is harsh.

All of us are to submit to those in authority over us whether they are good and considerate, or are harsh. We have been called to suffer, if necessary, this way. Instead of making the scriptures not really mean what they say we should all understand that God wants us to submit even when the person who have to submit to is not a good person.

A very few women may have an issue with fear, but I really don't think that is the case for all Christian women. It certainly has nothing to do with the men who try to enforce their understanding of three or four passages (unless they fear liberated and empowered women!).

As I see it, the core issue is the consistency of Scripture. To me it is inconsistent that Jesus uplifted women in a very patriarchal culture, empowered and affirmed them, all with the intent to keep them permanently under the boot-heels of men. I honestly believe that Paul's statements regarding the limitations on women, while apparently clear, are actually clouded partly by a lack of understanding of the culture and his phraseology, and partly by the same patriarchal attitudes that Jesus was seeking to undermine in the first place.

 

[MarcR]

Woman! Get thee to a nunnery!

You need to be careful quoting Shakespeare! When he wrote that, a nunnery was a euphemism for a whorehouse NOT a convent.

 

[garee]

To be honest, and this is no more than my own personal thought on the situation, but I think Adam was horrified when he learned Eve had been deceived. I see Adam eating too knowing full well what he was doing, but doing so because he couldn't live knowing she would die alone. I think it was more than likely out of love that he ate. He couldn't let her face it alone, and may well be why God didn't just wipe the slate clean when we fell, because Adam ate out of love for his other half. That's the way I like to look at it anyway, but admittedly it's 100% romantic conjecture on my part..

Mankind was deceived. The decision was based on each others own mind in hope of being in harmony as one. If one falls they both fall.

Adam did not live because he broke the commandment. The soul that sins dies.

Satan knew the blame would go on the woman. She in the end of the matter represents the whole Church or bride of Christ as new creatures (no longer male or female) pointing ahead to our new incorruptible bodies.(no procreation)

Because the time of reformation had come, new ceremonial laws were introduced to govern the previos separation between the woman’s court and that of men .

The literal husband is to represent our head (Christ our spiritual husband) not seen, as a representative glory. The woman again who represents the new creation …, no more male or female she is the representative glory of man. God did not leave the woman without any representative glory of her , Her hair.

During ceremonies the only glory to be seen, must be seen by faith (the unseen) Is the veiled glory of God. That veil will be removed when the wedding is consummated at the end of the age.

 

[so-jesus-e-deus]

No. The role of the woman is to be the help meet for husband.

 

[Magenta]

While that is certainly true, it does NOT mean that he was with her when she picked it or even when she ate it.

She ate and ALSO gave some to Adam who was with her. I think it does say he was there with her when she ate. Genesis 3:6

When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.[SUB][/SUB]

 

[MarcR]

Adam Clarke's commentary:

Verse 7

Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen - As the word συγγενεις signifies relatives, whether male or female, and as Junia may probably be the name of a woman, the wife of Andronicus, it would be better to say relatives than kinsmen.

But probably St. Paul means no more than that they were Jews; for, in Romans 9:3, he calls all the Jews his kinsmen according to the flesh.

While this is true it should be remembered that until the last third of the 20th century, 'he' was used to express unspecified gender. Likewise the use of kinsman was NOT gender specific either.

 

[Magenta]

No. The role of the woman is to be the help meet for husband.

This is true. Someone indispensable, in the same way that God is our help.