GALATIANS 3:5....BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW OR BY THE HEARING OF FAITH?
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Actually., when I said I don't dance in that post it was in reference to that movie with Harrison Ford "Clear and Present Danger" When answering about doing the old 2 step.. Ryan says "I don't dance" Meaning in on this chat forum I don't dance around questions and answers. Haven't been on cc for a few days so it was nice to see that song posted. That is a really pretty song. Thanks for posting it Herald!
I like going over things in the Bible and that have been explained before right here even about the new birth and the seed of God that remains in us. God sees us as we are in Christ. So much so that in our perfect man we cannot sin because His seed remains in us.
The part that sins is the part we give over to but that has already been defeated by Jesus. But how many Christians still get angry with their families and are still refusing to forgive or go back to churches that they had arguments in or how many Christians can't be kind to those who are being mean to them like the good old driving the car scenario we are all in. You can tell if a person is following after the things of the Spirit by how they behave behind the wheel of a car. It's sort of where the rubber meets the road.
And it's clear that to the mindset of us humans who can't separate the new man from the old manner of life we think we have to work to be righteous. It's a mystery how we can actually have been already MADE new in the righteousness of God in Christ. So concerned we are believing in something that goes against our ability to work it. We can't work it. It's been given to us to live it out. It's the righteousness of God REVEALED. Not our righteousness.
Romans 1:16-17
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For I am not ashamed of the Gospel (good news) of Christ, for it is God’s power working unto salvation [for deliverance from eternal death] to everyone who believes with a personal trust and a confident surrender and firm reliance, to the Jew first and also to the Greek,
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For in the Gospel a righteousness which God ascribes is revealed, both springing from faith and leading to faith [disclosed through the way of faith that arouses to more faith]. As it is written, The man who through faith is just and upright shall live and shall live by faith.
All sin is carried out in the flesh as it says in Gal.5 And we are called to walk in the new man created in Christ Jesus. I'll only post the first vs. but read the whole chapter. It explains it.
5 In [this] freedom Christ has made us free [and completely liberated us]; stand fast then, and do not be hampered and held ensnared and submit again to a yoke of slavery [which you have once put off].
It makes me think of Colossians 2:10
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And you [SUP][a][/SUP]are in Him, made full and having come to fullness of life [in Christ you too are filled with the Godhead—Father, Son and Holy Spirit—and reach full spiritual stature]. And He is the Head of all rule and authority [of every angelic principality and power].
[SUP]
11 [/SUP]In Him also you were circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, but in a [spiritual] circumcision [performed by] Christ by stripping off the body of the flesh (the whole corrupt, carnal nature with its passions and lusts).
[SUP]
12 [/SUP][Thus [SUP][b][/SUP]you were circumcised when] you were buried with Him in [your] baptism, in which you were also raised with Him [[SUP][c][/SUP]to a new life] through [your] faith in the working of God [[SUP][d][/SUP]as displayed] when He raised Him up from the dead.
[SUP]
13 [/SUP]And you who were dead in trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your flesh (your sensuality, your sinful carnal nature), [God] brought to life together with [Christ], having [freely] forgiven us all our transgressions,
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]Having cancelled and blotted out and wiped away the handwriting of the note (bond) with its legal decrees and demands which was in force and stood against us (hostile to us). This [note with its regulations, decrees, and demands] He set aside and cleared [SUP][e][/SUP]completely out of our way by nailing it to [His] cross.
This is such a hard thing to grasp as true when we are living in and through the mind of the flesh. What we can't see, we don't believe. But the Bible calls us to live by the very things we cannot see because those things are eternal., not the things we see with our eyes.
Yet even we Christians are not comfortable there. We are so accustomed to living in the flesh it's impossible for us to see spiritually and so we take apart the Scriptures from a human reasoning standpoint. Thereby nullifying the faith required to live our lives in.
Each day I have to adjust my thinking to the new and living way because the flesh is so very present and in my face. But by faith it is done because of the Holy Spirit living inside and doing His ministering of teaching and comforting as we dare to step out by faith in our new creation in Christ. We have been born again... made new creations. Old things have passed away.
A mind adjustment is about reckoning what is the truth and submitting to the obedience of faith. Declaring it to be true by faith and walking in faith instead of human reason. This I've discovered is a daily reckoning to be done over and over just like exercising. The more familiar I become with who Christ is and who I am in Christ., the more usual it is to come to faith and live by faith then it was the day before.
The Holy Spirit comes along side and ministers to our spirits that we are the righteous sons of God. He show us our righteousness in Jesus so we can walk in the freedom Jesus died on the cross to gave us.
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The Holy Spirit will never come alongside and minister to us in a way that contradicts the Bible. But, if you don’t know the Bible, or if you have been so confused by lying prophets that you cannot see the truth of Scripture any more, how will you have the discernment to know whether what you are hearing is the Holy Spirit, or another gospel?
That is the problem with everything you post! It is ministered through the lens of an heretical gospel!
I also believe the Holy Spirit comes alongside daily and leads and guides me. I couldn’t make it through a day without the Holy
Spirit helping me, ministering to me, comforting me, rebuking me and showing me how I need to change and grow.
And that is the part you always miss out on. You stop at “our righteousness in Jesus” with a goal not found in Scripture “to walk in the freedom Jesus died on the cross to give us.”
In fact, Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins. He died to make us righteous in God’s eyes. His death and resurrection, and ascension to heaven, followed by the coming of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost, was so that we might be first be saved from our sins, and then transformed from what we were before - unrighteousness, haters of God.
“But understand this, that in the last days difficult times will come. 2 For people will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 unloving, irreconcilable, slanderers, without self-control, savage, opposed to what is good, 4 treacherous, reckless, conceited, loving pleasure rather than loving God. 5 They will maintain the outward appearance of religion but will have repudiated its power. So avoid people like these. 6 For some of these insinuate themselves into households and captivate weak women who are overwhelmed with sins and led along by various passions. 7 Such women are always seeking instruction, yet never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.” 2 Tim. 3:1-7
Our goal as Christians isn’t some kind of vague idea of freedom - our goal is to be righteous. We are made positionally righteous in Christ when we are saved! Hallelujah! (Romans 5:1)
But then, we have to walk with Christ, the journey, the process of becoming like him.
”Do not be conformed to this present world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may test and approve what is the will of God—what is good and well-pleasing and perfect.” Romans 12:2
Galatians is an interesting book. It is the only epistle where Paul does not compliment the people on their work for the Lord. Instead, he launches into a tirade about how they are following another gospel, and false teachers.
How ironical that JP, a false teacher, writes about “freedom in Christ” forgetting that we are only free when we are following the truth of God’s Word. That IS the message of Galatians.
Because yes, we are righteous in Christ, when we are justified. But no, we don’t just float away into heavenly oblivion from that day. Sounds so New Agey to me! Instead, when we are saved, the Holy Spirit leads us daily in the process of santification, and growing and learning how to serve and please God, how to glorify God, and how to share the truth gospel with others. The Christian walk is a joyous one, but not because it is all flowers and sunshine, but rather because Christ is molding and shaping us to conform to his image. Sometimes that is hard - it means reshaping a faulty pot. It means suffering and fighting against the crowd. It means keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus, not on our freedom or any other side issues.
”Therefore, since through God’s mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart. 2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to everyone’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake. 6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God’s glory displayed in the face of Christ.7 But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from Godand not from us. 8 We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; 9 persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed. 10 We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body. 11 For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that his life may also be revealed in our mortal body. 12 So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.
13 It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.” Since we have that same spirit of faith, we also believe and therefore speak, 14 because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself.15 All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.
16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. 17 For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. 18 So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.” 2 Cor. 4:1-18
(Sorry about the long verses, I really was looking at verse 7, but the rest was so amazing, I just had to post it!)
That is the problem with everything you post! It is ministered through the lens of an heretical gospel!
I also believe the Holy Spirit comes alongside daily and leads and guides me. I couldn’t make it through a day without the Holy
Spirit helping me, ministering to me, comforting me, rebuking me and showing me how I need to change and grow.
And that is the part you always miss out on. You stop at “our righteousness in Jesus” with a goal not found in Scripture “to walk in the freedom Jesus died on the cross to give us.”
In fact, Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins. He died to make us righteous in God’s eyes. His death and resurrection, and ascension to heaven, followed by the coming of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost, was so that we might be first be saved from our sins, and then transformed from what we were before - unrighteousness, haters of God.
“But understand this, that in the last days difficult times will come. 2 For people will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 unloving, irreconcilable, slanderers, without self-control, savage, opposed to what is good, 4 treacherous, reckless, conceited, loving pleasure rather than loving God. 5 They will maintain the outward appearance of religion but will have repudiated its power. So avoid people like these. 6 For some of these insinuate themselves into households and captivate weak women who are overwhelmed with sins and led along by various passions. 7 Such women are always seeking instruction, yet never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.” 2 Tim. 3:1-7
Our goal as Christians isn’t some kind of vague idea of freedom - our goal is to be righteous. We are made positionally righteous in Christ when we are saved! Hallelujah! (Romans 5:1)
But then, we have to walk with Christ, the journey, the process of becoming like him.
”Do not be conformed to this present world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may test and approve what is the will of God—what is good and well-pleasing and perfect.” Romans 12:2
Galatians is an interesting book. It is the only epistle where Paul does not compliment the people on their work for the Lord. Instead, he launches into a tirade about how they are following another gospel, and false teachers.
How ironical that JP, a false teacher, writes about “freedom in Christ” forgetting that we are only free when we are following the truth of God’s Word. That IS the message of Galatians.
Because yes, we are righteous in Christ, when we are justified. But no, we don’t just float away into heavenly oblivion from that day. Sounds so New Agey to me! Instead, when we are saved, the Holy Spirit leads us daily in the process of santification, and growing and learning how to serve and please God, how to glorify God, and how to share the truth gospel with others. The Christian walk is a joyous one, but not because it is all flowers and sunshine, but rather because Christ is molding and shaping us to conform to his image. Sometimes that is hard - it means reshaping a faulty pot. It means suffering and fighting against the crowd. It means keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus, not on our freedom or any other side issues.
”Therefore, since through God’s mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart. 2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to everyone’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake. 6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God’s glory displayed in the face of Christ.7 But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from Godand not from us. 8 We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; 9 persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed. 10 We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body. 11 For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that his life may also be revealed in our mortal body. 12 So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.
13 It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.” Since we have that same spirit of faith, we also believe and therefore speak, 14 because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself.15 All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.
16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. 17 For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. 18 So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.” 2 Cor. 4:1-18
(Sorry about the long verses, I really was looking at verse 7, but the rest was so amazing, I just had to post it!)
I'm sorry to see you came back to argue on this thread Angela. I am not saying anything that is not in the Bible nor am I saying what you have posted here in yet another one of your accusatory mean and nasty posts.
The Bible says we are today at present "Righteous" not we will be or we hope to be. We ARE already new creations in Christ and we take that truth and walk it out each day "reckoning" it to be true because the Bible says so... not because we "feel" so. The issue of walking by faith and not by sight must be dealt with.., we walk by faith and not by sight.
Because sin shall not have dominion over us because we are not under law but under grace.
Romans 6:11
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For by the death He died, He died to sin [ending His relation to it] once for all; and the life that He lives, He is living to God [in unbroken fellowship with Him].
[SUP]
11 [/SUP]Even so consider yourselves also dead to sin and your relation to it broken, but alive to God [living in unbroken fellowship with Him] in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]
12 [/SUP]Let not sin therefore rule as king in your mortal (short-lived, perishable) bodies, to make you yield to its cravings and be subject to its lusts and evil passions.
[SUP]
13 [/SUP]Do not continue offering or yielding your bodily members [and [SUP][a][/SUP]faculties] to sin as instruments (tools) of wickedness. But offer and yield yourselves to God as though you have been raised from the dead to [perpetual] life, and your bodily members [and [SUP][b][/SUP]faculties] to God, presenting them as implements of righteousness.
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]For sin shall not [any longer] exert dominion over you, since now you are not under Law [as slaves], but under grace [as subjects of God’s favor and mercy].
The Bible says we are today at present "Righteous" not we will be or we hope to be. We ARE already new creations in Christ and we take that truth and walk it out each day "reckoning" it to be true because the Bible says so... not because we "feel" so. The issue of walking by faith and not by sight must be dealt with.., we walk by faith and not by sight.
Because sin shall not have dominion over us because we are not under law but under grace.
Romans 6:11
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For by the death He died, He died to sin [ending His relation to it] once for all; and the life that He lives, He is living to God [in unbroken fellowship with Him].
[SUP]
11 [/SUP]Even so consider yourselves also dead to sin and your relation to it broken, but alive to God [living in unbroken fellowship with Him] in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]
12 [/SUP]Let not sin therefore rule as king in your mortal (short-lived, perishable) bodies, to make you yield to its cravings and be subject to its lusts and evil passions.
[SUP]
13 [/SUP]Do not continue offering or yielding your bodily members [and [SUP][a][/SUP]faculties] to sin as instruments (tools) of wickedness. But offer and yield yourselves to God as though you have been raised from the dead to [perpetual] life, and your bodily members [and [SUP][b][/SUP]faculties] to God, presenting them as implements of righteousness.
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]For sin shall not [any longer] exert dominion over you, since now you are not under Law [as slaves], but under grace [as subjects of God’s favor and mercy].
Can Incorruptible become corrupted?How would you harmonize being born AGAIN of INCORRUPTIBLE seed with a person can become unsaved by returning because If they can make a choice to become unsaved then why does the bible say for we are HIS workmanship created In CHRIST unto good works and why does the bible say Incorruptible seed Instead of of Incorruptible depending on the persons will?
The Holy Spirit never contradicts the Bible but people always do that. That is why we NEED the Holy Spirit to lead us personally and daily.
Romans 15:13-14
[SUP]13 [/SUP]May the God of your hope so fill you with all joy and peace in believing [through the experience of your faith] that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound and be overflowing (bubbling over) with hope.
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]Personally I am satisfied about you, my brethren, that you yourselves are rich in goodness, amply filled with all [spiritual] knowledge and competent to admonish and counsel and instruct one another also.
Whereas some will say this joy is not translated into our daily lives physically., I totally disagree. Often times and on a regular basis the JOY and peace that comes translates into my daily life personally empowering and energizing me to do the things needed. Without the Holy Spirit the things done each day are dry old religion that is trying to put new wine into old wine skins. It doesn't work.
No, that is why we need to know the Bible! The Holy Spirit will never lead us astray! Of course not! But, there are secular voices and wolves voices and false voices, and the desires of the flesh that will masquerade as an angel of light and deceive us and lead us astray! I know, because someone in this very forum, led me astray with regards to hypergrace. And me with an MDiv, who has deeply studied the Bible, and understand it. So, some of the people here led me back from that precipice, for which I am forever grateful. But, hypergrace, and you have continued to post about it, is the worst use of Bible, the most twisted way to read the Bible I literally have ever seen or heard of! (And no, he should NEVER be allowed to come back!)
I was at a Bible study last night, they were doing the book of James by Beth Moore. It all sounded so “Bibley!” But it was eisigesis after fantasy, after not even close to the verse, and a bunch of utter nonsense in the middle, and a conclusion that was irrelevant. I almost ran screaming out of the room, it was so BAD! But, I decided I would just keep my mouth shut and not come to the rest of the series.
Then, the woman who wanted to see this series, who is 80 years old, and knows the Bible, started on about what great teaching, and the comparisons, and a few others said, they agreed. All old, long time Christians who know their Bible.
After a while mouthy me could not hold it in. I said it was terrible, there was almost not a word she said that was true, other than James being Jesus half brother. (Meanwhile, I had been reading my Greek exegetical book, about which James it was, external and internally evidence, which people in the group asked about! That should have been covered!)
Anyway, the first woman just glared at me, and said “So you won’t be coming?” Like I would be left out, excluded from the group, and I said, absolutely, I could not sit through anything like that again! Group exclusion, because I don’t want to watch a false teacher doesn’t bother me at all. And I listed some more reasons why, including that Beth Moore has absolutely no training in interpretation of the Bible. (The elderly woman said she did, but Moores’ bio said no.)
So, What does that have to do with what you are saying? Simply because, we do need to know the Bible, but we also need sound principles of interpreting the Bible, (hermeneutics) like context, how one exegetes a passage, as opposed to eisigesis (or a complete fantasy, in the case of Beth Moore) -that has nothing to do with the text at all.
Every single copy and paste you put up does NOT interpret the Bible correctly. It makes verses say things they were never meant to say, they miss context, they miss the goal of the book, the passage, they miss who the audience the verse was written for. The application is cobbled together, “Here’s what I believe, so take these bits and pieces and read INTO the Bible and the verses will support my view. my pre-determined, long before I went in search of verses to support MY opinions/theories,” rather than reading the passage and taking OUT of it, what the Word of God is actually saying!
And just because Paul, at the end of Romans says he figures they are ready to teach and instruct one another, doesn’t mean we can apply that to ourselves. That is reading into it something that is not there.
We always need to look at whom the recipients of the letters or passages were written, or why they were written. Your entire OP just skips over the circumstances of why Galatians was written - to correct some major errors. You seem to think experience (yours with the Holy Spirit) trumps the written word, because the written word says you can!
Sorry if you don’t like it that I make comments on your threads. I do it, because I care about all the people who might be led astray, especially the ones who are reading outside the forum. I used to do it, because I hoped to show you how wrong these false teachers are, but the Holy Spirit showed me that I have done my best, your heart is hard.
No, you do not listen to the Holy Spirit - you listen to false voices, that say what you want to hear!
”And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. 13 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.” 2 Cor. 11:12-15[FONT="]
Paul Ellis, Joseph Prince masquerade as servants of righteousness. It is sad! But, no one else needs to get caught in this terrible lie! So, I will continue to read your posts and answer them politely, but firmly, rebuking the errors. Which is actually easy, because these people really do not have a clue how to interpret the Bible. Not my principles, but the principles which lead to correct doctrine, and correct living. Not a gospel that slams people who are sick or poor, or depressed and need to know the truth, not a superficial “feel good” not-a-gospel at all.
This is how Paul started his letter to the Galatians, which JP pulls out a devotional from the 3rd chapter.
”[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are following a different gospel— 7 not that there really is another gospel, but there are some who are disturbing you and wanting to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we (or an angel from heaven) should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be condemned to hell! 9 As we have said before, and now I say again, if any one is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, let him be condemned to hell!!” Gal. 1:6-9 [FONT="]
You need to read the rest of Galatians with this in mind!
And, from where comes this constant fear you are going to end up in old wineskins? That is directly out of the mouths of charismatics. I know, I went to those kinds of churches for 15 years, before I starting seeing big holes in the theology. It was always about those “dead dry old churches.”
Like studying the Bible and walking with Christ could ever be a dead, dry experience! If you are experiencing dryness, pick up and read. Go to a better church, with more hermeneutical preaching. I would be dead and dry if all I had to go on were these shallow, poorly written and certainly exegetically wrong devotionals. The real old wine skins, is the charismatic movement, which kind of ran dry, until in the 1980’s, the Word Faith “revelation” (and I use the term very, very loosely) took off. Then, that got boring and dry, so hypergrace was the next false offshoot. That is the real dryness, the real “not hearing from the Holy Spirit!”
The fact is, experience is wonderful. I don’t know how I could live as a Christian without that personal and real touch from God. BUT, it is the Bible, read and interpreted in context, that is so deep, and rich and wide, it NEVER RUNS DRY!
The new wine is right in the pages of the Bible! The variety in the Word can keep us from ever going thirsty. You don’t have to subsist on these pale shadows of the Word of God.
“[/FONT][FONT="]6 [/FONT]My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge;
because you have rejected knowledge,” Hosea 4:6a[FONT="]
I read the above passage the other day, in my daily readings. The context is important. Hosea is talking to the people of Israel and their false prophets, oh, and their “new wine” which God rejects.
Read the Bible for yourself. Stop posting these appalling devotionals which false teachers twist to their own ends, to deceive foolish women! After watching Beth Moore (and I realize she has nothing to do with what you have written) I see a dearth of understanding on how to interpret the Bible, especially among women, who have been put down and told they cannot teach men, some seminaries won’t let them learn proper hermeneutics or what good preaching is, and that Satan is having a field day deceiving women who have never been taught to read and interpret the Bible correctly! (Which I never saw so clearly as last night, with Beth Moore, a woman who has never been properly trained, and is now deceiving other untrained women. But I digress, sorry!)[/FONT]
If people are reading other books pertaing to the bible, they are most likely being lead astray by other doctrines. People will do anything to make a dollar. The day I got serious about God and wanting to know the real truth, because of so many beliefs and not knowing which was true. He told me to read the bible and the bible only and that the Holy Spirit would reveal the truth to me.And so he did. I will never read another's book or any other book for that matter. I read only the bible where there is real knowledge of God.
This is not to be taken as valid at face value!
There are plenty of books that are very valuable in understanding the Bible.
The fact that there are others that are not does not change the value of the useful books, in fact it may even enhance their value!
What you do is your own personal matter, but, by posting this advice, and it is advice you are suggesting that others follow your advice!
The fact is that God gave us a brain.
He also gave us the Holy Spirit.
And He also gave us the Bible!
In addition, if you were to be true to your own philosophy, you should not be on this forum - so much of what is shared here is completely contrary to Biblical truth, the sincerity of the contributors notwithstanding....
There are plenty of books that are very valuable in understanding the Bible.
The fact that there are others that are not does not change the value of the useful books, in fact it may even enhance their value!
What you do is your own personal matter, but, by posting this advice, and it is advice you are suggesting that others follow your advice!
The fact is that God gave us a brain.
He also gave us the Holy Spirit.
And He also gave us the Bible!
In addition, if you were to be true to your own philosophy, you should not be on this forum - so much of what is shared here is completely contrary to Biblical truth, the sincerity of the contributors notwithstanding....
I thought so too., but I did what God told me to to because I sincerely had a desire to know the truth,and that meant no longer listening to other people. Don't get me wrong here. This lesson was to let me know who was telling the truth. Every since I got saved, I only listened to DR. Charles Stanley,,and he is the only one I will listen to.
Well, do you go to church?
If you do, then you are listening to sermons prepared by a pastor who has used numerous sources...
And, yes, he has used those sources to attempt to close with Biblical truth!
Hopefully the same is true of Charles Stanley.
All that is happening is that you are delegating your reading to others.....
If you do, then you are listening to sermons prepared by a pastor who has used numerous sources...
And, yes, he has used those sources to attempt to close with Biblical truth!
Hopefully the same is true of Charles Stanley.
All that is happening is that you are delegating your reading to others.....
I'm sorry to see you came back to argue on this thread Angela. I am not saying anything that is not in the Bible nor am I saying what you have posted here in yet another one of your accusatory mean and nasty posts.
The Bible says we are today at present "Righteous" not we will be or we hope to be. We ARE already new creations in Christ and we take that truth and walk it out each day "reckoning" it to be true because the Bible says so... not because we "feel" so. The issue of walking by faith and not by sight must be dealt with.., we walk by faith and not by sight.
Because sin shall not have dominion over us because we are not under law but under grace.
Romans 6:11
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For by the death He died, He died to sin [ending His relation to it] once for all; and the life that He lives, He is living to God [in unbroken fellowship with Him].
[SUP]
11 [/SUP]Even so consider yourselves also dead to sin and your relation to it broken, but alive to God [living in unbroken fellowship with Him] in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]
12 [/SUP]Let not sin therefore rule as king in your mortal (short-lived, perishable) bodies, to make you yield to its cravings and be subject to its lusts and evil passions.
[SUP]
13 [/SUP]Do not continue offering or yielding your bodily members [and [SUP][a][/SUP]faculties] to sin as instruments (tools) of wickedness. But offer and yield yourselves to God as though you have been raised from the dead to [perpetual] life, and your bodily members [and [SUP][b][/SUP]faculties] to God, presenting them as implements of righteousness.
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]For sin shall not [any longer] exert dominion over you, since now you are not under Law [as slaves], but under grace [as subjects of God’s favor and mercy].[/QUOTE]
The Bible says we are today at present "Righteous" not we will be or we hope to be. We ARE already new creations in Christ and we take that truth and walk it out each day "reckoning" it to be true because the Bible says so... not because we "feel" so. The issue of walking by faith and not by sight must be dealt with.., we walk by faith and not by sight.
Because sin shall not have dominion over us because we are not under law but under grace.
Romans 6:11
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For by the death He died, He died to sin [ending His relation to it] once for all; and the life that He lives, He is living to God [in unbroken fellowship with Him].
[SUP]
11 [/SUP]Even so consider yourselves also dead to sin and your relation to it broken, but alive to God [living in unbroken fellowship with Him] in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]
12 [/SUP]Let not sin therefore rule as king in your mortal (short-lived, perishable) bodies, to make you yield to its cravings and be subject to its lusts and evil passions.
[SUP]
13 [/SUP]Do not continue offering or yielding your bodily members [and [SUP][a][/SUP]faculties] to sin as instruments (tools) of wickedness. But offer and yield yourselves to God as though you have been raised from the dead to [perpetual] life, and your bodily members [and [SUP][b][/SUP]faculties] to God, presenting them as implements of righteousness.
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]For sin shall not [any longer] exert dominion over you, since now you are not under Law [as slaves], but under grace [as subjects of God’s favor and mercy].[/QUOTE]
It makes me think of Colossians 2:10
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And you [SUP][a][/SUP]are in Him, made full and having come to fullness of life [in Christ you too are filled with the Godhead—Father, Son and Holy Spirit—and reach full spiritual stature]. And He is the Head of all rule and authority [of every angelic principality and power].
[SUP]
11 [/SUP]In Him also you were circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, but in a [spiritual] circumcision [performed by] Christ by stripping off the body of the flesh (the whole corrupt, carnal nature with its passions and lusts).
[SUP]
12 [/SUP][Thus [SUP][b][/SUP]you were circumcised when] you were buried with Him in [your] baptism, in which you were also raised with Him [[SUP][c][/SUP]to a new life] through [your] faith in the working of God [[SUP][d][/SUP]as displayed] when He raised Him up from the dead.
[SUP]
13 [/SUP]And you who were dead in trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your flesh (your sensuality, your sinful carnal nature), [God] brought to life together with [Christ], having [freely] forgiven us all our transgressions,
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]Having cancelled and blotted out and wiped away the handwriting of the note (bond) with its legal decrees and demands which was in force and stood against us (hostile to us). This [note with its regulations, decrees, and demands] He set aside and cleared [SUP][e][/SUP]completely out of our way by nailing it to [His] cross.
This is such a hard thing to grasp as true when we are living in and through the mind of the flesh. What we can't see, we don't believe. But the Bible calls us to live by the very things we cannot see because those things are eternal., not the things we see with our eyes.
Yet even we Christians are not comfortable there. We are so accustomed to living in the flesh it's impossible for us to see spiritually and so we take apart the Scriptures from a human reasoning standpoint. Thereby nullifying the faith required to live our lives in.
Each day I have to adjust my thinking to the new and living way because the flesh is so very present and in my face. But by faith it is done because of the Holy Spirit living inside and doing His ministering of teaching and comforting as we dare to step out by faith in our new creation in Christ. We have been born again... made new creations. Old things have passed away.
A mind adjustment is about reckoning what is the truth and submitting to the obedience of faith. Declaring it to be true by faith and walking in faith instead of human reason. This I've discovered is a daily reckoning to be done over and over just like exercising. The more familiar I become with who Christ is and who I am in Christ., the more usual it is to come to faith and live by faith then it was the day before.
The Holy Spirit comes along side and ministers to our spirits that we are the righteous sons of God. He show us our righteousness in Jesus so we can walk in the freedom Jesus died on the cross to gave us.
Re posting to clarify
We can make the scriptures "God" When I say that - it is really our "interpretation" of the scriptures that we make to be a "god" in our own mind. Without the Holy Spirit's revelation to show us Christ - we are at the mercy of our own religious un-renewed minds.
The Bible is not a roadmap or instruction manual in a"completed" sense. The Bible is NOT God - God breathed - inspired - YES!
But the Bible is a book about Jesus. The Bible is not an end to itself - the Bible speaks of Jesus. He is the true reality that the scriptures speak off ( This is why there is so much controversy on the Sabbath Day issue )
Jesus said "...you search the scriptures because you think ( human reasoning ) "in them" you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life." John 5:39-40
Reading the Bible without wanting to know and see Jesus and the Father for whom they truly are is like reading someone else's love letters. You might learn a few things about love but this will not move you toward the one who wrote the letters.
Some people get confused because they think the Bible has all the answers - it does not. It does however point us to the One who "is"the answer! James never said - "If anyone lacks wisdom you should study the Bible - He said - you should ask God Himself. James 1:5 ( God may use a verse in the scriptures or a word from another teacher...etc )
God surely speaks to us through the Bible but if the Bible doesn't lead you to the revelation of the One called Wisdom - you will be no wiser than a Pharisee. If we look for Jesus - the Holy Spirit will reveal Him in the Old Testament.
A mis-guided ( albeit maybe a well intentioned ) teacher/preacher will use the scriptures to tell you what you should do, but a grace/Christ oriented teacher/preacher will use the scriptures to show you what Jesus has done and who you are in Him now because we are in Christ and He is in us. The Holy Spirit in us teaches/guides/reveals to us Jesus and the Father's true character and finished work.
Read the scriptures with the view to "see" Jesus. In Him we see the heart and will of the Father being manifested on this earth. The best translation of the Bible is Jesus!
He is the "living word" within the written word and He is flawless and free of translation errors. All of man's translations have biases and inaccuracies. Sometimes translators give their "doctrinal beliefs" when translating a verse or word.
The scriptures teach us that we are not living by the teaching of the Bible per se - we are living by the life of Christ in us. The source of our life is not the Bible - the source of our life is the Lord Jesus Christ and the Father.
In the Old Testament when it refers to "the word of God" and the life it brings - it was in reality talking about "the living word of God" ( Jesus Himself ) - of which the scriptures are a "shadow" of the real substance - Jesus. ( another reason why strict Sabbath Keepers cannot see Christ as our true Sabbath rest now in the New Covenant - they are stuck in the shadow and think that it is the real )
The Bible shows us the ways Jesus Christ wants to express His life through us to a hurt and dying world. In Him we live, move and have our being. The Bible leads us to the source of life = Jesus Himself.
The Bible is NOT God but we can make our own interpretations of the Bible to be our "god" in our own un-renewed minds. The Holy Spirit has come in us to show us the things "of Christ" and reveal them to us - His beloved children.
Unquote
I agree with this 100%. The reason people get the Bible all mixed up is that Jesus is not being seen or revealed.
Re posting for clarification. This was emailed to me by a dear friend who wrote this in his journal. I 100% agree with him and find that it is very needed on my thread here too.
Is Jesus expressing His live through me? I think that is a question each of us has to ask ourselves about OURSELVES. The best translation of the Bible is JESUS. I hope people will read this in the matter of truly agreeing to disagree about our different theologies and find Jesus in all the posts here.
The Bible is not a roadmap or instruction manual in a"completed" sense. The Bible is NOT God - God breathed - inspired - YES!
But the Bible is a book about Jesus. The Bible is not an end to itself - the Bible speaks of Jesus. He is the true reality that the scriptures speak off ( This is why there is so much controversy on the Sabbath Day issue )
Jesus said "...you search the scriptures because you think ( human reasoning ) "in them" you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life." John 5:39-40
Reading the Bible without wanting to know and see Jesus and the Father for whom they truly are is like reading someone else's love letters. You might learn a few things about love but this will not move you toward the one who wrote the letters.
Some people get confused because they think the Bible has all the answers - it does not. It does however point us to the One who "is"the answer! James never said - "If anyone lacks wisdom you should study the Bible - He said - you should ask God Himself. James 1:5 ( God may use a verse in the scriptures or a word from another teacher...etc )
God surely speaks to us through the Bible but if the Bible doesn't lead you to the revelation of the One called Wisdom - you will be no wiser than a Pharisee. If we look for Jesus - the Holy Spirit will reveal Him in the Old Testament.
A mis-guided ( albeit maybe a well intentioned ) teacher/preacher will use the scriptures to tell you what you should do, but a grace/Christ oriented teacher/preacher will use the scriptures to show you what Jesus has done and who you are in Him now because we are in Christ and He is in us. The Holy Spirit in us teaches/guides/reveals to us Jesus and the Father's true character and finished work.
Read the scriptures with the view to "see" Jesus. In Him we see the heart and will of the Father being manifested on this earth. The best translation of the Bible is Jesus!
He is the "living word" within the written word and He is flawless and free of translation errors. All of man's translations have biases and inaccuracies. Sometimes translators give their "doctrinal beliefs" when translating a verse or word.
The scriptures teach us that we are not living by the teaching of the Bible per se - we are living by the life of Christ in us. The source of our life is not the Bible - the source of our life is the Lord Jesus Christ and the Father.
In the Old Testament when it refers to "the word of God" and the life it brings - it was in reality talking about "the living word of God" ( Jesus Himself ) - of which the scriptures are a "shadow" of the real substance - Jesus. ( another reason why strict Sabbath Keepers cannot see Christ as our true Sabbath rest now in the New Covenant - they are stuck in the shadow and think that it is the real )
The Bible shows us the ways Jesus Christ wants to express His life through us to a hurt and dying world. In Him we live, move and have our being. The Bible leads us to the source of life = Jesus Himself.
The Bible is NOT God but we can make our own interpretations of the Bible to be our "god" in our own un-renewed minds. The Holy Spirit has come in us to show us the things "of Christ" and reveal them to us - His beloved children.
Unquote
I agree with this 100%. The reason people get the Bible all mixed up is that Jesus is not being seen or revealed.
Re posting for clarification. This was emailed to me by a dear friend who wrote this in his journal. I 100% agree with him and find that it is very needed on my thread here too.
Is Jesus expressing His live through me? I think that is a question each of us has to ask ourselves about OURSELVES. The best translation of the Bible is JESUS. I hope people will read this in the matter of truly agreeing to disagree about our different theologies and find Jesus in all the posts here.
I very much agree. The Bible says that we are not left alone here to fend for ourselves to be tossed all over the place wondering who has the truth and who we should listen to. God has given each one of us the Holy Spirit to be with us for just these kinds of issues. We also have the Bible and have been made new by what Jesus did for us in the new birth., as well as the gifts He gave to the church by way of Eph.4:11-16
As born again Christians are not to panic and worry or fret as some would have us think that we are not learned enough... or smart enough.... or schooled enough to trust the Holy Spirit in us and the Bible ourselves. We have access every minute to the best teacher and comforter the HolySpirit.
We have the Bible in many translations and we have other believers in the church body. Some people would have us never leave the house., never meet new people., never minister to others for fear we would be lead astray. I have confidence in the provisions Jesus has provided us with. And He tells us not to fear but to have faith in His ability to keep us.
[SUP]
11 [/SUP]And His gifts were [varied; He Himself appointed and gave men to us] some to be apostles (special messengers), some prophets (inspired preachers and expounders), some evangelists (preachers of the Gospel, traveling missionaries), some pastors (shepherds of His flock) and teachers.
[SUP]
12 [/SUP]His intention was the perfecting and the full equipping of the saints (His consecrated people), [that they should do] the work of ministering toward building up Christ’s body (the church),
[SUP]
13 [/SUP][That it might develop] until we all attain oneness in the faith and in the comprehension of the [[SUP][a][/SUP]full and accurate] knowledge of the Son of God, that [we might arrive] at really mature manhood (the completeness of personality which is nothing less than the standard height of Christ’s own perfection), the measure of the stature of the fullness of the Christ and the completeness found in Him.
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]So then, we may no longer be children, tossed [like ships] to and fro between chance gusts of teaching and wavering with every changing wind of doctrine, [the prey of] the cunning and cleverness of [SUP][b][/SUP]unscrupulous men, [gamblers engaged] in every shifting form of trickery in inventing errors to mislead.
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]Rather, let our lives lovingly [SUP][c][/SUP]express truth [in all things, speaking truly, dealing truly, living truly]. Enfolded in love, let us grow up in every way and in all things into Him Who is the Head, [even] Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]For because of Him the whole body (the church, in all its various parts), closely joined and firmly knit together by the joints and ligaments with which it is supplied, when each part [with power adapted to its need] is working properly [in all its functions], grows to full maturity, building itself up in love.
Gabriel, I spent many years reading only the Bible. They were incredibly fruitful years. But God told me to read other books, and also to go to seminary, where I read a lot more books. That is where I learned discernment, and who and what to trust. And that is it always ok to disagree with the books and writings of men. But ultimately, that God and the Bible were ALWAYS the first, final and only reference point.
I have learned a lot from men and women who were submitted to God, and well trained. From my professors, pastors I have sat under, and in books. But, if a book tells me to trust it, or to just depend on only the Holy Spirit because one verse says, the Holy Spirit will lead you in all truth, well, I know that isn’t right. This is another verse torn out of context.
”When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.” John 16:13-14[FONT="]
In fact, the context is Jesus speaking to his disciples about his crucifixion and what is to come. And the birth of the church and the Holy Spirit coming in Acts 2. It does NOT say, you don’t need the Bible. Those Jewish men and women would have thrown anyone who said that out of their assemblies. They KNEW the importance of the written word. And when the NT was made, they knew how valuable it was in teaching and instructing.
It would have been totally foreign to the entire context of what Jesus was saying, in the surrounding verses, but also completely out of context to their understanding of the first century understanding of the Word of God. This passage really sums up the whole myth of just abandoning the Word of God, and let some amorphous, undefined spirit guide you.
”[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]But evil people and charlatans will go from bad to worse, deceiving others and being deceived themselves. 14 You, however, must continue in the things you have learned and are confident about. You know who taught you 15 and how from infancy you have known the holy writings, which are able to give you wisdom for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the person dedicated to God may be capable and equipped for every good work.” 2 Tim. 3:13-17[FONT="]
The fact is, Paul told Timothy to continue in the things he had learned and known - since infancy - from THE HOLY WRITINGS! And that is how we are equipped. So, we need to read John 16:13 in context of what is being said, and remembering what the rest of the Bible says, especially passages like this!
And we should never promote doctrines which say we really only need the Holy Spirit, which is a complete untruth! We DO need the Holy Spirit, but we also need to know the Bible, and especially how to read it correctly! [/FONT]
Reposting, just to clarify!
Really, that is so absurd. Clarifying means you look back and explain it differently so it has more meaning to the reader.
”:make something clear or easier to understand by giving more details or a simpler explanation: Eg. Could you clarify the first pointplease? I don't understand it completely.
The position of all shareholders will be clarified next month when we finalize our proposals.”
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/clarify
Sorry for mocking! Sometimes the BDF seems like Theatre of the Absurd to me!