GALATIANS 3:5....BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW OR BY THE HEARING OF FAITH?

[Nehemiah6]

Since JM has posted and reposted this but has not disclosed the author, this re-post requires a REBUTTAL. It is a mixture of truth and error (which is what JM is in the habit of posting). So let's look at all the fallacies contained in this gem.

We can make the scriptures "God". When I say that - it is really our "interpretation" of the scriptures that we make to be a "god" in our own mind. Without the Holy Spirit's revelation to show us Christ - we are at the mercy of our own religious un-renewed minds.

This writer has falsely assumed that (1) when Christians are legitimately interpreting Scripture they are making it "a god" and (2) Christians are generally interpreting Scripture with an "un-renewed" mind. So this is extremely insulting to begin with, and quite untrue at the same time.

The Bible is not a roadmap or instruction manual in a"completed" sense. The Bible is NOT God - God breathed - inspired - YES!

The Bible is indeed a roadmap for Christians. In fact Peter tells us that God has given us all things necessary for life and godliness in the Bible, and so does Paul. To say that "the Bible is not God" is once again to insult all Bible-believing Christians. So only the Devil would tell us such things.

But the Bible is a book about Jesus. The Bible is not an end to itself - the Bible speaks of Jesus. He is the true reality that the scriptures speak off ( This is why there is so much controversy on the Sabbath Day issue )

Yes, the Bible is a book about Jesus, but that would be satisfactory for 7 year olds. It is clearly more than a book about Jesus, since God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are also included in the Bible. Not to mention the myriad of other subjects which the Bible deals with. So this is pure condescension.

Jesus said "...you search the scriptures because you think ( human reasoning ) "in them" you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life." John 5:39-40
Reading the Bible without wanting to know and see Jesus and the Father for whom they truly are is like reading someone else's love letters. You might learn a few things about love but this will not move you toward the one who wrote the letters.

More insulting presumption and condescension. Which genuine Christian does not read the Bible to know more about Christ and God? Yet there is no mention of the Holy Spirit who is the Author of this Book.

Some people get confused because they think the Bible has all the answers - it does not.

If the Devil were addressing us, he could not have said it any better. While God tells us that the Bible is "the Sword of the Spirit" this foolish person tells us that the Bible does NOT have all the answers. That is akin to saying "Yea, hath God said...?"

It does however point us to the One who "is"the answer! James never said - "If anyone lacks wisdom you should study the Bible - He said - you should ask God Himself. James 1:5 ( God may use a verse in the scriptures or a word from another teacher...etc )

Now this person misquotes James and misapplies what he said about wisdom. The truth is that wisdom comes BOTH from God Himself as well as His written Word -- which actually has a section called "the Wisdom books".

God surely speaks to us through the Bible but if the Bible doesn't lead you to the revelation of the One called Wisdom - you will be no wiser than a Pharisee. If we look for Jesus - the Holy Spirit will reveal Him in the Old Testament.

Since the purpose of the Bible is indeed to lead us to God and to Christ, and ultimately to lead us to salvation, this is simply gratuitous. Wisdom is NOT the primary objective of the Bible. Rather It is the "grace of God which bringeth salvation to all men".

A mis-guided ( albeit maybe a well intentioned ) teacher/preacher will use the scriptures to tell you what you should do, but a grace/Christ oriented teacher/preacher will use the scriptures to show you what Jesus has done and who you are in Him now because we are in Christ and He is in us.

So now we come to the essence of oll this foolish talk. It is Hyper-Grace false doctrine that is being promoted here. The true preacher will tell you BOTH what you should do and what Christ has done. The Hyper-Grace preacher will tell you to simply ignore your present sins and not deal with them.

The Holy Spirit in us teaches/guides/reveals to us Jesus and the Father's true character and finished work.

True enough. But the Hyper-Grace people always present HALF-TRUTHS. The Holy Spirit will also tell us through the apostle John that if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. And if we say we have no sin we make God a liar. How come this uncomfortable teaching was deliberately omitted.

Christians should always be on guard against half-truths and outright falsehoods parading as "homilies". They originate with the Devil. And JM has been admonished numerous times to stop posting spiritual nonsense.

 

[joaniemarie]

I very much agree. The Bible says that we are not left alone here to fend for ourselves to be tossed all over the place wondering who has the truth and who we should listen to. God has given each one of us the Holy Spirit to be with us for just these kinds of issues. We also have the Bible and have been made new by what Jesus did for us in the new birth., as well as the gifts He gave to the church by way of Eph.4:11-16


As born again Christians are not to panic and worry or fret as some would have us think that we are not learned enough... or smart enough.... or schooled enough to trust the Holy Spirit in us and the Bible ourselves. We have access every minute to the best teacher and comforter the HolySpirit.


We have the Bible in many translations and we have other believers in the church body. Some people would have us never leave the house., never meet new people., never minister to others for fear we would be lead astray. I have confidence in the provisions Jesus has provided us with. And He tells us not to fear but to have faith in His ability to keep us.

[SUP]
11 [/SUP]And His gifts were [varied; He Himself appointed and gave men to us] some to be apostles (special messengers), some prophets (inspired preachers and expounders), some evangelists (preachers of the Gospel, traveling missionaries), some pastors (shepherds of His flock) and teachers.
[SUP]
12 [/SUP]His intention was the perfecting and the full equipping of the saints (His consecrated people), [that they should do] the work of ministering toward building up Christ’s body (the church),
[SUP]
13 [/SUP][That it might develop] until we all attain oneness in the faith and in the comprehension of the [[SUP][a][/SUP]full and accurate] knowledge of the Son of God, that [we might arrive] at really mature manhood (the completeness of personality which is nothing less than the standard height of Christ’s own perfection), the measure of the stature of the fullness of the Christ and the completeness found in Him.
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]So then, we may no longer be children, tossed [like ships] to and fro between chance gusts of teaching and wavering with every changing wind of doctrine, [the prey of] the cunning and cleverness of [SUP][b][/SUP]unscrupulous men, [gamblers engaged] in every shifting form of trickery in inventing errors to mislead.
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]Rather, let our lives lovingly [SUP][c][/SUP]express truth [in all things, speaking truly, dealing truly, living truly]. Enfolded in love, let us grow up in every way and in all things into Him Who is the Head, [even] Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]For because of Him the whole body (the church, in all its various parts), closely joined and firmly knit together by the joints and ligaments with which it is supplied, when each part [with power adapted to its need] is working properly [in all its functions], grows to full maturity, building itself up in love.

Posted again for clarification

 

[joaniemarie]

Our calling is to walk in the Spirit. When we walk in the Spirit we will do the things we are called to do. If we walk in the flesh., it will be IMPOSSIBLE to do anything in the Spirit that is fruitful.

Gal.5:16 But I say, walk and live (habitually) in the (Holy) Spirit responsive to and controlled and guided by the Spirit;, then you will certainly not gratify the cravings and desires of the flesh of human nature without God.[SUP]



22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit [the work which His presence within accomplishes] is love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance), kindness, goodness (benevolence), faithfulness,
[SUP]
23 [/SUP]Gentleness (meekness, humility), self-control (self-restraint, continence). Against such things there is no law [[SUP][a][/SUP]that can bring a charge].
[SUP]
24 [/SUP]And those who belong to Christ Jesus (the Messiah) have crucified the flesh (the godless human nature) with its passions and appetites and desires.
[SUP]
25 [/SUP]If we live by the [Holy] Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. [If by the Holy Spirit [SUP][b][/SUP]we have our life in God, let us go forward [SUP][c][/SUP]walking in line, our conduct controlled by the Spirit.]

 

[joaniemarie]

[FONT=&quot]Found this tonight from E2R and it applied to walking in the Spirit vs the flesh.

20 ways to walk after the flesh[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
1. Try to keep God’s law (Rm 7:9-25): Think that you have to do stuff to be blessed (Eph 1:3), that you have to perform to stay saved (Gal 2:21). The old covenant is the fleshly covenant; the new covenant is the spirit covenant.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
2. Set your mind on earthly things (Php 3:19, Jn 3:12): Keep your eyes on the here and now. “What you see is all there is” (Col 3:2). Entangle yourself in the affairs of life (2 Ti 2:4).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
3. Think about how to gratify the lusts of the flesh (Rm 13:14): If it feels good, do it (Rm 14:17).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
4. Pursue your goal through self-denial (Col 2:21-3): Don’t look. Don’t drink. Don’t touch. Fast twice a week. Practice perfectionism (Gal 3:3, KJV).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
5. Make sacrifices to impress God (Heb 10:1,8): Be conscious of your debt to Jesus and consider it your duty to serve. Put your ministry or business before your marriage.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
6. Load others with heavy burdens (Lk 11:46): Expect your Christian staff to work harder for less pay. Send the message that the work is more important than their families or their health. Shackle them to your vision. Use emotional manipulation or, worse, scripture, to pressure people to support you.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
7. Take pride in your independence (Jer 17:6): Respect no one (1 Pe 2:17). Scorn authority (2 Pet 2:10). Flaunt your freedom (1 Co 8:9). “Who needs fathers? I follow Christ” (1 Co 1:12).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
8. Worry about your life (Mt 6:25, Lk 8:14, Php 4:6): “What shall we eat? What shall we drink? What shall we wear?” Entertain fear and doubt. “I can’t do it” (Php 4:13).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
9. Cultivate self-belief (2 Co 12:10): “I can do it!” Boast in your accomplishments (2 Co 11:30). Boast in your wisdom, strength and riches (Jer 9:23).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
10. See yourself as a victim (Rm 8:37): “Woe is me. I’m not worthy. My sinful nature made me do it.” Blame God (Jas 1:13). Blame the devil (1 Jn 4:4). Blame your circumstances (Deu 28:13).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
11. Be a man-pleaser (Gal 1:10): Wonder, what will my boss think? How will the board react? How will this affect the tithers? Say only what they want you to say.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
12. Make plans in a worldly manner (2 Cor 5:7, Jer 17:5): Do a SWOT analysis; list the pros and cons; make decisions based on money. Manage the risks and stay in control.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
13. Try to grow a ministry (Ps 127:1, 1 Co 3:6). Work hard to make things happen.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
14. Define success by human standards (Jn 8:15, 1 Cor 1:26): It’s all about the numbers. “How many soldiers do we have? How many attend the prayer meeting? Are donations increasing? Are we doing better than last year? Am I doing better than my predecessor?”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
15. Nurture your reputation (Php 3:8): Put on a good show and make a good impression (Lk 16:15; Gal 6:12). Be face conscious. Make a name for yourself (Gen 11:4) and blame the wife when things go wrong (Gen 3:12).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
16. Pray long prayers, especially if others are listening (Mt 6:5-8).

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17. Regard people from a worldly point of view (2 Cor 5:16): Engage in office politics. View new-comers as potential recruits or leaders for your programs. Cultivate task-based friendships. Choose the best-looking man for the job (1 Sam 16:7). Show favor to the one with money (Jas 2:3).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
18. Sacrifice people on the altar of your principles (1 Cor 3:1-4): “I’m right, you’re wrong.” Judge the weak (Rm 15:1). Distance yourselves from those who aren’t as doctrinally pure as you (1 Cor 9:22).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
19. Combat worldly problems with worldly weapons (2 Cor 10:4): Put your faith in politics. Start fights (Zec 4:6). Picket the abortion clinic. Protest the gay parade (Is 42:2).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
20. Pretend to be Jesus (Mt 24:24): Draw people to your ministry and build toward yourself (1 The 3:8). Teach others to depend on you. Stand in the gap. Try to crucify yourself (Col 2:20).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
This is a yukky list and frankly, I didn’t enjoy writing it. Just about everything on this list, I’ve done. God help me, some of the things on this list I’m still doing! Don’t let this list condemn you. A better response is to get mad because we’ve been conned! The prince of this world has deceived us into thinking that this is how things are done, that the fleshly way of life is normal. But this is not normal life for one born of the spirit. We act this way out of habit and ignorance. We walk after the flesh because when we were in the flesh this was how we lived:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. (Col 3:7)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
I have to say this again: Some of the activities on this list are good! Please don’t think I am against the law or fruitful ministries or planning or praying without ceasing. I am not. But understand that the carnal mind longs to be told what to do when God is much more interested in how we are doing it. Are we trusting in the power of our might or are we resting confidently in His? Are we walking as “mere men” (1 Cor 3:3) or are we being revealed as mature sons and daughters of our Father? Flesh cannot give birth to spirit. Neither can walking after the flesh empower you to live the life God has called you to live.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
I encourage you to review the list again and ask the Holy Spirit to help you identify those areas that He wants to deal with today. “But Paul, that’s pretty much everything on that list!” Don’t panic! Your heavenly Father knows you are a work-in-progress. Some of these issues can be dealt with now; others can wait. He loves you regardless, without any reference to your performance. He knows everything that you’ve done and everything that you’re ever going to do. It’s impossible to disappoint Him.

Taken from "Escape To Reality" [/FONT]

 

[HeraldtheNews]

Actually., when I said I don't dance in that post it was in reference to that movie with Harrison Ford "Clear and Present Danger" When answering about doing the old 2 step.. Ryan says "I don't dance" Meaning in on this chat forum I don't dance around questions and answers. Haven't been on cc for a few days so it was nice to see that song posted. That is a really pretty song. Thanks for posting it Herald!

yw! Never heard that song sung by anyone other than Lee Ann, but this singer sings it well and found that there is no relation between Drew Womack and Lee Ann Womack who released the song in 2000--

 

[joaniemarie]

yw! Never heard that song sung by anyone other than Lee Ann, but this singer sings it well and found that there is no relation between Drew Womack and Lee Ann Womack who released the song in 2000--

I've heard it before and couldn't say by who. The song and tune are hard to forget.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

13. Try to grow a ministry (Ps 127:1, 1 Co 3:6). Work hard to make things happen.

This one's laughable. I see what he's saying, but the guy really does need to choose his words better.

 

[joaniemarie]

This one's laughable. I see what he's saying, but the guy really does need to choose his words better.

What a negative Ned you are! Of that whole post all you could come up with is that one negative sentence that actually you didn't understand the significance of anyway. It's not laughable that some people must always look at the glass have empty. When in reality it is full to overflowing. !!!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

What a negative Ned you are! Of that whole post all you could come up with is that one negative sentence that actually you didn't understand the significance of anyway. It's not laughable that some people must always look at the glass have empty. When in reality it is full to overflowing. !!!

I've only skimmed it. I haven't read the whole thing. I might. Might not.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

What a negative Ned you are! Of that whole post all you could come up with is that one negative sentence that actually you didn't understand the significance of anyway. It's not laughable that some people must always look at the glass have empty. When in reality it is full to overflowing. !!!

In retrospect, and in all fairness, I should have removed the first sentence. I read his comment, rolled my eyes, said "here we go again" and wrote the first sentence. Then I checked the verses, realized what he was trying to say and wrote the second.

 

[joaniemarie]

In retrospect, and in all fairness, I should have removed the first sentence. I read his comment, rolled my eyes, said "here we go again" and wrote the first sentence. Then I checked the verses, realized what he was trying to say and wrote the second.

Fair enough.

 

[joaniemarie]

Found this tonight from E2R and it applied to walking in the Spirit vs the flesh.

20 ways to walk after the flesh

1. Try to keep God’s law (Rm 7:9-25): Think that you have to do stuff to be blessed (Eph 1:3), that you have to perform to stay saved (Gal 2:21). The old covenant is the fleshly covenant; the new covenant is the spirit covenant.

2. Set your mind on earthly things (Php 3:19, Jn 3:12): Keep your eyes on the here and now. “What you see is all there is” (Col 3:2). Entangle yourself in the affairs of life (2 Ti 2:4).

3. Think about how to gratify the lusts of the flesh (Rm 13:14): If it feels good, do it (Rm 14:17).

4. Pursue your goal through self-denial (Col 2:21-3): Don’t look. Don’t drink. Don’t touch. Fast twice a week. Practice perfectionism (Gal 3:3, KJV).

5. Make sacrifices to impress God (Heb 10:1,8): Be conscious of your debt to Jesus and consider it your duty to serve. Put your ministry or business before your marriage.

6. Load others with heavy burdens (Lk 11:46): Expect your Christian staff to work harder for less pay. Send the message that the work is more important than their families or their health. Shackle them to your vision. Use emotional manipulation or, worse, scripture, to pressure people to support you.

7. Take pride in your independence (Jer 17:6): Respect no one (1 Pe 2:17). Scorn authority (2 Pet 2:10). Flaunt your freedom (1 Co 8:9). “Who needs fathers? I follow Christ” (1 Co 1:12).

8. Worry about your life (Mt 6:25, Lk 8:14, Php 4:6): “What shall we eat? What shall we drink? What shall we wear?” Entertain fear and doubt. “I can’t do it” (Php 4:13).

9. Cultivate self-belief (2 Co 12:10): “I can do it!” Boast in your accomplishments (2 Co 11:30). Boast in your wisdom, strength and riches (Jer 9:23).

10. See yourself as a victim (Rm 8:37): “Woe is me. I’m not worthy. My sinful nature made me do it.” Blame God (Jas 1:13). Blame the devil (1 Jn 4:4). Blame your circumstances (Deu 28:13).

11. Be a man-pleaser (Gal 1:10): Wonder, what will my boss think? How will the board react? How will this affect the tithers? Say only what they want you to say.

12. Make plans in a worldly manner (2 Cor 5:7, Jer 17:5): Do a SWOT analysis; list the pros and cons; make decisions based on money. Manage the risks and stay in control.

13. Try to grow a ministry (Ps 127:1, 1 Co 3:6). Work hard to make things happen.

14. Define success by human standards (Jn 8:15, 1 Cor 1:26): It’s all about the numbers. “How many soldiers do we have? How many attend the prayer meeting? Are donations increasing? Are we doing better than last year? Am I doing better than my predecessor?”

15. Nurture your reputation (Php 3:8): Put on a good show and make a good impression (Lk 16:15; Gal 6:12). Be face conscious. Make a name for yourself (Gen 11:4) and blame the wife when things go wrong (Gen 3:12).

16. Pray long prayers, especially if others are listening (Mt 6:5-8).

17. Regard people from a worldly point of view (2 Cor 5:16): Engage in office politics. View new-comers as potential recruits or leaders for your programs. Cultivate task-based friendships. Choose the best-looking man for the job (1 Sam 16:7). Show favor to the one with money (Jas 2:3).

18. Sacrifice people on the altar of your principles (1 Cor 3:1-4): “I’m right, you’re wrong.” Judge the weak (Rm 15:1). Distance yourselves from those who aren’t as doctrinally pure as you (1 Cor 9:22).

19. Combat worldly problems with worldly weapons (2 Cor 10:4): Put your faith in politics. Start fights (Zec 4:6). Picket the abortion clinic. Protest the gay parade (Is 42:2).

20. Pretend to be Jesus (Mt 24:24): Draw people to your ministry and build toward yourself (1 The 3:8). Teach others to depend on you. Stand in the gap. Try to crucify yourself (Col 2:20).

This is a yukky list and frankly, I didn’t enjoy writing it. Just about everything on this list, I’ve done. God help me, some of the things on this list I’m still doing! Don’t let this list condemn you. A better response is to get mad because we’ve been conned! The prince of this world has deceived us into thinking that this is how things are done, that the fleshly way of life is normal. But this is not normal life for one born of the spirit. We act this way out of habit and ignorance. We walk after the flesh because when we were in the flesh this was how we lived:

You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. (Col 3:7)

I have to say this again: Some of the activities on this list are good! Please don’t think I am against the law or fruitful ministries or planning or praying without ceasing. I am not. But understand that the carnal mind longs to be told what to do when God is much more interested in how we are doing it. Are we trusting in the power of our might or are we resting confidently in His? Are we walking as “mere men” (1 Cor 3:3) or are we being revealed as mature sons and daughters of our Father? Flesh cannot give birth to spirit. Neither can walking after the flesh empower you to live the life God has called you to live.

I encourage you to review the list again and ask the Holy Spirit to help you identify those areas that He wants to deal with today. “But Paul, that’s pretty much everything on that list!” Don’t panic! Your heavenly Father knows you are a work-in-progress. Some of these issues can be dealt with now; others can wait. He loves you regardless, without any reference to your performance. He knows everything that you’ve done and everything that you’re ever going to do. It’s impossible to disappoint Him.

Taken from "Escape To Reality"

When reading this personal list of P.Ellis ., the major thing that pops out to me is the need I have and think lots of people have to fix things and be responsible to fix things. This list is about fixing things on the human side and not allowing Jesus to fix things supernaturally.


"...the carnal mind longs to be told what to do when God is much more interested in how we are doing it. Are we trusting in the power of our might or are we resting confidently in His? Are we walking as “mere men” (1 Cor 3:3) or are we being revealed as mature sons and daughters of our Father? Flesh cannot give birth to spirit. Neither can walking after the flesh empower you to live the life God has called you to live."


I believe this is about knowing the difference between what we believers learned was our responsibility before God., and to stop that train of thinking (as mere men) to instead believe God will do it through His Spirit in the inner man. And learning to walk into maturity of who we are in Christ now by the inner man/spirit man. Because the flesh can't give birth to the spirit. And so doing these good works that many Christians do won't change us and empower us to live the life we are called to live.

Hebrews 8:10-12

[SUP]10 [/SUP]For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will imprint My laws upon their minds, even upon their innermost thoughts and understanding, and engrave them upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.[SUP]
11 [/SUP]And it will nevermore be necessary for each one to teach his neighbor and his fellow citizen or each one his brother, saying, Know (perceive, have knowledge of, and get acquainted by experience with) the Lord, for all will know Me, from the smallest to the greatest of them.
[SUP]
12 [/SUP]For I will be merciful and gracious toward their sins and I will remember their deeds of unrighteousness no more.


Proverbs 4:20

[SUP]20 [/SUP]My son, attend to my words; consent and submit to my sayings.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Let them not depart from your sight; keep them in the center of your heart.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For they are life to those who find them, healing and health to all their flesh.

"Meditating on the Word until the answer comes". I believe Jesus gave us the example of how to know Him and it's through His Word and through His Spirit. And the answer from the Bible comes when it's seen through the spirit by the Holy Spirit ministering the truth. And also having a confidence that the answers will come. That He will lead us into all truth because He said He would.