You will not find anywhere in the Bible that God damnifies people namely the unsaved before the foundation of the world, he will judge them but the prior part no. This argument has been beaten to death because people who advocate this idea they do not understand election and or predestination much less that of Romans 3.
Do we decide to be saved?
- Thread starter EarnestQ
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In regards to election and predestination. I believe Scripture as a whole is better served when we interpret these concepts into Who we are becoming like. We are elected and predestined to be conformed into the image of His Son through faith. This is the upward call of Christ. Paul said he pressed forward to lay ahold of what Christ already laid ahold of for him. Our destiny is to be molded into His Image. He is the Tabernacle of God. He is the Truth, Way, and Life. And we are united with Him. As our mind is renewed these realities become more real to us.
amen cee. Most all of us firstly Believe that Jesus died for Our sins, we hear or see scriptures when He says " anyone Who believes in Me shall Have eternal Life.....
this Person, this New Believer, can Now Rest in the truth that anyone who Believes in Him shall Have eternal Life. Then i think when that really sinks in that Jesus suffered and died for us, to Offer eternal Life to those who will Just Look to Him and Believe. it will cause us to want to Know this Jesus, this Hero who came from the Glories of Heaven, jumped into the mire of Humanity with us who were Bound under death, and solved the Problem all together.
I Believe when I realized that Jesus will wasnt to Be High above us, exalted and Leave us Lowly and Bound... But to come Jump into the Mess We have all caused at some time in Our Lives with us, so He could Get us and Bring us Back to God with Him. it really changed My Life. then things Like this Really Made Me feel Loved Moreso and Grateful Moreso and really a fellowship with the Lord who Became Like us
Hebrews 2 " But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren.....[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]v 14 " [/FONT]Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted."
its amazing that He for whom, and By whom are all things" .....did that for each Person individually that we may all individually see Him and Believe. Sort of Like a brother if your in a Bad situation drowning, they Jump in to save you. instead of sitting on a throne, while we try to reach His standard and drown. God actually cares " God Loves us" isnt Just a phrase He is worth all we can give
M
I personally believe this.
Ephesians 2:8-10 NKJV
[8] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that
not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, [9] not of works, lest anyone
should boast. [10] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ
Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that
we should walk in them.
It’s all about God drawing us to Himself, He chases us down urges us to seek
Him.
Some may then reject that calling but even then He continues to chase us down
encouraging, calling, drawing us near to Him. Have you ever heard testimonies
of people who say that everyone they met seemed to be a Christian and seemed to
have a word just for them!
After all that it is still possible to reject God time and time again, whose hearts
become increasingly hardened and for those that do, there may come a
time when God stops calling them. Instead He hardens their heart for them
and allows them to be judged and given up to their own sin.
There are also people whose hearts are hardened by God in other ways
like Pharoah with Moses, when he refused to let the people go.
It all points us to grace, without grace without God drawing us to
Himself, we would never chose God, even with God’s intervention we
still have a choice to make. Woe betide anyone who rejects that calling.
Exodus 7:1-5 NKJV
[1] So the LORD said to Moses: "See, I have made you as God to
Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet. [2] You
shall speak all that I command you. And Aaron your brother shall
tell Pharaoh to send the children of Israel out of his land.
[3] And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply My signs and My
wonders in the land of Egypt. [4] But Pharaoh will not heed you, so
that I may lay My hand on Egypt and bring My armies and My people,
the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments.
[5] And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD, when I stretch
out My hand on Egypt and bring out the children of Israel from among them."
Romans 1:22-32 NKJV
[22] Professing to be wise, they became fools,
[23] and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image
made like corruptible man-and birds and four-footed animals and
creeping things.
[24] Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts
of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
[25] who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped
and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed
forever. Amen.
[26] For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even
their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
[27] Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman,
burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing
what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their
error which was due.
[28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge,
God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which
are not fitting; [29] being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual
immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy,
murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
[30] backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of
evil things, disobedient to parents, [31] undiscerning, untrustworthy,
unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; [32] who, knowing the righteous
judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving
of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
Ephesians 2:8-10 NKJV
[8] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that
not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, [9] not of works, lest anyone
should boast. [10] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ
Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that
we should walk in them.
It’s all about God drawing us to Himself, He chases us down urges us to seek
Him.
Some may then reject that calling but even then He continues to chase us down
encouraging, calling, drawing us near to Him. Have you ever heard testimonies
of people who say that everyone they met seemed to be a Christian and seemed to
have a word just for them!
After all that it is still possible to reject God time and time again, whose hearts
become increasingly hardened and for those that do, there may come a
time when God stops calling them. Instead He hardens their heart for them
and allows them to be judged and given up to their own sin.
There are also people whose hearts are hardened by God in other ways
like Pharoah with Moses, when he refused to let the people go.
It all points us to grace, without grace without God drawing us to
Himself, we would never chose God, even with God’s intervention we
still have a choice to make. Woe betide anyone who rejects that calling.
Exodus 7:1-5 NKJV
[1] So the LORD said to Moses: "See, I have made you as God to
Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet. [2] You
shall speak all that I command you. And Aaron your brother shall
tell Pharaoh to send the children of Israel out of his land.
[3] And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply My signs and My
wonders in the land of Egypt. [4] But Pharaoh will not heed you, so
that I may lay My hand on Egypt and bring My armies and My people,
the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments.
[5] And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD, when I stretch
out My hand on Egypt and bring out the children of Israel from among them."
Romans 1:22-32 NKJV
[22] Professing to be wise, they became fools,
[23] and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image
made like corruptible man-and birds and four-footed animals and
creeping things.
[24] Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts
of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
[25] who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped
and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed
forever. Amen.
[26] For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even
their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
[27] Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman,
burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing
what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their
error which was due.
[28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge,
God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which
are not fitting; [29] being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual
immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy,
murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
[30] backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of
evil things, disobedient to parents, [31] undiscerning, untrustworthy,
unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; [32] who, knowing the righteous
judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving
of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
M
I think also there is a difference between head knowledge and
heart knowledge.
The Pharisees had head knowledge but they thought they were called!
The disciples who really were called had heart knowledge and a personal
revelation about Christ. They really were called!
So its possible to also be deceived in that way too. People who think it’s
all about them need to be very careful, are they really born again?
Do they follow a dead religion, do they go to church out of habit
because their family does for example.
To be born again, there had to be some sort of personal encounter with the
Living God, some sort of personal revelation. It’s not like driving your
own car, it’s more like being taken on a bus ride!
heart knowledge.
The Pharisees had head knowledge but they thought they were called!
The disciples who really were called had heart knowledge and a personal
revelation about Christ. They really were called!
So its possible to also be deceived in that way too. People who think it’s
all about them need to be very careful, are they really born again?
Do they follow a dead religion, do they go to church out of habit
because their family does for example.
To be born again, there had to be some sort of personal encounter with the
Living God, some sort of personal revelation. It’s not like driving your
own car, it’s more like being taken on a bus ride!
M
Just wanted to say as well, that my elderly aunt who I take care of,
is born again. She became a Christian when I was a child and started taking
me to church. I had a spectacular personal encounter with God at the age of
around 11. Very few testimonies are so “pow, bang wallop”. But it doesn’t have to be so
dramatic most are more subtle but there is still some form of personal
encounter in there somewhere.
Anyway as time has gone on my aunts faith had been eroded due to life issues.
But for the last few years, even despite the confusion and sickness she has
been praying more.
Then for the last few weeks she had been very confused due to UTIs chest infections.
At one point she was so confused she was hallucinating and didn’t know wot planet
she was on, or whose house she was in. She can barely walk but thought she had been
shopping with lots of children, kept thinking others were in the house.
Yet despite all that I checked on her one night she was very destressed and confused.
She asked me to pray with her as she was very scared. So we did and she sincerely
asked God to protect the children (even though there weren’t any in the house)
and also to forgive her for all the trouble she was causing!
Even in her utter confusion, God was drawing her to Himself!
Its all about God and not about us.
is born again. She became a Christian when I was a child and started taking
me to church. I had a spectacular personal encounter with God at the age of
around 11. Very few testimonies are so “pow, bang wallop”. But it doesn’t have to be so
dramatic most are more subtle but there is still some form of personal
encounter in there somewhere.
Anyway as time has gone on my aunts faith had been eroded due to life issues.
But for the last few years, even despite the confusion and sickness she has
been praying more.
Then for the last few weeks she had been very confused due to UTIs chest infections.
At one point she was so confused she was hallucinating and didn’t know wot planet
she was on, or whose house she was in. She can barely walk but thought she had been
shopping with lots of children, kept thinking others were in the house.
Yet despite all that I checked on her one night she was very destressed and confused.
She asked me to pray with her as she was very scared. So we did and she sincerely
asked God to protect the children (even though there weren’t any in the house)
and also to forgive her for all the trouble she was causing!
Even in her utter confusion, God was drawing her to Himself!
Its all about God and not about us.
You obviously have no clue what everything is all about. The purpose of darkness is that light can be brighter, without darkness surely there wont be any light, without evil, there'll be no such thing as good.
Evil doesn't originate from God but He causes satan to be the origin of evil. Satan is the rod of God's anger and the axe of His wrath- haven't you heard?
Isa 45:5I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:6That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Isa 10: 5Woe to Assyria, the rod of My anger And the staff in whose hands is My indignation, 6I send it against a godless nation And commission it against the people of My fury To capture booty and to seize plunder, And to trample them down like mud in the streets.......15Does the ax raise itself above the person who swings it,or the saw boast against the one who uses it?As if a rod were to wield the person who lifts it up,or a club brandish the one who is not wood!
Evil doesn't originate from God but He causes satan to be the origin of evil. Satan is the rod of God's anger and the axe of His wrath- haven't you heard?
Isa 45:5I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:6That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Isa 10: 5Woe to Assyria, the rod of My anger And the staff in whose hands is My indignation, 6I send it against a godless nation And commission it against the people of My fury To capture booty and to seize plunder, And to trample them down like mud in the streets.......15Does the ax raise itself above the person who swings it,or the saw boast against the one who uses it?As if a rod were to wield the person who lifts it up,or a club brandish the one who is not wood!
Being saved is something that only God can do. God gives us endless blessings and abilities, but He does not give us the ability to create our own salvation.
However we have been given Christ.
Through what we do we can live our life in a very successful way by following God's directions. We can prepare our soul for our future life in many mansions as we have been told. Because Christ died for our sins we can repent and be forgiven.
But salvation is in God's hands alone. God created us, God loves us. He can be trusted.
However we have been given Christ.
Through what we do we can live our life in a very successful way by following God's directions. We can prepare our soul for our future life in many mansions as we have been told. Because Christ died for our sins we can repent and be forgiven.
But salvation is in God's hands alone. God created us, God loves us. He can be trusted.
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and then as we carry on seeking and following we Begin to Be drawn into deeper truth that changes the Mind. because we are moving right along blessed Feeling really secure and then are eyes are opened a bit More and we see things We are Being taught to actually do Ourselves, because, we realize that God has Given US the Power to work out our salvation. its really amazing. the Gospel keeps a person feeling secure and protected, but also it does not allow complacency, it keeps us Moving in the direction God is Leading us, remember we do Have to follow. if we fight He is patient and will never abandon us as we keep faith, But also He will not force us to do anything, He will as always Give us the truth, clearly and then warn of the other path. and say " Choose"
We arent puppets were children, were Made to be controlled God is Making a People who have a Heart Like Him, who will act when they see one in need, those who will be a light in someones darkness. He is Not going to force Our Hand, He will However create a New Heart in us and that will guide our choices as we Become More clear as faith grows. No Ones Lost yet, and No one should believe they are beyond the fear of God. we shoulod simply live today, Knowing Our sins are paid for we do Not owe Our Lives. and Knowing tomorrow is Not a guarantee to get right with My own part, God Loves Prayer for things that He tells us to do....
I often Wonder who Hears " you may ask for anything in My name and it ill be done for you".....and then considers " Lord free Me from this bondage, Lord Heal Me teach Me to walk in your ways, teach Me to repent Lord Give Me repentance..... God answers those in ways that changes Lives and Opens the eyes of the spirit. The Bible actually doesnt ever say " theres Nothing for you believers to do? its full of instructions for us to do. its Just we Have to realize we cant earn salvation by what we do, our salvation is given or Not given, according to the One appointed to Judge us. and He said " come to Me amd LEARN FROM mE he said " those who hear My words and Keep them, is a wise man whos House will stand......the One who doesnt do them is a foolish Man whos House fell with a great crash.....
to simly Learn from Jesus will provide salvation and Keep us fruitful as We learn and do
yes and He gives a stark Warning among His grace explaination to the church
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God:[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness,[/FONT] if thou continue in [FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. [/FONT][FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"
a can of worms indeed.[/FONT]
i think God came to save us through His son Jesus Christ,people are saved by faith,and faith is hearing the word of God ,believing in it,and obeying His commandments, we all have a conscience as human beings on what is good and bad...i think salvation is an option,a chance to love and to believe...we have also been given FREE WILL, salvation has been given to us freely at a price that was Gods own DIVINE blood,getting SAVED is a choice,an exercise of free will.