Do we decide to be saved?

[John146]

romans 1 gives us a few

- His creation

- The law written in our hearts (even the gentiles who do not have the law.) as romans 1 says, even they know that whoever does wring is worthy of condemnation, They now the truth, they hide it in themseves because they loved sin more. SO God allowed them to follow their own hearts and gave them up to a debased mind

God himself (Holy Spirit conviction and teaching.

The amazing thing about God that men can not understand or fathom. Is he knows what it will take for people to respond (And who will respond and who will n ot no matter what he does) and we cna rest assured he will do whatever it takes if he knows there is a way.

John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's true, which Paul does say, he says how can they hear unless someone be sent? It's unfortunate they didn't hear of the gospel. In regards to this Paul says that the universe preaches Him. So they are left without an excuse. But I have heard stories of Him revealing Himself through visions and dreams.

One can ask this, WHy did God wait so long to send someone? Is it possibly that they would not be open to hear it? so sending someone would have been useless and may have gotten them killed?

 

[preacher4truth]

Simply saying, "Strike one, strike two, strike 3... " doesn't mean anything to me. You didn't prove a single point.

Here a cooookkkkiiieeeeee for you.

You're unteachable and proud.

And?

You deny context of Scripture.

For you to say there was no point proven is to bear false witness against your own conscience. The fact remains you are a Romans 9:20 man, a Universalist in teaching (which was proven) you remain unteachable, and will not allow the Word in context to correct you.

Oh, and by the way it's not "my" doctrine, it's what the Word says in context and it happens to cross grains with your tradition.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I've heard this doctrinal argument, but if you look into the Greek word being used here for "desires", you'll see it's used interchangeable with "wills".

Here's where you can start:

Greek Concordance: θέλει (thelei) -- 19 Occurrences

But just to save you the trip, here's the exact word in another Scripture:

John 5:21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will.

As you can see, this is Scripture once again saying the opposite of the "desires vs wills" argument.

The Son gives life to whom He wills. (John 5:21)
And the Father wills none to perish. (1 Tim 2:4)

These words are identical in the Greek.

John 5:21 answered that for you. Those who are saved are because He willed them to be saved. If God willed everybody be saved and none lost, as you are asserting 2 Peter 3:9 is stating, then hello universalism.

 

[SovereignGrace]

romans 1 gives us a few

- His creation

- The law written in our hearts (even the gentiles who do not have the law.) as romans 1 says, even they know that whoever does wring is worthy of condemnation, They now the truth, they hide it in themseves because they loved sin more. SO God allowed them to follow their own hearts and gave them up to a debased mind

God himself (Holy Spirit conviction and teaching.

The amazing thing about God that men can not understand or fathom. Is he knows what it will take for people to respond (And who will respond and who will n ot no matter what he does) and we cna rest assured he will do whatever it takes if he knows there is a way.

So, by this post, the gospel is not enough to save ppl. No need to send missionaries out to hazard their lives in places they could be eaten as supper, die from diseases, no need to fund missionaries, as God will get to them somehow.

As I have believed for a while, if time lasts long enough, the preaching of the gospel will go the way of the dodo.

 

[Magenta]

John 5:21 answered that for you. Those who are saved are because He willed them to be saved. If God willed everybody be saved and none lost, as you are asserting 2 Peter 3:9 is stating, then hello universalism.

God desires all to repent, and come to a knowledge of the truth. Don't leave that part out Since not all repent of their rebellion against God, universalism is not being touted, even though you repeatedly claim it is.

 

[SovereignGrace]

romans 1 gives us a few

- His creation

- The law written in our hearts (even the gentiles who do not have the law.) as romans 1 says, even they know that whoever does wring is worthy of condemnation, They now the truth, they hide it in themseves because they loved sin more. SO God allowed them to follow their own hearts and gave them up to a debased mind

God himself (Holy Spirit conviction and teaching.

The amazing thing about God that men can not understand or fathom. Is he knows what it will take for people to respond (And who will respond and who will n ot no matter what he does) and we cna rest assured he will do whatever it takes if he knows there is a way.

There is only one way to God and that way is through the word of His Christ. Faith comes from that word, and not via creation.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I agree with all here, up to your last line, I would change it to say not that he does not will them all. but that he will not force them all to be saved.

I think he wills them all. But he will not force his salvation on anyone.

If I read 'force' one more time in regards to God saving the lost, I am going to scream.

Brother, this is the lost person...

He is dead as a corpse inwardly, being spiritually dead. God must first bring this dead spirit to life before the lost person can respond. In their lost state, their spirit is dead, but the body is alive. That is why 1 Cor. 2:14 states The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. The lost man, in this dead state, can not understand the word of God. That is why the preaching of the gospel is necessary. Faith comes from hearing the word of God.

 

[SovereignGrace]

romans 1 gives that answer. They heard, they just did not respond. so God did not have to send them anyone.

Now children below age of accountability, I think that is a tricky subject and will just say I do not know.

They heard what? Romans 1 shows the lost in their ruined state. It is not a treaty to be saved, but to show ppl the lost are doomed outside of the Christ.

 

[Magenta]

Universalism teaches that everyone will be ultimately saved, whether or not they obeyed the Gospel. I trust you do not believe such nonsense.

Yes God definitely desires the salvation of every human being but unless sinners (1) repent and are converted and (2) believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and His finished work of redemption, they will NOT be saved.

I just saw this. I had to go back to see what Cee was actually saying because you edited his response, which seemed to have an element of tongue-in-cheek to it, by adding after what you quoted, "you can't be serious." It is not universalism to affirm that Scriptures state that anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved. Those who confess with their mouths and believe in their hearts are not "all," and therefore, once again, not universalism.

 

[SovereignGrace]

God desires all to repent, and come to a knowledge of the truth. Don't leave that part out Since not all repent of their rebellion against God, universalism is not being touted, even though you repeatedly claim it is.

And yet, repentance is not innate within the lost.

God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins.[Acts 5:31]


Here we can read that it is God who brought repentance to Israel.


When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.”[Acts 11:18]

God granted[gave] repentance to the Gentiles.

Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?[Romans 2:4]

God's kindness leads ppl to repentance.

Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,[2 Timothy 2:25]

Those who oppose the saved, God must grant them repentance before they can be saved.


So, I do believe repentance is very necessary in the lost's salvation, but this is a God-given gift.

 

[PS]

John 5:21 answered that for you. Those who are saved are because He willed them to be saved. If God willed everybody be saved and none lost, as you are asserting 2 Peter 3:9 is stating, then hello universalism.

God does want everyone to be saved, Jesus died for the whosoever, but it is our decision whether or not we accept.

 

[PS]

So, by this post, the gospel is not enough to save ppl. No need to send missionaries out to hazard their lives in places they could be eaten as supper, die from diseases, no need to fund missionaries, as God will get to them somehow.

As I have believed for a while, if time lasts long enough, the preaching of the gospel will go the way of the dodo.

People may harden their hearts against the gospel, but God's free gift of salvation is there for all time and all people.

 

[Magenta]

There is only one way to God and that way is through the word of His Christ. Faith comes from that word, and not via creation.

All of creation attests to the fact that there is a God. Romans 1:20

For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-- his
eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being under-
stood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

 

[Magenta]

And yet, repentance is not innate within the lost.

God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins.[Acts 5:31]

Here we can read that it is God who brought repentance to Israel.

When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.”[Acts 11:18]

God granted[gave] repentance to the Gentiles.

Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?[Romans 2:4]

God's kindness leads ppl to repentance.

Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,[2 Timothy 2:25]

Those who oppose the saved, God must grant them repentance before they can be saved.

So, I do believe repentance is very necessary in the lost's salvation, but this is a God-given gift.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

See he bolded above? It has been given, but not all receive. They actually
refuse. The pride of life is as active now as it was in the garden of Eden.

 

[Terrie431]

Basically the idea is, that even though God desires none to perish, He allows people to perish. Which is fine, but if you take away man's free will then it doesn't work for me. Because the only reason I believe God allows people to perish and stumble is because He values people freely choosing Him.

I have to agree, Cee. Salvation is a Gift from God. The Gift - Jesus, & the faith to believe, - can either be accepted or rejected; confirmed or denied; embraced or ignored; all of which are decisions strictly made by the individual person. Besides, forced love really ain't love.

Thanks!

 

[SovereignGrace]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

See he bolded above? It has been given, but not all receive. They actually
refuse. The pride of life is as active now as it was in the garden of Eden.

That's not the context of Acts 11:18 at all. Peter had just finished telling the Jews that he had went to a house full of Gentiles, that as he was preaching the word to them, the Spirit came upon them and saved them. It's not that God gave[granted] repentance to EVERY Gentile whoever lived, but they were amazed that God had granted repentance to those Gentiles in Cornelius' house.

 

[SovereignGrace]

All of creation attests to the fact that there is a God. Romans 1:20

For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-- his
eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being under-
stood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

But natural revelation does not tell them this...

God came in the form of a man, lived a sinless life, met all the righteous demands of the Law, was tried and wrongly convicted by a bunch of God-haters, was crucified on a cross, was buried and three days later, rose from the dead.

Unless you have the gospel, you have no salvation.

 

[Magenta]

That's not the context of Acts 11:18 at all. Peter had just finished telling the Jews that he had went to a house full of Gentiles, that as he was preaching the word to them, the Spirit came upon them and saved them. It's not that God gave[granted] repentance to EVERY Gentile whoever lived, but they were amazed that God had granted repentance to those Gentiles in Cornelius' house.

Because they believed.

 

[Magenta]

But natural revelation does not tell them this...

God came in the form of a man, lived a sinless life, met all the righteous demands of the Law, was tried and wrongly convicted by a bunch of God-haters, was crucified on a cross, was buried and three days later, rose from the dead.

Unless you have the gospel, you have no salvation.

Nature reveals the fact there is a God, and Scripture attests to that fact. Knowing there is a God, people seek Him. They are without excuse not to.