Not By Works

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Apr 16, 2018
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Yes, DOING generally involves some action....something christians are fighting against...obviously not read Jas 1v22 'be you DOERS of the word, hearers only are deceiving themselves.
We have to "HEAR FROM GOD" before we "DO" like Abraham making our DOING; HOLY SPIRIT PRODUCED!

"So then they that are IN THE FLESH cannot please GOD" (Romans 8:8).

How then does "DOING" involve OUR action?

"For it is GOD which WORKETH IN YOU both to will and to DO of *HIS* good pleasure' (Philippians 2:13).

OK! If "GOD IS WORKING IN US" [After Holy Spirit baptism with "CONFORMATION" (Mk 16:16:20)] so how do OUR "works" involve OUR actions?

Isn't "GOD WORKING?"

The problems IS you all have NOT been TAUGHT "GOD IS IN CONTROL" after you receive baptism by the Holy Spirit and HE "looks at your heart" (I Samuel 16:7) and "SEE" your "BELIEF" and to what extinct then "PROPORTIONS" our FAITH (Romans 12:6) after "HEARING" and "BELIEVING" more of HIS WORD (Romans 10:17)!

That's why we "STUDY" to learn ALL OF HIS PROMISES and when CHALLENGES arrive in our lives we can "STAND IN FAITH!" We are also given promotions in "Spiritual gifts" the more we "HEAR" and "BELIEVE" of HIS WORD (I Corinthians 14:39)!

Blessings:)
 
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Dec 12, 2013
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Why do you act as though you are better than someone else, requiring certain criteria in order to answer a simple question ? That doesn't sound like God is leading you to act that way to me. I just asked you a very fair question based on your earlier comments. It would seem like an honest man could offer an honest response. Why do you wish to avoid the below question ?

Tell me, why is it that those who claim TO SEE CHRIST need to resort to name calling in a discussion ? I would think they would be so much better behaved than that dc. You never did answer my question relating to this. Why do you claim to being led by God, yet resort to such nasty name calling as you sometimes do ?
Why do you still reject the word of God and it's examples in favor of your man made false religion?

Therefore we conclude a man is justified by faith without the deeds/works of the law!!!!!!
 
Dec 28, 2016
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"So then they that are IN THE FLESH cannot please GOD" (Romans 8:8)
Uh, that verse is talking about "THE LOST" not "CHRISTIANS."

You really need to get some help understanding Scripture.

Here, just for old times sake: "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" :D
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
"Spiritual status?"

Are you talking about "belonging to an organization?"

I've TOLD you "ALL CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATIONS ARE ONLY "SHOOT OFFS" FROM THE RCC WHO ARE "LIARS" AND HAVE ENTWINED "LIES" INTO SCRIPTURE TO "DECEIVE" YOU GUYS!"
You can't lump the whole of Christianity into that one position. I understand about the daughters of Babylon, but I'd like to inform you there is a church of Holy Spirit filled believers out there. There are a few organized groups that don't fit that mold. They may be rare but they are there.

wait-smiley-emoticon.gif
 
Dec 12, 2013
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No pride here, This woman in the words and language of the king jimmy, "puffeth herself up"

James 4:6
But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: “God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.”

1 Peter 5:5
[ Submit to God, Resist the Devil ] Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your elders. Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for “God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.”
Her words mirror the Pharisees when they stood and boasted in the Market......no one led of the Lord lifts themselves up as she does!
 
Dec 28, 2016
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You can't lump the whole of Christianity into that one position. I understand about the daughters of Babylon, but I'd like to inform you there is a church of Holy Spirit filled believers out there. There are a few organized groups that don't fit that mold. They may be rare but they are there.

View attachment 180950

So you belong to Living Church of God?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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you know, I just love it when know-it-alls just show up and start lecturing everyone on how to behave, like you have some moral high ground. read the woman caught in adultery story, and pay attention to the part about casting stones.
When one rejects the truth.....you cannot expect much for sure....he said the following is not scripture.....

Therefore we conclude a man is justified by faith without thw deeds/works of the law.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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When one rejects the truth.....you cannot expect much for sure....he said the following is not scripture.....

Therefore we conclude a man is justified by faith without thw deeds/works of the law.
lloyd claimed that's not Scripture? Seriously?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Sir if your listed age is correct then I think you need to be accorded respect by your younger brothers and sisters. I believe you do have a zeal for the Lord and His Word. The disconnect you seem to be having with so many is not so much doctrinal, but rather generational. I don't think any of us took Lafftur's post as blasphemous, but perhaps it might have been deemed blasphemous many yrs ago.

Although our Father MUST be feared (reverent awe) and never disrespected, we should remember that He is our Daddy (Abba).
I do not believe he would in any way take her post as an offense. She is His little girl! That's how he sees her, and us as well. We're His kids.

I in no way condone or approve ANY behavior or post that insults or degrades another person. But we have to have grace, and give it to those that offend us in fact, or, as in most cases, what WE percieve as fact.

If you feel offended by something someone says view that as an opportunity from the Lord as a test to see if you can show love and Grace.

I honestly wasn't trying to rebuke you. I was attempting to show you the situation from a different perspective. Be at peace here. Just like in our earthly families we squabble sometimes. But know that we love you.
On the same token things changed in the NT.....let none despise thy youth! And a man that rejects Romans 3:28 and the fact that the Greek word can rightfully be translated works or deeds is hard to respect....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I posted this before and you ignored it. So I'm gonna post it again.

"Well, if you can heal why aren't you clearing out the hospitals? Why aren't you going to the graveyards and raising the dead? Why aren't you controlling the weather and stopping hurricanes and tornadoes? Read John 14:12 and tell me why you aren't doing these things."

Go ahead, I'll wait.
Still waiting on her to scull a glass of bleach or amonia.....seeing how she pushes Mark so much!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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DISAGREE

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son on the altar? faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
JAMES 2:14-26
Ok and another one that spits on context while embracing something the bible does not teach....

Therefore, we conclude a man is justified By faith WITHOUT THE DEEDS/WORKS of the law....

If your reject context and erroneously believe a faith works blend FOR SALVATION you will end up in the MANY GROUPING at the end of the age..Faith plus works for = false gospel with no power to save....end of story!
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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You can't lump the whole of Christianity into that one position. I understand about the daughters of Babylon, but I'd like to inform you there is a church of Holy Spirit filled believers out there. There are a few organized groups that don't fit that mold. They may be rare but they are there.

View attachment 180950
Sounds like akin to the Plymouth Brethren, conservative, nonconformist, Christian evangelicals.
 
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Oh my, another "works saves" person. What makes any human being believe they can do enough "works" to be good enough for God's heaven? Can't do enough works, put on enough works, espouse enough works.

Those who believe through faith and receive are saved by the grace of God and can then go out and do good works because they are filled with the Holy Spirit at salvation and are then equipped to do the work God created them to do.
Many is the number described by Jesus that get cast into hell.....what they ALL have in common...the same drivel the workers for, Pharisess and law abiders push....

a. They claim to know Jesus
b. They believe their works earned their right to enter

They believe a faith/works blend either for or to keep/maintain salvation<--all three false!
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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When one rejects the truth.....you cannot expect much for sure....he said the following is not scripture.....

Therefore we conclude a man is justified by faith without the deeds/works of the law.


The words "deeds and works" are synonymous in the Greek transliteration, as you have pointed out.
Tell mr. know-it-all, don't go away mad just go away.

Same bible verse:
Therefore we conclude a man is justified by faith without the deeds/works of the law
Same bible verse:
KJV:
Romans3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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The words "deeds and works" are synonymous in the Greek transliteration, as you have pointed out.
Tell mr. know-it-all, don't go away mad just go away.

Same bible verse:

Same bible verse:
KJV:
Romans3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Amen brother...people who know the truth have no issue with the truth......people who believe they help save themselves or keep themselves saved have all sorts of issues with the truth.....wow....just noticed 1.1 million views hahahha awesome
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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DISAGREE

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son on the altar? faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
JAMES 2:14-26
Let's examine James 2:14-26.

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to validate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. That's like saying a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save him, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works. He was "shown to be righteous."

In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof/evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will appear to be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous".

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

In James 2:25, Rahab believed in the Lord with authentic faith (Joshua 2:9-13), requested "kindness" (2:12), received the promise of kindness (2:14), and hung out the "scarlet line" (2:21), as the demonstration of her authentic faith. She showed that her faith in God was not a dead faith by her works, just as all genuine believers show theirs.

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works (Ephesians 2:5-10).

In a nutshell, man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-26).

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I am talking about your profile?

You state you are "unsure"

"Spiritual status?"

Are you talking about "belonging to an organization?"

I've TOLD you "ALL CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATIONS ARE ONLY "SHOOT OFFS" FROM THE RCC WHO ARE "LIARS" AND HAVE ENTWINED "LIES" INTO SCRIPTURE TO "DECEIVE" YOU GUYS!"
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
Let's examine James 2:14-26.

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to validate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. That's like saying a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save him, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works. He was "shown to be righteous."

In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof/evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will appear to be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous".

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

In James 2:25, Rahab believed in the Lord with authentic faith (Joshua 2:9-13), requested "kindness" (2:12), received the promise of kindness (2:14), and hung out the "scarlet line" (2:21), as the demonstration of her authentic faith. She showed that her faith in God was not a dead faith by her works, just as all genuine believers show theirs.

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works (Ephesians 2:5-10).

In a nutshell, man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-26).

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*
Amen Mailman, love that, "Perfect Harmony".....:) , and thank you for taking us through James
verse by verse.
 
Apr 16, 2018
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Uh, that verse is talking about "THE LOST" not "CHRISTIANS."

You really need to get some help understanding Scripture.

Here, just for old times sake: "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" :D
What?

"They that WORSHIP HIM *MUST* worship *IN SPIRIT* and in truth" (John 4:23-24).

"...neither is WORSHIPED with MEN'S HAND..." (Acts 17:23-25)!

"THE *SPIRIT* bears witness with our spirit that we ARE the children of GOD" (Romans 8:16)!

There are too MANY SCRIPTURES that say "NOT WORKS WITH MEN'S HANDS" by THE FLESH but PRODUCED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT including Ephesians 2:8-9!

"It is GOD that worketh in you..." (Philippians 2:13).

What is WRONG with you?

You just want to ARGUE?

What have I done to you but told TRUTH which you can't seem to be able to handle (John 16:12) acting CHILDISHLY (I Corinthians 3:1-3)!

When one ARGUES vs "STUDYING" (II Timothy 2:15) it show IMMATURITY IN CHRIST!

GOD COMMANDED us to "Search the Scriptures to see if these things are so" (Acts 17:11) and to "PROVE" with the WORD (II Timothy 3:16) your "doctrine" (Hebrews 6:1-2).

It seems that there are TOO MANY on this cite who ARE still "carnally minded" (Romans 8:6-7)!

I PRAY!

Blessings