10 Reasons Sin Confession Is Questionable!!!

[7seasrekeyed]

this thread has been cleverly manipulated to make it seem that you can interpret scripture in the way best suited to your own understanding

the premise is one we have heard ad infinitum and the responses are canned and tired

nobody really listens and some of the snappy comebacks have ZERO to do with the op; they are simply geared as an 'HAHA I got you' while denying doing any such thing

nonetheless, ignore what the NT actually teaches, you will have to ignore what Jesus says but of course He is 'old school' to many these days

it's all good though, eh?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Looks to me from all these questions that you would rather treat this subject in a farcical way than deal with it properly.

What if I did this and forgot, what it I did that and forgot, what if I did something else and could not recall?

So what exactly is your point?

the point is the same point it always is

create a diversion, through dust in the air, make a lotta noise...anything really to get out of addressing why we should pay attention to anything difficult in scripture when Jesus did it all and we now 'rest' in Him

 

[jameen]

1st Timothy 2:5

" For there is one God , and one Mediator between God and men , the man Christ Jesus

Agree!

but the question is who are the successors of the apostles in your religious group who were given by Christ to forgive sins?

And how do your religious ministers have the power to forgive sins if not by means of our Sacrament of Confession where you will tell your sins and the priest will forgive you on behalf of Jesus?

Pls. clarify.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

You have obviously not been following this hypergrace fiasco as long as I have. Point blank, they deny that we need to confess our sins. And make amends, as Jesus said.

Hypergrace and Word Faith are both an overrealized eschatology. They repeatedly take promises meant for when we are made perfect, glorified, when Jesus returns, and apply them to Justification. Now, Justification is important! But it is our starting point.

I personally do not understand this teaching at all, focusing on your own righteousness. How do you change and grow, if you only focus on a future event? It makes no sense from a human point of view. How do you change and grow if you never come to grips with your weak areas, the one the Holy Spirit convicts me to change?

When I came to Christ, God changed me in some amazing ways. Things that I have literally never had to deal with again. Like drinking. God told me never again, and in 38 years I’ve never been tempted. So, I don’t have to confess that sin, I don’t have it anymore. BUT, many people have a different journey.

But God left me lots of stuff to work on! I cannot deny that. And he still continues to help me. And that comes about by prayer, by talking to God, and certainly asking him to help me with the obvious wrongs I have committed. I am so much closer to God, because of that process of confessing my sins. I am not losing my salvation, to feel sorry and contrite like David did, (nope, not going to even get into that stupid nonsense about dispensations, which is partly where a lot of this theological nonsense comes from.)

Point blank! The teachings of hypergrace and Word Faith are wrong on every level, and it includes this too!

I am so tired to the doublespeak, too! Certainly, repentance is NOT just a change of mind, that is a bad translation of the word metanoia. It means so much more than that. It means “turning from your sin.” And sometimes,that takes a long time!

I certainly wonder how hypergrace people even grow, when they can make the Bible say anything it wants, when they focuse on feeling good and the self, rather than the basic message of Christianity, which is Jesus dying on the cross for our sins. From Genesis 3 to Revelation we need to confess our sins. And hopefully, feel sorry enough to seek God to help us change, by the power of the Holy Spirit.

like you, I also was fine with the HG until I started seeing what was behind it and I came to understand what people were actually saying

I started reading things like 'we don't have to pay attention to the words of Jesus' and 'we don't have to ask other people for forgiveness (of course Jesus was the One who talked about that and He was 'under the law so no worries) and similar and then I began to realize what was really behind that particular teaching

so even though we are not supposed to talk about it, it creeps up anyway. people constantly bring it up, copy/paste from the sites that teach it and then about dare you to acknowledge and use the term they are actually going on about

it's pretty hypocritical IMO

 

[1ofthem]

How many of your sins does the Bible say were forgiven at the Cross?

-JGIG

When I got saved I had to ask for forgiveness and I was forgiven for all my sins. But that didn't mean I never had to or will have to deal with sin again. God made the way to overcome sin and that is Jesus. That don't mean when I sin I can say thank you Lord for Jesus I'll just keep on doing what I'm doing and rest in my sins knowing Jesus died for them.

We have to get up and go to the throne in the name of Jesus and ask him for the help to overcome sin. And yes, I ask God to forgive me and help me when I sin...Is there something wrong with that?

 

[JGIG]

Changing one's mind is just the first part of repentance. Changing one's mind without a corresponding action is meaningless.

Therefore repent and turn back, so that your sins may be blotted out, Acts 3:19​

First of all, repent and turn back are CLEARLY two different actions. We are not required to turn from sin (clean ourselves up) so that our sins may be blotted out - we are converted (become a New Creation in Christ) and in that our sins are blotted out. ALL of our sins - it does not qualify some of our sins and not others.

Second of all, the ESV (and I love the ESV) is not the best translation of this particular verse. And there are a few versions (paraphrases, mostly, NLT, CEV, GWT, WNT, YLT) that point to one cleaning up one's act to receive the blotting out of sins, but the rest clearly state that it's turning TO God, not away from sin, that results in conversion and the blotting out of one's sin:

New International Version
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

New Living Translation
Now repent of your sins and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped away.

English Standard Version
Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out,

Berean Study Bible
Repent, then, and turn back, so that your sins may be wiped away,

Berean Literal Bible
Repent, therefore, and turn again, for the blotting out of your sins,

New American Standard Bible
"Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;

King James Bible
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Christian Standard Bible
Therefore repent and turn back, so that your sins may be wiped out,

Contemporary English Version
So turn to God! Give up your sins, and you will be forgiven.

Good News Translation
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that he will forgive your sins. If you do,

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Therefore repent and turn back, so that your sins may be wiped out, that seasons of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

International Standard Version
Therefore, repent and turn to him to have your sins blotted out,

NET Bible
Therefore repent and turn back so that your sins may be wiped out,

New Heart English Bible
"Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, so that there may come times of refreshing from the presence of the Lord,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“Repent therefore and be converted, so that your sins will be blotted out, and the times of rest from before the face of THE LORD JEHOVAH will come to you.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
So change the way you think and act, and turn [to God] to have your sins removed.

New American Standard 1977
“Repent therefore and return, that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;

Jubilee Bible 2000
Repent ye therefore and be converted that your sins may be blotted out, for the times of refreshing of the presence of the Lord are come;

King James 2000 Bible
Repent therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

American King James Version
Repent you therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

American Standard Version
Repent ye therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that so there may come seasons of refreshing from the presence of the Lord;

Douay-Rheims Bible
Be penitent, therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out.

Darby Bible Translation
Repent therefore and be converted, for the blotting out of your sins, so that times of refreshing may come from [the] presence of the Lord,

English Revised Version
Repent ye therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that so there may come seasons of refreshing from the presence of the Lord;

Webster's Bible Translation
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord,

Weymouth New Testament
Repent, therefore, and reform your lives, so that the record of your sins may be cancelled, and that there may come seasons of revival from the Lord,

World English Bible
"Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, so that there may come times of refreshing from the presence of the Lord,

Young's Literal Translation
reform ye, therefore, and turn back, for your sins being blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,
​

Does the turning away from sin happen at or after conversion? Yes! Absolutely! Read Romans chapters 5-8! We are cleansed (forgiven in Christ), given the gift of righteousness, and are filled with New Life - the Life of Christ - and become New Creations at conversion. Our sins are WIPED OUT. ALL of them. Forgiveness is the first element of salvation - the cleansing of all sin - so that the Righteousness of God and the Life of Christ can be placed in us, making us a New Creation.

And as New Creations, we begin to walk differently - if we sin, we are miserable - because we're acting contrary to our New Creation nature. Even when we sin, however, there is therefore NO condemnation for those in Christ Jesus (Rom. 8). We can approach God's throne of Grace with boldness and confidence (Heb. 4).

It grieves me that the implications and realities of the New Birth are overlooked so often by so many here at the BDF.

-JGIG

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

First of all, repent and turn back are CLEARLY two different actions. We are not required to turn from sin (clean ourselves up) so that our sins may be blotted out - we are converted (become a New Creation in Christ) and in that our sins are blotted out. ALL of our sins - it does not qualify some of our sins and not others.

Second of all, the ESV (and I love the ESV) is not the best translation of this particular verse. And there are a few versions (paraphrases, mostly, NLT, CEV, GWT, WNT, YLT) that point to one cleaning up one's act to receive the blotting out of sins, but the rest clearly state that it's turning TO God, not away from sin, that results in conversion and the blotting out of one's sin:

It's impossible to turn to GOD without turning from sin.

 

[Shamah]

It's impossible to turn to GOD without turning from sin.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 9:31, "“And we know that YHWH does not hear sinners. But if anyone fears YHWH and does His desire, He hears him."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:19-24, “So, brothers, having boldness to enter into the Set-apart Place by the blood of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], by a new and living way which He instituted for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, and having a High Priest over the House of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], let us draw near with a true heart in completeness of belief, having our hearts sprinkled from a wicked conscience and our bodies washed with clean water. Let us hold fast the confession of our expectation without yielding, for He who promised is trustworthy. And let us be concerned for one another in order to stir up love and good works,”[/FONT]

 

[Shamah]

In many of the study materials I have, dictionaries, encyclopedias, concordances, etc. the ones made before 1973 have repentance as a literal change in ddeds, it says mostly, "to change directions in a 180 degree manner, not returning to the original direction" Post 1973 most say "to chage mind"

GREEK-ENGLISH LEXICON of the NEW TESTAMENT repent/ance 41.50–52


41.50 στρέφομαιc: to change one’s manner of life, with the implication of turning toward God—‘to change one’s ways, to turn to God, to repent.’ ἐὰν μὴ στραφῆτε καὶ γένησθε ὡς τὰ παιδία, οὐ μὴ εἰσέλθητε εἰς τὴν βασιλείαν τῶν οὐρανῶν ‘unless you change your ways and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven’ Mt 18.3. For another interpretation of στρέφομαι in Mt 18.3, see 31.60.


41.51 ἐπιστρέφωd; ἐπιστροφήb, ῆς f: to change one’s manner of life in a particular direction, with the implication of turning back to God—‘to change one’s ways, to turn to God, repentance.’
ἐπιστρέφωd : μήποτε ἐπιστρέψωσιν καὶ ἀφεθῇ αὐτοῖς ‘for if they did, they might turn to God and he would forgive them’ Mk 4.12.
ἐπιστροφήb : ἐκδιηγούμενοι τὴν ἐπιστροφὴν τῶν ἐθνῶν ‘they reported how the Gentiles had turned to God’ Ac 15.3. For a different interpretation of ἐπιστροφή in Ac 15.3, see 31.60.
In a number of languages it is not sufficient to simply translate ‘to change one’s manner of life,’ for this could either be neutral or even suggest a change for the worse. Therefore, it may be necessary in a number of instances to translate ‘to change one’s way of living as God would want’ or ‘to change and live like God would want one to live.’
41.52 μετανοέω; μετάνοια, ας f: to change one’s way of life as the result of a complete change of thought and attitude with regard to sin and righteousness—‘to repent, to change one’s way, repentance.’5
μετανοέω: ἐξελθόντες ἐκήρυξαν ἵνα μετανοῶσιν ‘they went out and preached that the people should repent’ Mk 6.12.
μετάνοια: ἀγνοῶν ὅτι τὸ χρηστὸν τοῦ θεοῦ εἰς μετάνοιάν σε ἄγει; ‘do you fail to understand that God is kind because he wants to lead you to repent?’ Ro 2.4.
Though in English a focal component of repent is the sorrow or contrition that a person experiences because of sin, the emphasis in μετανοέω and μετάνοια seems to be more specifically the total change, both in thought and behavior, with respect to how one should both think and act. Whether the focus is upon attitude or behavior varies somewhat in different contexts. Compare, for example, Lk 3.8, He 6.1, and Ac 26.20.

 

[JGIG]

When I got saved I had to ask for forgiveness and I was forgiven for all my sins. But that didn't mean I never had to or will have to deal with sin again. God made the way to overcome sin and that is Jesus. That don't mean when I sin I can say thank you Lord for Jesus I'll just keep on doing what I'm doing and rest in my sins knowing Jesus died for them.

No one is saying to not deal with sin.

Sin is destructive - to ourselves and to those around us. Sinning is a bad choice, and goes against who we are in Christ.

We have to get up and go to the throne in the name of Jesus and ask him for the help to overcome sin.

Yes, absolutely!

And yes, I ask God to forgive me and help me when I sin...Is there something wrong with that?

If asking for forgiveness makes you feel better, that's fine, but it's not necessary to ask for forgiveness for sins already bled and died for at the Cross. It is absolutely the right thing to do to ask God for help in our times of weakness (Hebrews 4)!

There are some believers, however, who live in absolute constant anxiety about 'keeping short accounts with God', trying to keep every current sinful thought and action confessed so that if they were to get hit by a bus or suffer other sudden death they would not die in an unforgiven state. They live in perpetual fear that they may have missed one, because just one sin can separate them from God! That is no way for any believer to live, and not at all how God intended!

The Cross WORKED. We can REST in that. There is PEACE in that. And in His Grace, God teaches us to say no to ungodliness (Titus 2:11-14). I believe that God is FAR more patient with us than we are with ourselves and with others.

-JGIG

 

[Shamah]

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia - REPENT




To get an accurate idea of the precise New Testament meaning of this highly important word it is necessary to consider its approximate synonyms in the original Hebrew and Greek The psychological elements of repentance should be considered in the light of the general teaching of Scripture.





1. To Repent--"to Pant," "to Sigh":

The Hebrew word naham, is an onomatopoetic term which implies difficulty in breathing, hence, "to pant," "to sigh," "to groan." Naturally it came to signify "to lament" or "to grieve," and when the emotion was produced by the desire of good for others, it merged into compassion and sympathy, and when incited by a consideration of one's own character and deeds it means "to rue," "to repent." To adapt language to our understanding, God is represented as repenting when delayed penalties are at last to be inflicted, or when threatened evils have been averted by genuine reformation (Gen 6:6; Jonah 3:10). This word is translated "repent" about 40 times in the Old Testament, and in nearly all cases it refers to God. The principal idea is not personal relation to sin, either in its experience of grief or in turning from an evil course. Yet the results of sin are manifest in its use. God's heart is grieved at man's iniquity, and in love He bestows His grace, or in justice He terminates His mercy. It indicates the aroused emotions of God which prompt Him to a different course of dealing with the people. Similarly when used with reference to man, only in this case the consciousness of personal transgression is evident. This distinction in the application of the word is intended by such declarations as God "is not a man, that he should repent" (1Sam 15:29; Job 42:6; Jer 8:6).

2. To Repent--"to Turn" or "Return":

The term shubh, is most generally employed to express the Scriptural idea of genuine repentance. It is used extensively by the prophets, and makes prominent the idea of a radical change in one's attitude toward sin and God. It implies a conscious, moral separation, and a personal decision to forsake sin and to enter into fellowship with God. It is employed extensively with reference to man's turning away from sin to righteousness (Deut 4:30; Neh 1:9; Ps 7:12; Jer 3:14). It quite often refers to God in His relation to man (Exod 32:12; Josh 7:26). It is employed to indicate the thorough spiritual change which God alone can effect (Ps 85:4). When the term is translated by "return" it has reference either to man, to God, or to God and man (1Sam 7:3; Ps 90:13 (both terms, nacham and shubh; Isa 21:12; Isa 55:7). Both terms are also sometimes employed when the twofold idea of grief and altered relation is expressed, and are translated by "repent" and "return" (Ezek 14:6; Hos 12:6; Jonah 3:8).

 

[Chester]

It should be understood that when I say "sin confession" I am referring to the practice of sin confession for forgiveness. I am not dismissing sin confession in terms of honing up to our wrongs, being open with the Lord, and asking Him to help us in a troubled area.

"Sin confession for forgiveness" as you term it above is not really true biblical confession at all. I think I understand now what you are trying to say in the thread. But I still don't like the title . . .

 

[JGIG]

1 John 1:8-10

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."


In each of the verses in the passage above, the Greek word used is "ean", which means "if" or "possibly". It's a conditional conjunction. With all conditional conjunctions the condition must first be met in the conditional phrase/statement in order for the rest of the statement to be true.

Taking verse 8...


The two independent thoughts conjoined by "if" are:

1) We confess our sins (condition)
2) God to forgive our sins and cleans us of all unrighteousness (resulting statement)


The context of the verse is "God's faithfulness to forgive one's sins".

So did He or didn't He?

BenFTW is saying He did.

It's that simple.

-JGIG

 

[Chester]

We do not need to say future sin. Let us live in the present. As soon as sin is committed it is past, it is behind us. So as long as you live, as soon as you sin, that sin is washed in the blood of Jesus Christ as if it is a rock in a waterfall. Continually cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ. He did one sacrifice for sin, one offering, and then sat down at the Father's right hand.

That is exactly what I believe Ben - that the blood of Jesus is ongoingly moment by moment cleansing the blood of the person who believes in Christ.

 

[Chester]

Sins were PAID FOR at the Cross -- "And the Lord hath laid upon Him the iniquity of us all'. This is what the Gospel proclaims, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures. The penalty was paid through the sacrifice of Christ.

But it is only when sinners OBEY THE GOSPEL that sins are forgiven. Which means that the sins of the whole world are not automatically forgiven, and no sins were forgiven at the Cross. I trust you see the difference between the blood of Christ being SHED for the sins on the whole world, and the blood of Christ being APPLIED only to those sinners who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

This does not in any way imply that Christians need not deal with their present sins.

I think sins are forgiven not when we "obey the gospel" but when we believe in Jesus Christ (which will result in obedience).

 

[JGIG]

That just speaks of there not being a guilty verdict against those "in Christ" that would cause them to incur GOD's wrath. It says nothing about sins we might commit along the way.

After saying, "But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound", at the end of Romans 5, Paul anticipated that very question and stated in Romans 6 that,

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (from Rom. 6)​

I hope you don't think that "in Christ" means that Christians can do whatever they want and not incur the risk of falling away from being "in Christ".

Do YOU wish you could do whatever you want without fear of losing your 'in Christ' position? Is that what you, as a believer, wish for, to sin sin sin? Is the fear of losing eternal life what keeps you in line?

Because that's the picture you paint - that if there isn't that threat of eternal damnation hanging over our heads, we all just would rather be out there sinning up a blue streak!

That's not who I am in Christ. Is that who you are in Christ?

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. (from Phil. 2)​

-JGIG

 

[ljs]

Agree!

but the question is who are the successors of the apostles in your religious group who were given by Christ to forgive sins?

And how do your religious ministers have the power to forgive sins if not by means of our Sacrament of Confession where you will tell your sins and the priest will forgive you on behalf of Jesus?

Pls. clarify.

I dont confess my sins to a priest or preacher , I go straight to the Throne of Grace , that is the only place to go

 

[1ofthem]

No one is saying to not deal with sin.

Sin is destructive - to ourselves and to those around us. Sinning is a bad choice, and goes against who we are in Christ.




Yes, absolutely!





If asking for forgiveness makes you feel better, that's fine, but it's not necessary to ask for forgiveness for sins already bled and died for at the Cross. It is absolutely the right thing to do to ask God for help in our times of weakness (Hebrews 4)!

There are some believers, however, who live in absolute constant anxiety about 'keeping short accounts with God', trying to keep every current sinful thought and action confessed so that if they were to get hit by a bus or suffer other sudden death they would not die in an unforgiven state. They live in perpetual fear that they may have missed one, because just one sin can separate them from God! That is no way for any believer to live, and not at all how God intended!

The Cross WORKED. We can REST in that. There is PEACE in that. And in His Grace, God teaches us to say no to ungodliness (Titus 2:11-14). I believe that God is FAR more patient with us than we are with ourselves and with others.

-JGIG

I can agree with most of what you are saying here. To me it is out of reverence and respect to God and his holy ways to ask for forgiveness of my sins, though. Not that I am making a list and worried if I don't hit everyone single one of them, I'll be lost, but that I confess and admit that I have sinned and ask for forgiveness and help in dealing with sin.

I can't hide my sin from God, so I don't even try. I take it to him and ask for forgiveness and help.

I have known people in my life that do take Jesus' sacrifice for granted. They do not think they even have to deal with sin. They think Jesus died on the cross so that they can just go on sinning and not even have to deal with it because it is already been forgiven. That's why I think people should be clear when they are discussing this issue. We have to deal with sin and ask for help with it. There are some out there that will trample under foot the blood of the Lamb and think that it gives them a license to keep right on sinning and never really deal with it thinking that it's cool with God.

 

[ljs]

Jesus dealt with sin over 2000 yrs ago , when he suffered and bled and died on the cross, was buried and rose again !!

When I sin , ( and I do ) I go to my Father in heaven , tell him im sorry , and ask him thru the Holy Spirit who indwells me , to help me do better the next time , but I know my sin is already forgiven , even the ones I havent committed yet

 

[Shamah]

Jesus dealt with sin over 2000 yrs ago , when he suffered and bled and died on the cross, was buried and rose again !!

When I sin , ( and I do ) I go to my Father in heaven , tell him im sorry , and ask him thru the Holy Spirit who indwells me , to help me do better the next time , but I know my sin is already forgiven , even the ones I havent committed yet

praiseYah!

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 7:24-25,"but He, because He remains forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. Therefore He is also able to save completely those who draw near to [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]through Him[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], ever living to make intercession for them."[/FONT]