10 Reasons Sin Confession Is Questionable!!!
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I think her point ultimately gets to a question. From whence does your forgiveness originate? You would try to make caveats about sin confession for forgiveness, but with God there is no caveat. It is black and white. You are either forgiven or condemned. There isn't a middle ground. Saved or unsaved.
None of this maintaining salvation through sin confession works based tradition. Saved then condemned, saved, and then lost. In and out of Christ, in and out of the light. No, this is all so wrong. In the light, that is Jesus Christ, we are forgiven of all sin because the blood of Jesus Christ has cleansed us from all unrighteousness.
None of this maintaining salvation through sin confession works based tradition. Saved then condemned, saved, and then lost. In and out of Christ, in and out of the light. No, this is all so wrong. In the light, that is Jesus Christ, we are forgiven of all sin because the blood of Jesus Christ has cleansed us from all unrighteousness.
U
[FONT="]Italians do not like "fiascos" we usually stay away.
[/FONT] [FONT="]I do think this is about hyper grace or word of faith doctrine per se… but the etymology of the word “repentance” (coming from the Latin, paena, with an inherent meaning of pain, paetentia)
[/FONT]
[FONT="]I find it interesting the prefix “re” means to look back, do again. looking back is a place of emotion and regret.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]“Meta” on the other hand when looks at the etymology means “after” “change” and “nous” meaning mind, much like the word “paranoia” ……etymologically “against the mind”
[/FONT]
[FONT="]Repentance coming from Latin was a poor translation of the word metanoia but it suited the Roman church fathers who oppressed the truth.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]It is also interesting that in 1430 a Catholic theologian who realized the mistake that Jerome had made in the Latin Vulgate and the poor translation of metanoia as "penance" was forced to renounce his beliefs on it since Rome was making money on penance “paetentia” and was not willing to change.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]Yet even with the word repentance with the etymological root penance/paetentia remains, yet metanoia has no meaning or sense of pain from its etymology.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]And I have checked this article on Valla who questioned the translation via my university database and it is authentic.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]Prosser, Peter E. (2001). "Church history's biggest hoax: Renaissance scholarship proved fatal for one of the medieval papacy's favorite claims". Christian History. 20 (Journal Article): 35–. ISSN 0891-9666[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT]
[/FONT] [FONT="]I do think this is about hyper grace or word of faith doctrine per se… but the etymology of the word “repentance” (coming from the Latin, paena, with an inherent meaning of pain, paetentia)
[/FONT]
[FONT="]I find it interesting the prefix “re” means to look back, do again. looking back is a place of emotion and regret.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]“Meta” on the other hand when looks at the etymology means “after” “change” and “nous” meaning mind, much like the word “paranoia” ……etymologically “against the mind”
[/FONT]
[FONT="]Repentance coming from Latin was a poor translation of the word metanoia but it suited the Roman church fathers who oppressed the truth.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]It is also interesting that in 1430 a Catholic theologian who realized the mistake that Jerome had made in the Latin Vulgate and the poor translation of metanoia as "penance" was forced to renounce his beliefs on it since Rome was making money on penance “paetentia” and was not willing to change.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]Yet even with the word repentance with the etymological root penance/paetentia remains, yet metanoia has no meaning or sense of pain from its etymology.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]And I have checked this article on Valla who questioned the translation via my university database and it is authentic.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]Prosser, Peter E. (2001). "Church history's biggest hoax: Renaissance scholarship proved fatal for one of the medieval papacy's favorite claims". Christian History. 20 (Journal Article): 35–. ISSN 0891-9666[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT]
Amen., The way we win is when we agree with what God's word says about Jesus and what Jesus has done for us and in us.
There is no daily battle to BE a son, that FACT never changes because Jesus settled that by His blood., WE ARE THE SONS OF GOD.
What we have to do is know it by faith and live it by faith. Our situations in this life (as varied and numbered as they are)., NEVER changes who we have been MADE INTO and who we ARE IN CHRIST. But the truth of this SONSHIP given to us by Jesus changes how we live here on earth and how we walk in the Spirit and how we serve Jesus and how we can be used by Him. And how much JOY we will have here on earth.
The JOY of the Lord is our strength. AMEN!!
I ask legitimate questions — no farce on my part.
It appears to me that you believe that we must confess our sins in order to be born again. I showed you straight from Scripture that we confess Jesus Christ is Lord and believe in our heart that God has raised Him from the dead (Romans 10:9-10).
Read the whole chapter of Rom 10. There is no mention that we confess sin.
The moment we are born again, we are made righteous in the sight of God (for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation — Rom 10:10).
From and after the time we are born again, then confess when we realize we are no longer close to Father. Turn to Father ... talk to Him ... lay our hearts bare before Him ... ask Him to help us in our time of need. He is faithful. He is just. He sits on a throne of grace. We obtain mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.
And sometimes we don't understand exactly what we've done to break fellowship. We just know that we have stumbled and we've strayed from the path.
And we know this because we don't have the peace that passes understanding, or we miss the joy that comes with close fellowship with Father. Somehow we've turned and we might not know exactly what occurred to cause us to turn. We just know we're not in sync with Father.
What "sin" do we confess when we don't know what we've done to break fellowship?
It appears to me that you believe that we must confess our sins in order to be born again. I showed you straight from Scripture that we confess Jesus Christ is Lord and believe in our heart that God has raised Him from the dead (Romans 10:9-10).
Read the whole chapter of Rom 10. There is no mention that we confess sin.
The moment we are born again, we are made righteous in the sight of God (for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation — Rom 10:10).
From and after the time we are born again, then confess when we realize we are no longer close to Father. Turn to Father ... talk to Him ... lay our hearts bare before Him ... ask Him to help us in our time of need. He is faithful. He is just. He sits on a throne of grace. We obtain mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.
And sometimes we don't understand exactly what we've done to break fellowship. We just know that we have stumbled and we've strayed from the path.
And we know this because we don't have the peace that passes understanding, or we miss the joy that comes with close fellowship with Father. Somehow we've turned and we might not know exactly what occurred to cause us to turn. We just know we're not in sync with Father.
What "sin" do we confess when we don't know what we've done to break fellowship?
I am forgiven by G-d not by people.... I agree with you. And I HATE THE CATHOLIC RELIGION, so I in no way believe in confession like that CULT. But the Scripture does say confessing your sins to one another, if I ignore that I ignore G-d. What I have come to know in my 26+ years as a christian is some sins, already forgiven by G-d because I repented, I will, and have, repeated because I keep them a secret. Like sexual sins, addictions. I need accountability for these, not for forgiveness but to not do them. I think it was G-d's wisdom, I am confident in forgiveness (probably a cocky confidence) but there is something about about telling the truth to another human being to that SUCKS. So I think that is why G-d said to confess our sins to one another. Not for forgiveness but so we wont sin in the first place!!!!
Sins were PAID FOR at the Cross -- "And the Lord hath laid upon Him the iniquity of us all'. This is what the Gospel proclaims, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures. The penalty was paid through the sacrifice of Christ.
But it is only when sinners OBEY THE GOSPEL that sins are forgiven. Which means that the sins of the whole world are not automatically forgiven, and no sins were forgiven at the Cross. I trust you see the difference between the blood of Christ being SHED for the sins on the whole world, and the blood of Christ being APPLIED only to those sinners who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
This does not in any way imply that Christians need not deal with their present sins.
But it is only when sinners OBEY THE GOSPEL that sins are forgiven. Which means that the sins of the whole world are not automatically forgiven, and no sins were forgiven at the Cross. I trust you see the difference between the blood of Christ being SHED for the sins on the whole world, and the blood of Christ being APPLIED only to those sinners who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
This does not in any way imply that Christians need not deal with their present sins.
Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin.
Jesus shed His Blood, once for all, for all time.
We enter into the forgiveness Jesus provided at the Cross by faith in His Work.
He's not coming back to shed more of His Blood in order to forgive sins you have yet to commit in your future - ALL of your sins of your sins were in the future at the time of the Cross! Either they were ALL forgiven or NONE of them were!
What does Scripture say? Forgiveness of all sins was accomplished at the Cross - it's ALL OVER the New Covenant Scriptures - Romans, Ephesians, Colossians, Galatians, 1 John, etc.
Come on, look up all the Scriptures on the forgiveness of sins after the Cross and show us where we have to ASK REPEATEDLY for the forgiveness of sins.
Also give examples where to become or remain a believer one must ask for forgiveness.
Oh, and one more thing: Show us in the Scriptures where Jesus made even ONE PERSON confess their sins to Him before He would forgive them.
And before you go making assumptions, I, like Ben, am not saying that confession of sins either to God or to one another is a bad thing - NO! It's a good thing, recognizing when we mess up! BUT - we HAVE the forgiveness of God, we don't confess to GET more forgiveness from God. If you are in Christ, you are a forgiven person. You're not getting forgiven, or slip in or out of forgiveness dependent on your behavior - you ARE FORGIVEN, based on what Christ has done, not on whether or not you behave well or ask for more forgiveness when you don't.
Read Hebrews 4:14-16 and Ephesians 3:12. It details about how to approach God's throne of Grace, and doesn't mention asking for forgiveness, because forgiveness is something we ALREADY HAVE, and because we have it, we may approach God's throne boldly, with confidence \o/!
14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. 16 Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. (from Heb. 4)
Because of Christ and our faith in him, we can now come boldly and confidently into God's presence. (from Eph. 3, NLT)
-JGIG
Jesus shed His Blood, once for all, for all time.
We enter into the forgiveness Jesus provided at the Cross by faith in His Work.
He's not coming back to shed more of His Blood in order to forgive sins you have yet to commit in your future - ALL of your sins of your sins were in the future at the time of the Cross! Either they were ALL forgiven or NONE of them were!
What does Scripture say? Forgiveness of all sins was accomplished at the Cross - it's ALL OVER the New Covenant Scriptures - Romans, Ephesians, Colossians, Galatians, 1 John, etc.
Come on, look up all the Scriptures on the forgiveness of sins after the Cross and show us where we have to ASK REPEATEDLY for the forgiveness of sins.
Also give examples where to become or remain a believer one must ask for forgiveness.
Oh, and one more thing: Show us in the Scriptures where Jesus made even ONE PERSON confess their sins to Him before He would forgive them.
And before you go making assumptions, I, like Ben, am not saying that confession of sins either to God or to one another is a bad thing - NO! It's a good thing, recognizing when we mess up! BUT - we HAVE the forgiveness of God, we don't confess to GET more forgiveness from God. If you are in Christ, you are a forgiven person. You're not getting forgiven, or slip in or out of forgiveness dependent on your behavior - you ARE FORGIVEN, based on what Christ has done, not on whether or not you behave well or ask for more forgiveness when you don't.
Read Hebrews 4:14-16 and Ephesians 3:12. It details about how to approach God's throne of Grace, and doesn't mention asking for forgiveness, because forgiveness is something we ALREADY HAVE, and because we have it, we may approach God's throne boldly, with confidence \o/!
14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. 16 Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. (from Heb. 4)
Because of Christ and our faith in him, we can now come boldly and confidently into God's presence. (from Eph. 3, NLT)
-JGIG
And we can take it much further than that when we go to the throne of grace.... We will never have broken fellowship with God because nothing can separate us from Him. The one who suffers the most from not walking in the TRUTH is us. But we have the Holy Spirit for such times to always remind us we ARE the righteousness of God IN Christ and have blood bought rights IN the Beloved.
We are accepted because of Jesus for salvation (by grace through faith) and for our ability to work out our own salvation meaning we are working OUT what Jesus has already worked IN .., not based on how well we can "get back" into fellowship.
Jesus makes us saved and sanctified. Not us. (By grace through faith)
FOR THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS HAS SET US FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH.
When we don't know this truth and live it., we are open to the enemies LIES of condemnation and our confusion. The enemy lies and counts on us (in our flesh) to depend on our flesh and not on JESUS and His gift of righteousness to us. The enemy wants us to look at our flesh and not the born again new creation we were made in Christ. The old is gone...the new has come.
But the devil wants us to look back and not look away to JESUS.
The enemy wants us to look at ourselves and our own righteousness shown out in our flesh., and go to God on the grounds of our behavior - our old manner of living. NO>>> There IS NO CONDEMNATION for those who are IN CHRIST JESUS. The condemnation we feel is from the world...the flesh...the devil. Not from God.
When we go to God or ask of Him on the basis of ourselves for ANYTHING we have NO claim on it because we do it from our flesh. And the flesh is apposed to the Spirit and vs/vs. That is why many Christians are not walking in victory and many sleep.
The fellowship with God IN CHRIST is not severed nor can it ever be., it's our sin., guilt and shame that causes us to move away from God. But we are not bound to that old manner of life anymore. We are and have been SET FREE... And it's Jesus who gives us any right to come to the throne of grace and find help in time of need. (not our willingness to admit and take on shame and guilt and sorrow payments) Jesus already took those things on Himself at the Cross.
Grace means unmerited unearned love and favor and we don't have that based on how sorry, mournful., wretched., miserable we feel taking on that fleshly DUE by punishing ourselves.... we are only righteous based on what Jesus did on the cross. We cannot pay for it with our self loathing much like Catholics do trying to carry their cross down an imaginary path of passion before being nailed to the cross themselves.
Gal.2:20 [SUP]20 [/SUP]I have been crucified with Christ [in Him I have shared His crucifixion]; it is no longer I who live, but Christ (the Messiah) lives in me; and the life I now live in the body I live by faith in (by adherence to and reliance on and complete trust in) the Son of God, Who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
When a believer gets a hold of this major truth of God's LOVE and GRACE in their daily lives., that is when they begin to understand the height and length and breath of the love of God IN Christ. And that is what God wants us to KNOW because when we know we are loved unconditionally., We walk in confidence., we are motivated....constrained and restrained IN THAT LOVE of God. We begin walking in the truth and are able to deal with the fiery darts of the wicked one.
He has no power over us but what we yield. Romans 8:1-9
8 Therefore, [there is] now no condemnation (no adjudging guilty of wrong) for those who are in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life [which is] in Christ Jesus [the law of our new being] has freed me from the law of sin and of death.
[SUP]
3 [/SUP]For God has done what the Law could not do, [its power] being weakened by the flesh [[SUP][a][/SUP]the entire nature of man without the Holy Spirit]. Sending His own Son in the guise of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, [God] condemned sin in the flesh [[SUP][b][/SUP]subdued, overcame, [SUP][c][/SUP]deprived it of its power over all who accept that sacrifice],
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]So that the righteous and just requirement of the Law might be fully met in us who live and move not in the ways of the flesh but in the ways of the Spirit [our lives governed not by the standards and according to the dictates of the flesh, but controlled by the Holy Spirit].
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]For those who are according to the flesh and are controlled by its unholy desires set their minds on and [SUP][d][/SUP]pursue those things which gratify the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit and are controlled by the desires of the Spirit set their minds on and [SUP][e][/SUP]seek those things which gratify the [Holy] Spirit.
[SUP]
6 [/SUP]Now the mind of the flesh [which is sense and reason without the Holy Spirit] is death [death that [SUP][f][/SUP]comprises all the miseries arising from sin, both here and hereafter]. But the mind of the [Holy] Spirit is life and [soul] peace [both now and forever].
[SUP]
7 [/SUP][That is] because the mind of the flesh [with its carnal thoughts and purposes] is hostile to God, for it does not submit itself to God’s Law; indeed it cannot.
[SUP]
8 [/SUP]So then those who are living the life of the flesh [catering to the appetites and impulses of their carnal nature] cannot please or satisfy God, or be acceptable to Him.
[SUP]
9 [/SUP]But you are not living the life of the flesh, you are living the life of the Spirit, if the [Holy] Spirit of God [really] dwells within you [directs and controls you]. But if anyone does not possess the [Holy] Spirit of Christ, he is none of His [he does not belong to Christ, is not truly a child of God].
When you meditate on these and other truths about our standing in Christ., (and there are many) the Holy Spirit ministers to us and out of our belly shall flow rivers of living water. This also reminds me of the washing of the water of the Word. The work of the Holy Sprit ministering to us about Jesus. It always goes back to JESUS. And this is not legality but REDEMPTION.
Bringing Holy Spirit JOY and peace.... THE JOY OF THE LORD IS OUR STRENGTH. AMEN!!
We are accepted because of Jesus for salvation (by grace through faith) and for our ability to work out our own salvation meaning we are working OUT what Jesus has already worked IN .., not based on how well we can "get back" into fellowship.
Jesus makes us saved and sanctified. Not us. (By grace through faith)
FOR THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS HAS SET US FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH.
When we don't know this truth and live it., we are open to the enemies LIES of condemnation and our confusion. The enemy lies and counts on us (in our flesh) to depend on our flesh and not on JESUS and His gift of righteousness to us. The enemy wants us to look at our flesh and not the born again new creation we were made in Christ. The old is gone...the new has come.
But the devil wants us to look back and not look away to JESUS.
The enemy wants us to look at ourselves and our own righteousness shown out in our flesh., and go to God on the grounds of our behavior - our old manner of living. NO>>> There IS NO CONDEMNATION for those who are IN CHRIST JESUS. The condemnation we feel is from the world...the flesh...the devil. Not from God.
When we go to God or ask of Him on the basis of ourselves for ANYTHING we have NO claim on it because we do it from our flesh. And the flesh is apposed to the Spirit and vs/vs. That is why many Christians are not walking in victory and many sleep.
The fellowship with God IN CHRIST is not severed nor can it ever be., it's our sin., guilt and shame that causes us to move away from God. But we are not bound to that old manner of life anymore. We are and have been SET FREE... And it's Jesus who gives us any right to come to the throne of grace and find help in time of need. (not our willingness to admit and take on shame and guilt and sorrow payments) Jesus already took those things on Himself at the Cross.
Grace means unmerited unearned love and favor and we don't have that based on how sorry, mournful., wretched., miserable we feel taking on that fleshly DUE by punishing ourselves.... we are only righteous based on what Jesus did on the cross. We cannot pay for it with our self loathing much like Catholics do trying to carry their cross down an imaginary path of passion before being nailed to the cross themselves.
Gal.2:20 [SUP]20 [/SUP]I have been crucified with Christ [in Him I have shared His crucifixion]; it is no longer I who live, but Christ (the Messiah) lives in me; and the life I now live in the body I live by faith in (by adherence to and reliance on and complete trust in) the Son of God, Who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
When a believer gets a hold of this major truth of God's LOVE and GRACE in their daily lives., that is when they begin to understand the height and length and breath of the love of God IN Christ. And that is what God wants us to KNOW because when we know we are loved unconditionally., We walk in confidence., we are motivated....constrained and restrained IN THAT LOVE of God. We begin walking in the truth and are able to deal with the fiery darts of the wicked one.
He has no power over us but what we yield. Romans 8:1-9
8 Therefore, [there is] now no condemnation (no adjudging guilty of wrong) for those who are in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life [which is] in Christ Jesus [the law of our new being] has freed me from the law of sin and of death.
[SUP]
3 [/SUP]For God has done what the Law could not do, [its power] being weakened by the flesh [[SUP][a][/SUP]the entire nature of man without the Holy Spirit]. Sending His own Son in the guise of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, [God] condemned sin in the flesh [[SUP][b][/SUP]subdued, overcame, [SUP][c][/SUP]deprived it of its power over all who accept that sacrifice],
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]So that the righteous and just requirement of the Law might be fully met in us who live and move not in the ways of the flesh but in the ways of the Spirit [our lives governed not by the standards and according to the dictates of the flesh, but controlled by the Holy Spirit].
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]For those who are according to the flesh and are controlled by its unholy desires set their minds on and [SUP][d][/SUP]pursue those things which gratify the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit and are controlled by the desires of the Spirit set their minds on and [SUP][e][/SUP]seek those things which gratify the [Holy] Spirit.
[SUP]
6 [/SUP]Now the mind of the flesh [which is sense and reason without the Holy Spirit] is death [death that [SUP][f][/SUP]comprises all the miseries arising from sin, both here and hereafter]. But the mind of the [Holy] Spirit is life and [soul] peace [both now and forever].
[SUP]
7 [/SUP][That is] because the mind of the flesh [with its carnal thoughts and purposes] is hostile to God, for it does not submit itself to God’s Law; indeed it cannot.
[SUP]
8 [/SUP]So then those who are living the life of the flesh [catering to the appetites and impulses of their carnal nature] cannot please or satisfy God, or be acceptable to Him.
[SUP]
9 [/SUP]But you are not living the life of the flesh, you are living the life of the Spirit, if the [Holy] Spirit of God [really] dwells within you [directs and controls you]. But if anyone does not possess the [Holy] Spirit of Christ, he is none of His [he does not belong to Christ, is not truly a child of God].
When you meditate on these and other truths about our standing in Christ., (and there are many) the Holy Spirit ministers to us and out of our belly shall flow rivers of living water. This also reminds me of the washing of the water of the Word. The work of the Holy Sprit ministering to us about Jesus. It always goes back to JESUS. And this is not legality but REDEMPTION.
Bringing Holy Spirit JOY and peace.... THE JOY OF THE LORD IS OUR STRENGTH. AMEN!!
HI JGIG!!!!!
And how amazing is it that we have not communicated in sooo long yet both of us are JOYFULLY expressing the love and grace of God in our lives by sharing it here on these posts!! It never gets old! To be daily encouraged again by reading about Jesus love and His full forgiveness given to us as our life long standing in Him. He is and always will be our GREAT HIGH PRIEST FOREVER MAKING INTERCESSION FOR THE SAINTS!!!
Italians do not like "fiascos" we usually stay away.
I do think this is about hyper grace or word of faith doctrine per se… but the etymology of the word “repentance” (coming from the Latin, paena, with an inherent meaning of pain, paetentia)
I find it interesting the prefix “re” means to look back, do again. looking back is a place of emotion and regret.
“Meta” on the other hand when looks at the etymology means “after” “change” and “nous” meaning mind, much like the word “paranoia” ……etymologically “against the mind”
Repentance coming from Latin was a poor translation of the word metanoia but it suited the Roman church fathers who oppressed the truth.
It is also interesting that in 1430 a Catholic theologian who realized the mistake that Jerome had made in the Latin Vulgate and the poor translation of metanoia as "penance" was forced to renounce his beliefs on it since Rome was making money on penance “paetentia” and was not willing to change.
Yet even with the word repentance with the etymological root penance/paetentia remains, yet metanoia has no meaning or sense of pain from its etymology.
And I have checked this article on Valla who questioned the translation via my university database and it is authentic.
Prosser, Peter E. (2001). "Church history's biggest hoax: Renaissance scholarship proved fatal for one of the medieval papacy's favorite claims". Christian History. 20 (Journal Article): 35–. ISSN 0891-9666
I do think this is about hyper grace or word of faith doctrine per se… but the etymology of the word “repentance” (coming from the Latin, paena, with an inherent meaning of pain, paetentia)
I find it interesting the prefix “re” means to look back, do again. looking back is a place of emotion and regret.
“Meta” on the other hand when looks at the etymology means “after” “change” and “nous” meaning mind, much like the word “paranoia” ……etymologically “against the mind”
Repentance coming from Latin was a poor translation of the word metanoia but it suited the Roman church fathers who oppressed the truth.
It is also interesting that in 1430 a Catholic theologian who realized the mistake that Jerome had made in the Latin Vulgate and the poor translation of metanoia as "penance" was forced to renounce his beliefs on it since Rome was making money on penance “paetentia” and was not willing to change.
Yet even with the word repentance with the etymological root penance/paetentia remains, yet metanoia has no meaning or sense of pain from its etymology.
And I have checked this article on Valla who questioned the translation via my university database and it is authentic.
Prosser, Peter E. (2001). "Church history's biggest hoax: Renaissance scholarship proved fatal for one of the medieval papacy's favorite claims". Christian History. 20 (Journal Article): 35–. ISSN 0891-9666
I don’t know anything about Latin, and quite frankly I don’t care. I am not Catholic, never was Catholic, went to Baptist Sunday school as a child. We had a dual public school system, Protestant and Catholic. Catholics were Papists, idolaters, even if they were our next door neighbour, we had nothing to do with them! My attitude has softened, I know they are mostly lost, think they need to do works to be saved, and need Christ.
So now that we have dispersed with things that have nothing to do with the topic, let’s get back to this nonsense that hypergrace has redefined the real meaning of metanoia. Now Greek is a language I do know well. And what I know is that this nonsense of metanoia meaning "change of mind" was invented by people who don't know Greek at all. Like Joseph Prince, and Paul Ellis, and Bruce, who used to constantly peddle this false definition which I confronted him on numerous times, and he never had an answer.
The fact is, in Greek, like most languages, compound words do 1 of 3 things.
1. They mean the sum of the two words put together. For instance, inside, means on the "in" or "inner" part of something. Like inside a house. Housetop, simply means the top of a house.
This is the kind of word English speakers with little knowledge of grammar, let alone Greek try to make metanoia into.
2. A compound word can intensify the meanings of the two words. Rainstorm conveys a lot more about the kind of storm, and the kind of rain. Together, they create a broader picture than each word in isolation. But, it is still rain and storms!
3. A compound word can mean something totally different from the two words. Butterfly is a perfect example of this. Butterflies are neither made of butter, nor are they flies.
While the foundation of the word metanoia, can be seen as a change of mind, in the Bible, it means so much more!
It means "turning about, conversion." It means turning away from sin. And on the positive side, yes, it certainly means "Turning towards God."
Even Jesus himself said.
"I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.” Luke 5:32
So, in what way is repentance not connected to sinners?? And when he had risen, what did he say??
"Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47 and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem." Luke 24:45-47
Repentance and sin is almost always connected in the Bible.
"God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins." Acts 5:31
Repentance or metanoia μετάνοια is a noun, and it appears 22 times in the NT. There is also the verb metavoeo, μετανοέω, which is found in the Bible 34 times.
When Peter preaches to the crowds on the Day of Pentecost, did Peter say, "Repent and change your mind?" No, he did not!
"And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38
All this comes from Bauer, or BDAG, the top Greek lexicon. (3d Edition, page 640)
But, do you know what is most interesting? Bauer lists all the works that say metanoia means "change of mind." In fact, those sources are various ancient Greek writers. Not one place in the Bible is metanoia used to mean "change of mind." It always has to do with "turning from sin."
Now, why do you think that is?
Very simple! Jesus was a Jew, and his disciples were Jews, and most of the NT writers were Jews. That means, they totally believed in the revelation of the OT. They understood the Fall in the Garden of Eden, and the sacrifice of animals to provide skins for Adam and Eve. They understood that a sacrifice and shedding of blood was necessary for sins. They understood the role of priests and Levites, and how Jesus fulfilled all those shadows.
The Jews knew that although Greek words had certain connotations, but they took those Greek words, and attached Hebrew or Jewish ways of thinking. NO Jew would ever think that the sacrifice for sin was "changing their minds." How ridiculous!
When they came to Christ, it was second nature for them to understand the purpose and work of a high priest was to offer a sacrifice for the sins of the people, and that Jesus was the new high priest.
"For every high priest chosen from among men is appointed to act on behalf of men in relation to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins" Hebrews 5:1
"So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made a high priest, but was appointed by him who said to him,[FONT="][FONT="]“You are my Son,
today I have begotten you”;[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]6 as he says also in another place,[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]“You are a priest forever,
after the order of Melchizedek.” Hebrews 5:5-6
[/FONT]
[/FONT]
Pleased Undergrace, no more copy and pastes about Latin, when it has NOTHING to do with Greek or Hebrew, nothing to do with the moving of God to save his people, from Genesis 3 to the book of Revelation.
"and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood."Revelation 1:5
This message that once we are justified we are perfect, we don't have to do anything more, is a lie of the devil. True, it is God that saves - totally! But, the Bible is clear, that we won't be perfect till we see Jesus face to face.
The thing I just don't get, why would you want to lie, and deny your sins? Why would you lie and pretend you have done nothing wrong, because you were saved a year ago, or 10 years ago, or 50 years ago!?
We need to confess our sins, not just occasionally, but when they happen. We need to seek God, and he will help us turn away from those sins, and that is yet another factor in growing in character in the Lord. It would be terrible if someone stayed in the same place as when they were saved! I'm so glad that I have the opportunity to pray to God, to let him know my sins, and in turn, to watch him transforming me and working in my life.
Finally, the Word of God is clear, that we do feel pain when we are led to repent. Do none of you read the Bible, except as mediated through some cult leader? We are hurt or sad, when we become aware of our sins. Very clear in this following passage that we come to repentance when we are made aware of our sins, and we grieve them, or we are made sad by them, or sorry!
"Now I rejoice, not because you were made sad, but because you were made sad to the point of repentance. For you were made sad as God intended, so that you were not harmed in any way by us." 2 Cor. 7:9 NET
TLB puts it perfectly:
"[FONT="]Now I am glad I sent it, not because it hurt you but because the pain turned you to God." 2 Cor. 7:9a[/FONT]
As for not repenting from sin, let us look at the last part of the last letter Paul wrote, which was to the Corinthians, very late in his life, from Rome, where he was under guard.
"I am afraid that when I come again, my God may humiliate me before you, and I will grieve for many of those who previously sinned and have not repented of the impurity, sexual immorality, and licentiousness that they have practiced." 2 Cor. 12:21
My advice is that you read the Bible from cover to cover a few times, and learn what it is about. Hypergrace and Word Faith are both lies, and they have nothing to do with the truth the lies in the Bible. Stay away from the internet and false teachers, who would lead even the very elect astray and you will grow the way God intended!
Please back up your ideas with contextual Scriptures.
The Good News - the Gospel - is that God is no longer holding mankind's sins against them. The only sin that now separates anyone from God is the sin of unbelief in Christ:
And THAT is the Good News - and that for which we are exhorted to be ambassadors:
Look up all the places where the Scripture tells us that Christ's Blood was poured out for the forgiveness of sins. Lots of places. Forgiveness WAS accomplished at the Cross. It had to be, because without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins. It's not OUR obedience that results in forgiveness, but HIS, which led Him to shed His cleansing Blood.
-JGIG
The Good News - the Gospel - is that God is no longer holding mankind's sins against them. The only sin that now separates anyone from God is the sin of unbelief in Christ:
18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them.
And THAT is the Good News - and that for which we are exhorted to be ambassadors:
And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (from 2 Cor. 5:18-21)
Look up all the places where the Scripture tells us that Christ's Blood was poured out for the forgiveness of sins. Lots of places. Forgiveness WAS accomplished at the Cross. It had to be, because without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins. It's not OUR obedience that results in forgiveness, but HIS, which led Him to shed His cleansing Blood.
-JGIG
Angela., Read what the fruit of the Spirit is telling us here in Gal.5:22-26
[SUP]
,[/SUP][SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit [the work which His presence within accomplishes] is love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance), kindness, goodness (benevolence), faithfulness,
[SUP]
23 [/SUP]Gentleness (meekness, humility), self-control (self-restraint, continence). Against such things there is no law [[SUP][f][/SUP]that can bring a charge].
[SUP]
24 [/SUP]And those who belong to Christ Jesus (the Messiah) have crucified the flesh (the godless human nature) with its passions and appetites and desires.
[SUP]
25 [/SUP]If we live by the [Holy] Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. [If by the Holy Spirit [SUP][g][/SUP]we have our life in God, let us go forward [SUP][h][/SUP]walking in line, our conduct controlled by the Spirit.]
[SUP]
26 [/SUP]Let us not become vainglorious and self-conceited, competitive and challenging and provoking and irritating to one another, envying and being jealous of one another.
[SUP]
,[/SUP][SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit [the work which His presence within accomplishes] is love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance), kindness, goodness (benevolence), faithfulness,
[SUP]
23 [/SUP]Gentleness (meekness, humility), self-control (self-restraint, continence). Against such things there is no law [[SUP][f][/SUP]that can bring a charge].
[SUP]
24 [/SUP]And those who belong to Christ Jesus (the Messiah) have crucified the flesh (the godless human nature) with its passions and appetites and desires.
[SUP]
25 [/SUP]If we live by the [Holy] Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. [If by the Holy Spirit [SUP][g][/SUP]we have our life in God, let us go forward [SUP][h][/SUP]walking in line, our conduct controlled by the Spirit.]
[SUP]
26 [/SUP]Let us not become vainglorious and self-conceited, competitive and challenging and provoking and irritating to one another, envying and being jealous of one another.
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