Not By Works

[BillG]

God bless you bro

see you soon

You as well my bro

 

[NoNameMcgee]

It also doesn't change faith without works is dead!! You keep ignoring that. Works validates a saving faith. As James said, "I'll show you my faith by my works." The two are bound together.

uhhh when did he ignore that an already saved born again believer will have works?

No one has disputed that bro.....the bible is clear on the following truths

Paul-->Romans-->A man is justified (rendered innocent) before God by faith void of works
James-->James-->A man's invisible faith that justifies before God (void of works) is seen by men in our works

FAITH and FAITH alone saves eternally
FAITH that saves eternally will produce fruit/works....even if but one piece!

but a reminder to you endo

it is not by our works we are saved


it is the work of Christ

 

[UnderGrace]

Exactly one needs a body that is alive and doing things to see faith.

Works reveal faith not validate it.

It really is that simple, it is not about losing salvation

It also doesn't change faith without works is dead!! You keep ignoring that. Works validates a saving faith. As James said, "I'll show you my faith by my works." The two are bound together.

 

[Endoscopy]

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Charity is greater than faith.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Faith works by love.

1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father.

2Th 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power.

Faith is a work for everything we do is a work.

Charity is greater than faith,and without charity,love in action,then faith does not apply.

1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Charity,love in action,and James plainly states that a person is justified by works,and not by faith only,and he is saying it is a spiritual issue,for without works can faith save him.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Charity,love in action.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness(money,material,their wants): from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Paul says the same thing as James,and John,have charity,love in action,or you are nothing,and you have erred from the faith,for the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy.

Anybody that holds unto going by their wants falls victim to the love of money.

Charity does not think an evil thought,does not sin by the Spirit,does not belittle people,is not selfish,only goes by their needs,and helps other people with their needs,and has works for the kingdom of God.

If people hold unto something that is not of love then faith does not apply in their life,but many people hold unto sin claiming Christ so then faith cannot apply in their life.

They do not want to listen when Paul says the same thing as James.

Faith alone,not saved by works,for they have not received the Spirit yet,initially confessing Christ,receiving the Spirit a person is justified by works,and not faith alone.

A lover of KJV. Keep in mind that in 1611 charity meant love. This archaic languageis why I reject KJV.

1 Corinthians 13 NIV

13 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[b] but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues,they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

 

[TruthTalk]

So what....does not change the fact that eternal salvation is given by faith and faith alone....

Good morning decon, how do you explain to a person like, Endoscopy, that real Christians will have real fruit/works but that the works do not save you. Works/fruit are evidence "after salvation" Endoscopy cannot separate God's salvation from Works, why is that? A tree does not produce fruit for sometime many years, but the tree is not dead. How dense can an intelligent person be?

 

[joefizz]

A lover of KJV. Keep in mind that in 1611 charity meant love. This archaic languageis why I reject KJV.

1 Corinthians 13 NIV

13 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[b] but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues,they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Yep and I love Jesus's words "love doest thy neighbor no harm".

 

[joefizz]

Good morning decon, how do you explain to a person like, Endoscopy, that real Christians will have real fruit/works but that the works do not save you. Works/fruit are evidence "after salvation" Endoscopy cannot separate God's salvation from Works, why is that? A tree does not produce fruit for sometime many years, but the tree is not dead. How dense can an intelligent person be?

Well to explain to an intelligent person you'll have to beseech God/Jesus for that wisdom for we by ourselves can try to explain but the holy spirit teaches and opens doors of wisdom but the tough thing is "getting self out of the way" to be given that wisdom.

 

[Endoscopy]

Stupid short 5 minute rule!!! Too short when using an android tablet with chrome browser and have to first fix the problems that this site creates.

I tried to add I use NIV and AMPC.

Will the administrator tell everybody why this forum uses such a short time when other forums use 15 minutes. That is much more reasonable!!

Gee 3 posts interviened because of the 5 minute rule!!

 

[TruthTalk]

Thank you UnderGrace, God gave you intelligence and wisdom, twice blessed...

Works reveal faith not validate it.

There thats better.

 

[benhur]

AMEN!

Any one that argues with that BIBLICAL LOGIC, has a serious pride problem.


Romans 3:26-27 (NCV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And God gave Jesus to show today that he does what is right.
God did this so he could judge rightly and
so he could make right any person who has faith in Jesus.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]So do we have a reason to brag about ourselves? No! And why not?
It is the way of faith that stops all bragging,
not the way of trying to obey the law.


Proverbs 16:18-19 (HCSB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Pride comes before destruction, and an arrogant spirit before a fall.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Better to be lowly of spirit with the humble than to divide plunder with the proud.

You seem to believe what mailmandan says, but not me, why is that?

Here is his exact words that you believe in: James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead.

I believe that too. That is all I have ever said. If you have faith, but it is not accompanied by good works, it is dead faith. And I will add, unless you start doing good works, then your faith becomes active and alive. This is all I have said from the beginning. Where have I gone wrong in your eyes?

I will also say that if your faith remains dead, you will not enjoy salvation, no matter how much you say you believe in Jesus.

 

[Endoscopy]

Yep and I love Jesus's words "love doest thy neighbor no harm".

I always loved the love chapter sandwiched between two chapters on gifts of the Spirit. It goes to what is most important!!

 

[joefizz]

Stupid short 5 minute rule!!! Too short when using an android tablet with chrome browser and have to first fix the problems that this site creates.

I tried to add I use NIV and AMPC.

Will the administrator tell everybody why this forum uses such a short time when other forums use 15 minutes. That is much more reasonable!!

Gee 3 posts interviewed because of the 5 minute rule!!

Yeah I know that feeling I can't count how many times I have not been able to edit a bible discussion forum post but there is worse on here quite a few times I have a lost an "entire post" when responding to someone and especially irritating when it takes "alot of effort","could help someone in understanding" or is so very "accurate to the subject".

 

[TruthTalk]

Well to explain to an intelligent person you'll have to beseech God/Jesus for that wisdom for we by ourselves can try to explain but the holy spirit teaches and opens doors of wisdom but the tough thing is "getting self out of the way" to be given that wisdom.

Yes and thank you for explaining the difference, a lesson I have learned over and over but forget too quick.

 

[benhur]

Good morning decon, how do you explain to a person like, Endoscopy, that real Christians will have real fruit/works but that the works do not save you. Works/fruit are evidence "after salvation" Endoscopy cannot separate God's salvation from Works, why is that? A tree does not produce fruit for sometime many years, but the tree is not dead. How dense can an intelligent person be?

If you were a "real Christian" you would not use words like 'how dense can an intelligent person be'.

 

[benhur]

Thank you UnderGrace, God gave you intelligence and wisdom, twice blessed...



There thats better.

Tell us the difference between:
Works reveals faith
AND
Works validates faith

 

[TruthTalk]

If you were a "real Christian" you would not use words like 'how dense can an intelligent person be'.

If you were a real Christian you would not say "I am not a real Christian", go take out the log in your eye first. And I never said he was not a Christian, your way out of line.

 

[joefizz]

Yes and thank you for explaining the difference, a lesson I have learned over and over but forget too quick.

Yeah often because "pride" gets in the way because of course we all believe something and are "so sure of ourselves" that we can often not think about that we still have room to grow in spirit and wisdom and even then we still need God/Jesus's help through the Holy spirit to "not stray to the left nor to the right" from what we are supposed to say or do,honestly just think of people like Moses who strayed ever so slightly in comparison to the rest he did for God and God wouldn't allow him into the promised land.

 

[joefizz]

Yeah often because "pride" gets in the way because of course we all believe something and are "so sure of ourselves" that we can often not think about that we still have room to grow in spirit and wisdom and even then we still need God/Jesus's help through the Holy spirit to "not stray to the left nor to the right" from what we are supposed to say or do,honestly just think of people like Moses who strayed ever so slightly in comparison to the rest he did for God and God wouldn't allow him into the promised land.

And not to mention "aggravated nerves"!

 

[benhur]

Exactly one needs a body that is alive and doing things to see faith.

Works reveal faith not validate it.

It really is that simple, it is not about losing salvation

It is about losing salvation.

If your faith is never revealed by doing good works, it is dead. If your faith is never revealed, and remains dead until you are dead, you will not have salvation.

 

[TruthTalk]

]If you were a "real Christian"[/COLOR] you would not use words like 'how dense can an intelligent person be'.

Shame on you for calling me "not a Christian", just shameful.