Religion hides God knowledge with doctrines

[JaumeJ]

The written code kills. Only the Spirit gives life.

Many times a person will cut andpaste seemingly applicable texts from the Word without truly
having nor imparting the understanding from the Holy Spirit.

In the past when I have read the Word, I would read it from the first word of Genesis to the final Amen of Revelation. I practiced this until I could no longer read so well. However, in this manner the Bible was completely in context, yet without the Holy Spirit revealing the understanding I have yet to understand all of it, then no one does aside from theWord, Himself...Praise God and wait for the learning by the Holy Spirit, amen.

 

[JaumeJ]

PS......coming to think of it, any doctrine written down in order to support a denomination kills........

 

[OneFaith]

The doctrine of Christ (Bible) is the only doctrine to be used. It is finished, we are not to add or take away from it.

“They worship Me in vain- their doctrine is merely human rules.”

 

[FlSnookman7]

The doctrine of Christ (Bible) is the only doctrine to be used. It is finished, we are not to add or take away from it.

“They worship Me in vain- their doctrine is merely human rules.”

I am always stunned and a little saddened that almost everyone here I think would agree to this yet we always find so much to disagree on. He who makes us one is much greater than all our perceived differences.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Perhaps, but do you not agree that while those verses refer to a specific people at a specific time they also refer to almost all of us? That is one of the things I find so amazing about the Word. The Word crosses time, actually to say the Word is timeless is probably a better choice of words. God speaks to us through His Word because His Word is fitting not only for all time but for our specific circumstance.

How great is our God!

what I do not agree with and why I posted the meme, are people using the OT to justify their beliefs that God is all about His promises and they will point to OT verses, like the one in question, and then refuse to consider the part of the believer

I can't find one thing God has promised that does not require something on our part

even salvation...we have to ACCEPT it in order to be saved

more specifically, in response to what you asked, I absolutely believe God does have that in mind for every single person on earth or why would He have saved us in the first place? however He is specifically speaking to a nation that He personally called to represent Him and who had failed miserably...and yet God does not abandon them

do you not agree that while those verses refer to a specific people at a specific time they also refer to almost all of us?

no, I would not state that we can pick OT verses that really have no bearing on the individual and are meant specifically for a nation. however, God is just as faithful and just now as then

yes His word is eternal and all of it is given for our instruction etc as it says

but I don't believe it is correct to say 'claim' that verse or similar as though God wrote it just for the individual

context has more than a little value and I think and believe that an understanding of both testaments creates a greater appreciation of His promises and His vast love for His creation

 

[Nehemiah6]

The written code kills. Only the Spirit gives life.

At the same time the entire Word of God is a living Word. See Heb 4:12,13. So we need to keep that saying in proper context and understand why the letter "kills". It had a specific application and cannot be used to be applied as a blanket to Bible doctrines.

The title of this thread and the OP are misleading in many ways. The term "religion" has been misused and apparently applied to Bible Christianity. The term "doctrine" has been misused and misrepresented to claim that it "hides God's knowledge.

Bible-believing Christians understand that "the faith once delivered to the saints" consists of a body of doctrines -- Divine teachings, instructions, and revelations from God. The most important being "the doctrine of Christ". So to make a ludicrous statement about doctrines hiding the knowledge of God simply flies in the face of Bible truth.

 

[JaumeJ]

Only the Holy Spirit gives true understandiing and life to the written word.

Jesus Christ is the Wordand the Holy Spirit......He, only, gives life to th writings.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Only the Holy Spirit gives true understandiing and life to the written word.

Jesus Christ is the Wordand the Holy Spirit......He, only, gives life to th writings.

Which means that the letter only kills in a specific context, and you should have provided the context.

 

[FlSnookman7]

what I do not agree with and why I posted the meme, are people using the OT to justify their beliefs that God is all about His promises and they will point to OT verses, like the one in question, and then refuse to consider the part of the believer

I can't find one thing God has promised that does not require something on our part

even salvation...we have to ACCEPT it in order to be saved

more specifically, in response to what you asked, I absolutely believe God does have that in mind for every single person on earth or why would He have saved us in the first place? however He is specifically speaking to a nation that He personally called to represent Him and who had failed miserably...and yet God does not abandon them



no, I would not state that we can pick OT verses that really have no bearing on the individual and are meant specifically for a nation. however, God is just as faithful and just now as then

yes His word is eternal and all of it is given for our instruction etc as it says

but I don't believe it is correct to say 'claim' that verse or similar as though God wrote it just for the individual

context has more than a little value and I think and believe that an understanding of both testaments creates a greater appreciation of His promises and His vast love for His creation

I may have misspoke (miskeyed?), I agree with what you say except that I do believe God gave us the Word for each person individually and wants a relationship based on each of us uniquely. That verse and all the others was written to YOU personally, and Me personally. Ugh, i'm at work and it's busy LOL I will try and respond better and make more sense after a short break.

 

[JaumeJ]

It is not a good practice to direct others in their thinking without giving true understanding, this is the crux of the teaching of how the written code kiills without the Holy Spirit revealing all.

Which means that the letter only kills in a specific context, and you should have provided the context.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I may have misspoke (miskeyed?), I agree with what you say except that I do believe God gave us the Word for each person individually and wants a relationship based on each of us uniquely. That verse and all the others was written to YOU personally, and Me personally. Ugh, i'm at work and it's busy LOL I will try and respond better and make more sense after a short break.

2 Timothy 3:16-17

16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

so that is what the Bible says about itself

yes. God is personal towards us and each one can have a unique relationship with Him and in fact, as we see in scripture, He goes out of His way to make Himself known to people

not all scripture is written to us personally...unless you mean as in the verses I quoted above?

 

[garee]

Fo

rexample OSAS is based on biblical truths yet by insisting on putting God'struth into their own words they manage to distort the truth. Bible teachesthere is a wonderful thing that happens when God saves us and we receive Hisgrace. We are changed at that time. Bible teaches also a lot about obedienceand walking within the kingdom of God. In the bible it does not say one everwipes out the other. Our salvation is left to the Holy God in scripture, we arein charge of our walk. OSAS tries to hide this fact.

Trying to make OSAS not a biblical doctrine seems to be the focus.

Christ who has makeus new creatures is in charge of us walking by faith. OSAS reveals this facttaking away pride that comes before the fall.

If any man has not the incorruptible seed in them respect to the Spirit of Christ that does work in new creatures to both will and perform His good pleasure as we walk with him, then neither do they belong to Christ. No man will be found with a righteousness of their own self.

Pride still comes before the fall

 

[garee]

At the same time the entire Word of God is a living Word. See Heb 4:12,13. So we need to keep that saying in proper context and understand why the letter "kills". It had a specific application and cannot be used to be applied as a blanket to Bible doctrines.

The title of this thread and the OP are misleading in many ways. The term "religion" has been misused and apparently applied to Bible Christianity. The term "doctrine" has been misused and misrepresented to claim that it "hides God's knowledge.

Bible-believing Christians understand that "the faith once delivered to the saints" consists of a body of doctrines -- Divine teachings, instructions, and revelations from God. The most important being "the doctrine of Christ". So to make a ludicrous statement about doctrines hiding the knowledge of God simply flies in the face of Bible truth.

Thespiritual unseen understanding is hidden from the letter of the law as that whichwe read. It reveals the unseen eternal using the temporal things seen ....to akingdom of priests (the believer).

Remember without parables used to hide the spiritual understanding the author of the Bible spokenot. Search for that understanding as if for silver or gold. It falls from heaven like rain as hidden Manna as do all the doctrines of God.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

garee;3551353

Trying to make OSAS not a biblical doctrine seems to be the focus.

well, there really are at least 2 sides to that debate with team members seeming to be equally in numbers

the op is pretty general in his question. there is the OSAS 3000 thread for those who enjoy squabbling about it 24/7


Christ who has makeus new creatures is in charge of us walking by faith. OSAS reveals this facttaking away pride that comes before the fall.


I see no correlation between OSAS and pride. maybe you could put a little meat on those bones for everyone's better understanding? it almost seems as if you think the entire relationship sits square on the shoulders of Jesus while we bask in His light. do I understand that as you meant it?


If any man has not the incorruptible seed in them respect to the Spirit of Christ that does work in new creatures to both will and perform His good pleasure as we walk with him, then neither do they belong to Christ. No man will be found with a righteousness of their own self.

okay...but has anyone said they depend on their own righteousness for salvation in this thread?

maybe point it out because I just really don't have time to read the entire thing

Pride still comes before the fall

do you see that as a doctrine or a warning/instruction?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Thespiritual unseen understanding is hidden from the letter of the law as that whichwe read. It reveals the unseen eternal using the temporal things seen ....to akingdom of priests (the believer).

Remember without parables used to hide the spiritual understanding the author of the Bible spokenot. Search for that understanding as if for silver or gold. It falls from heaven like rain as hidden Manna as do all the doctrines of God.

I'm not getting what you say here either

since Jesus explained His parables and we can read that, how do you see understanding hidden?

I would disagree that we cannot see anything spiritual in the Law.

could you possibly explain what you posted using scripture so that it becomes clearer?

 

[JaumeJ]

Trampling on the Blood of the Lamb of God will cause some to loe what they thought they had. I advice any and all of them to repent, even though it says there is no more salvation for them.....repent and come back.

 

[Shamah]

I could go on and on about the church doctrines and how they obscure God's truth so often.

A commonly taughty and believed church doctrine that is false is the misunderstanding of what "born again" is.

Most believe that when they accept Messiah and He puts the Holy Spirit of YHWH upon us we are "born again" this is a confusing of "a new heart" and "born again"

This is born again;


1 Peter 1:3-9, “Blessed be the Strength and Father of our Master יהושע Messiah, who according to His great compassion has caused us to be born again to a living expectation through the resurrection of יהושע Messiah from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and unfading, having been kept in the heavens for you, who are protected by the power of Yah through belief, for a deliverance ready to be revealed in the last time, in which you exult, even though for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by manifold trials, in order that the proving of your belief – much more precious than gold that perishes, and proven by fire – might be found to result in praise and respect and esteem at the revelation of יהושע Messiah, whom having not seen, you love; in whom you exult with unspeakable and esteemed joy, yet not seeing, but believing, obtaining the goal of your belief: a deliverance of lives.”


1 Peter 1:23, “Having been begotten, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of Yah, which lives and remains forever.”


1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”

what most people consider born again is actually this (a renewed Spirit, His Spirit upon us);

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

Ezekiel 36:26-28, "A new heart, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

Ezekiel 11:19-21, “And I shall give them one heart, and put a new spirit within you. And I shall take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, so that they walk in My laws, and guard My right-rulings, and shall do them. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength. But to those whose hearts walk after the heart of their disgusting matters and their abominations, I shall recompense their deeds on their own heads,” declares the Master יהוה.”

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”


Luke 21:28, “Now when these things begin to take place, straighten up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”


Mat 24:21-22, “For then will be great tribulation, such as has not come to pass since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever will be. And unless those days were shortened, there would no flesh be saved; but for the elect's sake, those days will be shortened.”


Mat:29-31, "Immediately, but after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven; and then will all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His malakim with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of earth to the other."


The second birth or being reborn is in reality receiving a spirit body that is eternal in incorruptible, as shown above. What most people think is as being born again is actually being given a new heart;


2 Corinthians 1:22, “Who also sealed us, and gave the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge."


Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."


Jeremiah 24:7, “And I shall give them a heart to know Me, that I am יהוה. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength, for they shall turn back to Me with all their heart.”

 

[Nehemiah6]

The spiritual unseen understanding is hidden from the letter of the law as that which we read.

We should not be resorting to such mysticism when the Bible is meant to "make wise the simple". Therefore here is what Paul said: Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech (2 Cor 3:12).

The Lord Jesus Christ used great plainness of speech even when presenting profound truths. And certainly, it is the Holy Spirit who teaches believers since He is the Divine Teacher, but again it is plain, simple, clear, understandable, not mystical mumbo-jumbo which can be made to mean whatever a person wants.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Most believe that when they accept Messiah and He puts the Holy Spirit of YHWH upon us we are "born again" this is a confusing of "a new heart" and "born again"

He puts the Holy Spirit WITHIN us, not simply "upon us". And a new heart, a new spirit, a new birth, a new creature in Christ, all pertain to the same thing. SUPERNATURAL REGENERATION BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST. Salvation is multi-faceted and includes justification, forgiveness of sins, the new birth, a new position in God and Christ, the indwelling Holy Spirit, the gift of eternal life, the power to overcome the world, the flesh, and the Devil, and many other things. All of this is a part of the New Birth -- being born again, born from above, born of the Spirit, born of God.

 

[Johnny_B]

Of course. With a doubt. Why would anyone even ask such a question in the light of Scripture?

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (John 1:29)

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2).

We could add dozens of Scriptures to these.

Nehemiah6 does "world" here mean "world" in John 18:20 the same way as John 1:29 and I John 2:2? John used "kosmos" in all three verses, so by your interpetation of the word "world" or the Greek word "kosmos" Jesus spoke to the world. This is another time where Jewish culture comes into play, the Jews thought that salvation was for the Jews only and not for the rest of the world or all people groups. This is a better interpretation of the word "world" or the Greek word "kosmos" in this context.

John 18:20 “Jesus answered him, “I have spoken openly to the world. I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all Jews come together. I have said nothing in secret.”

Acts 2:39 “For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”

Revelation 5:9-10 “And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomJohn 18:20 “Jesus answered him, “I have spoken openly to the world. I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all Jews come together. I have said nothing in secret.”ed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation, 10and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.”

Revelation 7:9-10 “After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”

Revelation 13:7-8 “Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, 8and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.”

Revelation 14:6-7 “Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people. 7And he said with a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come, and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.”

Here's where doctrine can cause us to translate a word to fit our doctrine, in this context the word "world" or the Greek word "kosmos" is the same as what Acts 2:29, Revelation 5:9, 7:9, 13:7 and 14:6. If indeed the word "world" or "kosmos" means everyone in the world, which you have interpreted to mean that the Father laid the sin of every person in the world on Jesus. That would make the Father an unjust judge and we know that the Father is not unjust, He is a just judge, righteous and up right in all His ways.

John 18:20 is an interesting verse, not only does Jesus say that He spoke to the world, but He also says that all Jews come together here. According to your interpretation Jesus spoke to the world openly or every person that lived at that time.

What I would like to know as well is, does "all" mean every single Jew came together there?