The mystery of the 7 candlesticks and the 7 stars.

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W

wakeup

Banned
#1
Feb 14, 2011
1,783
4
0
#1
revelation1:20.The mystery of the 7stars which thou sawest in my right hand,and the7candlesticks. The7 stars are the angels of the 7churches:and the7 candlesticks which thou sawest are the 7churches:
where are the seven churches today? these literal 7churches did exist back then in asia minor. but where are they today? these churches are here today, but they are not 7literal churches,they are7diferent levels of churches,some are dying,some are about to die,some are just surviving,some are just steady,some are doing very well materially,but blind spiritually; this is the case with the 7th church:the church of laodicia.
rev.3:17.because thou sayest,i am rich,and increased with goods,and have need of nothing: and knowest not that thou art wretched,miserable,and poor , and blind, and naked(no knowledge).(no covering)(like adam and eve).
v.18. i counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire,that thou may be rich: and white raiment,that thou may be clothed,and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear: and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve,that thou mayest see.

now what about the 7angels? did GOD rebuke 7 literal angels? no.
the mystery of the 7angels: are the 7flames that are burning; they all are different in strength. in other words,(angels are messengers) the 7messages of the churches,every one their own quality of preaching.this is the mystery of the 7candlesticks and the 7stars. i think we should all dig deep in knowledge,and forget the quibbling: correcting using scripture, yes. thank you brothers, may God bless you all.

''wakeup.''
 
G

Gentile

Guest
#2
#2
Walking in the midst of the golden candlesticks, Jesus is demonstrating that he will be God to each of the pure Christian churches, and will not change (Hebrews 13:8). He identifies himself by different attributes in each of these ages, but he is still the same God, the Alpha and Omega, and everything in between.

The Seven Church Ages..

...What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus 53-170 , and unto Smyrna 170-312, and unto Pergamos 312-606, and unto Thyatira 606-1520, and unto Sardis 1520-1750, and unto Philadelphia 1750-1906, and unto Laodicea 1906-.
 
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Scotth1960

Guest
#3
#3
wakeup said:
revelation1:20.The mystery of the 7stars which thou sawest in my right hand,and the7candlesticks. The7 stars are the angels of the 7churches:and the7 candlesticks which thou sawest are the 7churches:
where are the seven churches today? these literal 7churches did exist back then in asia minor. but where are they today? these churches are here today, but they are not 7literal churches,they are7diferent levels of churches,some are dying,some are about to die,some are just surviving,some are just steady,some are doing very well materially,but blind spiritually; this is the case with the 7th church:the church of laodicia.
rev.3:17.because thou sayest,i am rich,and increased with goods,and have need of nothing: and knowest not that thou art wretched,miserable,and poor , and blind, and naked(no knowledge).(no covering)(like adam and eve).
v.18. i counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire,that thou may be rich: and white raiment,that thou may be clothed,and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear: and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve,that thou mayest see.

now what about the 7angels? did GOD rebuke 7 literal angels? no.
the mystery of the 7angels: are the 7flames that are burning; they all are different in strength. in other words,(angels are messengers) the 7messages of the churches,every one their own quality of preaching.this is the mystery of the 7candlesticks and the 7stars. i think we should all dig deep in knowledge,and forget the quibbling: correcting using scripture, yes. thank you brothers, may God bless you all.

''wakeup.''
Click to expand...
These were 7 ancient churches. That don't exist any more. We should not attempt nor think that they continued in history in the various groups that call themselves churches. That is twisting the scriptures a bit. What is known is they were in Asia minor. It's against common sense to try to apply them to seven so called ages of "church history". That's the dispensationalist error, and dispensationalism has been proven false, to my satisfaction. In Erie Scott R. Harrington

 
G

Gentile

Guest
#4
#4
Who are the angels of the seven churches? in Rev1.v20
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#5
#5
now what about the 7angels? did GOD rebuke 7 literal angels? no.
the mystery of the 7angels: are the 7flames that are burning; they all are different in strength. in other words,(angels are messengers) the 7messages of the churches,every one their own quality of preaching.this is the mystery of the 7candlesticks and the 7stars. i think we should all dig deep in knowledge,and forget the quibbling: correcting using scripture, yes. thank you brothers, may God bless you all.

''wakeup.''

Pray to God for the truth of this.

there is STARS and LAMP STANDS.

you are mixing the two. the stars watch the lamps, the stars exist in the SPIRITUAL world and you need to be GIFTED by the Holy Spirit for SPIRITUAL EYES of Discernment of Spirits.

if it is not literal then what is it? if you don't take this verse literal then should we not take the other verse in a similar manner? hmmm????

do you really want to open that door and invite the spirit knocking on that window in? because though it looks shiny and "holy" it is not.

It is not figurative the seven Angels exist. How many continents/territories are there in the earth?

N. America, S. America (central divided between the two), Europe, N. Asia, S. Asia, Africa, Austrulia (spelling is off but don't have time to look it up)

I'll match it up with each angel and candlestick for you later, but you get the general idea. Got to go teach some high school kids science lol

Have a blessed day and remember to SMILE and PRaise GOD. Blessings to all my brothers and sisters in Christ.
 
W

wakeup

Banned
#6
Feb 14, 2011
1,783
4
0
#6
Gentile said:
Who are the angels of the seven churches? in Rev1.v20
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did you read my thread ''gentile?
i explained that the angels are the 7 spirits of the churches.
the 7flames of the candles:some are very dim, some are just burning a small flame, some burning well, some are dead.

''wakeup''.
 
G

Gentile

Guest
#7
#7
In the first chapter of the book of Revelation, Jesus tells John that the seven stars are the seven angels of the seven churches, and the seven candlesticks are the seven churches. The book of Revelation is a prophecy (Revelation 1:3), and both the candlestick and the stars are part of that prophecy.

Being in the right hand of Jesus Christ, these angels have His power, authority, and influence on Church history. Walking in the midst of the golden candlesticks, Jesus is demonstrating that he will be God to each of the pure Christian churches, and will not change (Hebrews 13:8).

Yes WakeUp I did read it. I should have stated that my question was for Scotth1960. Thanks for you reply God Bless.

Did Paul the Apostle established the church at Ephesus ? This question to all welcomed.

God Bless.
 
S

stone

Banned
#8
Mar 22, 2011
386
1
0
#8
GENTILE YOU ARE SERIOUS THATS WHAT I BELIEVE. MAY THE LORD CONTINUALLY GUIDE U
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#9
#9
Many things back up the fact that the seven churches represent the history of the church.

It would be hard to know this in the time of John. But if we look at history. we can easily see how each church represented a time in Christ history. even up to today. The final church is the scary one..
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#10
#10
wakeup said:
revelation1:20.The mystery of the 7stars which thou sawest in my right hand,and the7candlesticks. The7 stars are the angels of the 7churches:and the7 candlesticks which thou sawest are the 7churches:
where are the seven churches today? these literal 7churches did exist back then in asia minor. but where are they today? these churches are here today, but they are not 7literal churches,they are7diferent levels of churches,some are dying,some are about to die,some are just surviving,some are just steady,some are doing very well materially,but blind spiritually; this is the case with the 7th church:the church of laodicia.
rev.3:17.because thou sayest,i am rich,and increased with goods,and have need of nothing: and knowest not that thou art wretched,miserable,and poor , and blind, and naked(no knowledge).(no covering)(like adam and eve).
v.18. i counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire,that thou may be rich: and white raiment,that thou may be clothed,and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear: and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve,that thou mayest see.

now what about the 7angels? did GOD rebuke 7 literal angels? no.
the mystery of the 7angels: are the 7flames that are burning; they all are different in strength. in other words,(angels are messengers) the 7messages of the churches,every one their own quality of preaching.this is the mystery of the 7candlesticks and the 7stars. i think we should all dig deep in knowledge,and forget the quibbling: correcting using scripture, yes. thank you brothers, may God bless you all.

''wakeup.''
Click to expand...

Friend,

Myth of the Seven Church Ages

"A Refutation of William Marion Branham" (regarding The Seven Church Ages)

January 19, 2009 by Ken Jacobsen


A Refutation of William Marrion Branham


Take care.

In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 
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Scotth1960

Guest
#12
#12
eternally-gratefull said:
Hmm, lets follow men, and Not god.
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Those who teach "seven church ages" teach the doctrine of men, and not the doctrine of God. These letters in the book of Revelation to the 7 churches were for seven churches in ancient Asia, and not for all of Church history. Take care.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#13
#13
Scotth1960 said:

Those who teach "seven church ages" teach the doctrine of men, and not the doctrine of God. These letters in the book of Revelation to the 7 churches were for seven churches in ancient Asia, and not for all of Church history. Take care.
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Ok. You have given us your opinion. And you state we are wrong. And you are not backing your assirtions, just stating we are wrong. and you direct us to another man you think ptoves us wrong.

That is following men, not letting us know why you realy think that way and proving it.
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#14
#14
eternally-gratefull said:
Ok. You have given us your opinion. And you state we are wrong. And you are not backing your assirtions, just stating we are wrong. and you direct us to another man you think ptoves us wrong.

That is following men, not letting us know why you realy think that way and proving it.
Click to expand...
I don't think anything different from what I am told a Christian should believe.
I grew up on the nonsense of Tim LaHaye and Hal Lindsey, and they treat the book of Revelation like fiction. As evidence in LaHaye and Jenkin's "Left Behind" series of fictional books. These books are so bad, they don't even merit refuting, yet some people tend to read them as if they are Gospel truth. His actual exposition of Revelation is not much better, and is fictional (false), too.
It is not only the Orthodox Church that believes it. Christians from the Reformed tradition also reject dispensationalism. See Bahsen and Gentry's book "House Divided: The Break Up of Dispensational Theology".
I think if you read the book of Revelation, unaided by dispensationalist commentators like C.I. Scofield and Clarence Larkin and John Fr. Walvoord and Tim LaHaye and Hal Lindsey, you find these letters were to seven ancient churches. There's nothing in the text which says these things would come to pass centuries later. Revelation says these things happen "soon" and "quickly", that is, in John's own days and times, while he was writing Revelation, these things were already going on in the churches of Asia minor. No fancy interpretations.
Proof of this? It depends on whose word you trust? Do you trust men who say these are seven church ages, and you believe that just because they say so? Then, you are following men.
What did the early Church say about these things? If you can't find an answer to this, suspend judgment, and leave the question unanswered until you get a valid interpretation of Revelation 1, 2, and 3.
For more: Archbishop Averky of Jordanville. The Apocalypse: An Orthodox Commentary. Translated from the Russian by Fr. Seraphim Rose. Platina, CA: St. Herman of Alaska Brotherhood 1985/ Valaam Society of America.
Read Archbishop Averky's book for a more sane view of Revelation 1, 2, and 3. Nothing sensationalistic there. Just seven ancient churches. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#15
#15
Scotth1960 said:
I don't think anything different from what I am told a Christian should believe.
I grew up on the nonsense of Tim LaHaye and Hal Lindsey, and they treat the book of Revelation like fiction. As evidence in LaHaye and Jenkin's "Left Behind" series of fictional books. These books are so bad, they don't even merit refuting, yet some people tend to read them as if they are Gospel truth. His actual exposition of Revelation is not much better, and is fictional (false), too.
It is not only the Orthodox Church that believes it. Christians from the Reformed tradition also reject dispensationalism. See Bahsen and Gentry's book "House Divided: The Break Up of Dispensational Theology".
I think if you read the book of Revelation, unaided by dispensationalist commentators like C.I. Scofield and Clarence Larkin and John Fr. Walvoord and Tim LaHaye and Hal Lindsey, you find these letters were to seven ancient churches. There's nothing in the text which says these things would come to pass centuries later. Revelation says these things happen "soon" and "quickly", that is, in John's own days and times, while he was writing Revelation, these things were already going on in the churches of Asia minor. No fancy interpretations.
Proof of this? It depends on whose word you trust? Do you trust men who say these are seven church ages, and you believe that just because they say so? Then, you are following men.
What did the early Church say about these things? If you can't find an answer to this, suspend judgment, and leave the question unanswered until you get a valid interpretation of Revelation 1, 2, and 3.
For more: Archbishop Averky of Jordanville. The Apocalypse: An Orthodox Commentary. Translated from the Russian by Fr. Seraphim Rose. Platina, CA: St. Herman of Alaska Brotherhood 1985/ Valaam Society of America.
Read Archbishop Averky's book for a more sane view of Revelation 1, 2, and 3. Nothing sensationalistic there. Just seven ancient churches. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
Click to expand...

See what I mean scott, You worry me, You never want to discuss issues. Your whole basis for your believe is "the early church (men)

I do not believe men just because they say it. I believe it because I have studied what they say and found them to make sense biblically, or I studied myself and came to the same conclusion they did.

And I have not told you where I came up with this belief, only to say it was non of the men you mentioned.

Yet you don't want to discuss passages, like why a gate would be used offensively. You want to always point back to men (the early church)
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#16
#16
wakeup said:
revelation1:20.The mystery of the 7stars which thou sawest in my right hand,and the7candlesticks. The7 stars are the angels of the 7churches:and the7 candlesticks which thou sawest are the 7churches:
where are the seven churches today? these literal 7churches did exist back then in asia minor. but where are they today? these churches are here today, but they are not 7literal churches,they are7diferent levels of churches,some are dying,some are about to die,some are just surviving,some are just steady,some are doing very well materially,but blind spiritually; this is the case with the 7th church:the church of laodicia.
rev.3:17.because thou sayest,i am rich,and increased with goods,and have need of nothing: and knowest not that thou art wretched,miserable,and poor , and blind, and naked(no knowledge).(no covering)(like adam and eve).
v.18. i counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire,that thou may be rich: and white raiment,that thou may be clothed,and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear: and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve,that thou mayest see.

now what about the 7angels? did GOD rebuke 7 literal angels? no.
the mystery of the 7angels: are the 7flames that are burning; they all are different in strength. in other words,(angels are messengers) the 7messages of the churches,every one their own quality of preaching.this is the mystery of the 7candlesticks and the 7stars. i think we should all dig deep in knowledge,and forget the quibbling: correcting using scripture, yes. thank you brothers, may God bless you all.

''wakeup.''
Click to expand...
Friend, What is needed is objective Bible teaching.
Here's a good refutation of seven church ages:

"Lies of Satan: Church Ages and Immenence"

http:// endtimeproof.org/?page_id=762

Take care.

The fact that a book is fictionalized shows we should not lend much credibility

to dispensationalist views of the book of Revelation. Revelation is a holy and a sacred

book of God, sealed up for the end times. It should not be used to make money selling

slick, sensationalistic Hollywood movies and a series of children's books (for God's sake!

Lord have mercy on the little children poisoned by this end-time error!).

The Left Behind series of books, with LaHaye's theory of seven church ages, has

left the truth and the rest of the Bible behind. It clearly shows in Matthew 24 that

the resurrection of the Christian dead is after the tribulation of those days.

In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 
S

stone

Banned
#17
Mar 22, 2011
386
1
0
#17
what did PAUL SAY ABOUT FOLLOWING; HE SAID FOLLOW ME AS I FOLLOW CHRIST . HE POINTED THE PEOPLE TO JESUS. THEY NEVER FOLLOWED HIM LITERALLY BUT RECIEVED HIS MESSAGE HE PREACHED
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#18
#18
eternally-gratefull said:
See what I mean scott, You worry me, You never want to discuss issues. Your whole basis for your believe is "the early church (men)

I do not believe men just because they say it. I believe it because I have studied what they say and found them to make sense biblically, or I studied myself and came to the same conclusion they did.

And I have not told you where I came up with this belief, only to say it was non of the men you mentioned.

Yet you don't want to discuss passages, like why a gate would be used offensively. You want to always point back to men (the early church)
Click to expand...
Friend, Why wouldn't the early church know better than later men what Revelation 1, 2, and 3 mean? You can find the meaning of Revelation in the very first verse. No interpretation of men. No twisting Scriptures.
"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants -- things which must shortly take place" (REVELATION 1:1 NKJV).
THINGS WHICH MUST SHORTLY TAKE PLACE? WHEN DID THEY TAKE PLACE? SHORTLY. WHAT DOES SHORTLY MEAN? IN THE VERY DAYS AFTER THIS BOOK WAS WRITTEN. WHEN WAS THIS BOOK OF REVELATION WRITTEN? IN THE 60S AD. WHEN DID THIS THINGS COME TO FULFILLMENT, IN 70 AD, WITH THE DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM AND THE JEWISH TEMPLE BY THE ROMANS. WHEN JOHN WROTE THIS BOOK OF REVELATION, THE TEMPLE WAS STILL STANDING. SEE REVELATION 11:1-3.
NO ROOM FOR DISPENSATIONALISM HERE. JUST THE PLAIN SENSE OF THE SCRIPTURES. ANY ONE WHO CAN READ WITHOUT PRESUPPOSITIONS OF "FUTURE FULFILLMENT" FOR THESE THINGS SEE THAT AT LEAST SOME OF REVELATION HAS ALREADY BEEN FULFILLED. WHETHER OR NOT SOME OF IT IS IN THE FUTURE TOO, HAS NOT BEEN FINALLY ESTABLISHED. POSSIBLY. BUT NOT FOR CERTAIN. ONLY GOD KNOWS THE FUTURE. IN ERIE PA SCOTT R. HARRINGTON
 
S

stone

Banned
#19
Mar 22, 2011
386
1
0
#19
SCOTTH SPEAK TO YOUR PASTOR. QUICK
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#20
#20
Scotth1960 said:
Friend, Why wouldn't the early church know better than later men what Revelation 1, 2, and 3 mean? You can find the meaning of Revelation in the very first verse. No interpretation of men. No twisting Scriptures.
"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants -- things which must shortly take place" (REVELATION 1:1 NKJV).
THINGS WHICH MUST SHORTLY TAKE PLACE? WHEN DID THEY TAKE PLACE? SHORTLY. WHAT DOES SHORTLY MEAN? IN THE VERY DAYS AFTER THIS BOOK WAS WRITTEN. WHEN WAS THIS BOOK OF REVELATION WRITTEN? IN THE 60S AD. WHEN DID THIS THINGS COME TO FULFILLMENT, IN 70 AD, WITH THE DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM AND THE JEWISH TEMPLE BY THE ROMANS. WHEN JOHN WROTE THIS BOOK OF REVELATION, THE TEMPLE WAS STILL STANDING. SEE REVELATION 11:1-3.
NO ROOM FOR DISPENSATIONALISM HERE. JUST THE PLAIN SENSE OF THE SCRIPTURES. ANY ONE WHO CAN READ WITHOUT PRESUPPOSITIONS OF "FUTURE FULFILLMENT" FOR THESE THINGS SEE THAT AT LEAST SOME OF REVELATION HAS ALREADY BEEN FULFILLED. WHETHER OR NOT SOME OF IT IS IN THE FUTURE TOO, HAS NOT BEEN FINALLY ESTABLISHED. POSSIBLY. BUT NOT FOR CERTAIN. ONLY GOD KNOWS THE FUTURE. IN ERIE PA SCOTT R. HARRINGTON
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My friend the early church is men.

I am a part of the church today. Which means this letter was written to me also. It is written to the church until the church dies. So why is it impossible to believe Jesus used the 7 literal churches in that day to show the history of the church? since it was written to ALL the church.

Look at thew first Church. It completely resembles the church in the apostolic age.

Look at the last church. They are not even a real church. They are a church which God said he will "SPIT THEM OUT" which means there is no one who is saved in that church period. does that look like the church in the days of revelation. or like the final apostate church in the world system?

Not to mention if these are 7 literal churches it destroys your theory of "one church since the beginning" because here are 7 different churches. we could easily call them 7 denominations. Proving the church has not been one since the apostles.

either way you translate it. the doctrines of men you follow are shown to be in error. and your listening to men, not the word of God.

 
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